The True God...

[Advaik]

I was reading some old Chinese I-Ching books and it states that there is a God, but this God is not a being like most assume. God is a mathematical equation which is responsible for the creation of the universe. From this single equation comes our past, present, and future. If this equation were ever found we would hold the power of the universe.

Now I am not very much into the Bible, but I know alot about it and nothing in it actually contradicts this. You have to use your imagination, but if you read the Bible trying to keep this in mind, it all makes perfect sense. It pretty much rules out all the miracle crap that religions will have you believing it.

God created the world in 7 days. Well sure. Light was not created at first, without light time does not exsist. Without time those 7 days could have been in infinite number of years. The way the world was formed was by a mathematical equation or law, not by the hand of a miraculous being.

The sun, the stars, the moon, the planets, everything revolves around this equation thus everything about the world is predetermined. This equation is God.

(Btw I am not saying this equation is some little thing like mc = e3 it's a HUGE ass equation probably take the entire worlds population of trees to print it.)

What do you all think? Yes I am quite psychotic for those wondering...

 

[HappyScrappy]

Wolfram would say that equation is only a few lines long.

There is also something similar in the Judaism faith (I think the movie Pi references this).

the best part are the people that say this is silly and could never be - yet the idea of a supreme physical being, now that makes total sense.
lol.

 

[WIDELAT]

YEAH I THINK GOD USED SCIENCE TO CREATE THE EARTH. HE IS THE ULTIMATE MATHMATICIAN.

 

[HappyScrappy]

also, the idea that it would be a complicated function is unlikely - there are many examples that show small and simple functions leading to infinite complexity - so there is need for the function itself to be complex.

 

[Advaik]

also, the idea that it would be a complicated function is unlikely - there are many examples that show small and simple functions leading to infinite complexity - so there is need for the function itself to be complex.

That's true, but to me it seems like if it's gonna tell how everything in the universe, which is gawd knows how big, functions, then it would be quite large. But who knows, maybe it is as simple as e = mc3 (damn I hope I got this equation right this time, I slept through psychics )

 

[HappyScrappy]

lol - it is e = mc^2
energy equals mass times the speed of light squared.
close though.

(the lmao above isn't for you btw)

you don't need an infinitely complex function to describe infinitely complex behavior - so while it is possible that it is large - it is far more likely that it is relatively simple - were it to exist.

read up on Wolfram - he just published a new book on this.

 

[b fold the truth]

I can't say that I believe in God because he is proven to me, or because of a book, or because the preacher says so, or because of the Bible. I can't say why I believe...but deep inside I just do.

B True

 

[plornive]

I would say you just described pantheism. (assuming a mathematical function can be created to model ANY kind of behavior).

Most peoples' beliefs are consistent with pantheism. What distinguishes them is if and how their beliefs are more specific and if and how they integrate their beliefs into their lives.

Christianity and Buddhism seem to both be consistent with pantheism, but are not consistent with each other, IMO. Also, a pantheist may be non-religious by society's definition --- I am a pantheist and an atheist, because atheism is defined in the context of society's and Webster's Dictionary's definitions of religion.

 

[plornive]

lol - it is e = mc^2
energy equals mass times the speed of light squared.
close though.

(the lmao above isn't for you btw)

you don't need an infinitely complex function to describe infinitely complex behavior - so while it is possible that it is large - it is far more likely that it is relatively simple - were it to exist.

read up on Wolfram - he just published a new book on this.

How about that function that dexcribes an oscillating curve with oscillations that are infinitely close together?

 

[saint808]

i suggest a book called "the physics of immortality" by frank tipler... interesting theory on a mathematical approach to god... after reading it i can see some of it and i still have doubts... who knows really...

oh wait i am a musclehead... i meant to say...

i like pork.

 

[rotovibe]

So you're saying that material existance derived from a mathmatical equation?
I guess that could adequately answer for the existance of all things.
How does it explain conciousness? Or love?
Where did it come from and how did it come to being?
Math is great and can explain a lot of things but you can't explain existance without philosophy. How does this theory explain philosophical questions? I'm interested to know...really

What's wolframs book called?

I was just about to say the pantheism slant too

 

[HappyScrappy]

How about that function that dexcribes an oscillating curve with oscillations that are infinitely close together?

lol - if you follow the link from that image it is a fun site.
the animated life examples they have are fun to (assuming you are referring to my sig)

 

[HappyScrappy]

So you're saying that material existance derived from a mathmatical equation?
I guess that could adequately answer for the existance of all things.
How does it explain conciousness? Or love?
Where did it come from and how did it come to being?
Math is great and can explain a lot of things but you can't explain existance without philosophy. How does this theory explain philosophical questions? I'm interested to know...really

What's wolframs book called?

naming constructs in your mind are just that.

as for Wolfram:
http://www.wolfram.com/
and
http://www.wolframscience.com/

 

[Needhelp]

I was reading some old Chinese I-Ching books and it states that there is a God, but this God is not a being like most assume. God is a mathematical equation which is responsible for the creation of the universe. From this single equation comes our past, present, and future. If this equation were ever found we would hold the power of the universe.

Now I am not very much into the Bible, but I know alot about it and nothing in it actually contradicts this. You have to use your imagination, but if you read the Bible trying to keep this in mind, it all makes perfect sense. It pretty much rules out all the miracle crap that religions will have you believing it.

God created the world in 7 days. Well sure. Light was not created at first, without light time does not exsist. Without time those 7 days could have been in infinite number of years. The way the world was formed was by a mathematical equation or law, not by the hand of a miraculous being.

The sun, the stars, the moon, the planets, everything revolves around this equation thus everything about the world is predetermined. This equation is God.

(Btw I am not saying this equation is some little thing like mc = e3 it's a HUGE ass equation probably take the entire worlds population of trees to print it.)

What do you all think? Yes I am quite psychotic for those wondering...

Interesting...

 

[Warik]

Any belief whatsoever in freedom of choice should immediately eliminate any belief for a function that describes the universe. If such a function does exist, it would suggest that free will does not exist, unless the function produces varying results based on whatever one's "free will" inputs at a giving time. But then again, it wouldn't be too simple in that case.

That sucks and stuff.

-Warik

 

[HappyScrappy]

exactly - and this is one of the many reasons everyone is pissed off at Wolfram.
it may very well be the next cold fusion mistake in science, but for now, it is causing quite a stir and is so much fun to ponder.

it wouldn't say that there is a fixed end, it is just reacting to things that happen - but those things happen due to that function, etc etc...

Any belief whatsoever in freedom of choice should immediately eliminate any belief for a function that describes the universe. If such a function does exist, it would suggest that free will does not exist, unless the function produces varying results based on whatever one's "free will" inputs at a giving time. But then again, it wouldn't be too simple in that case.

That sucks and stuff.

-Warik

 

[plornive]

So you're saying that material existance derived from a mathmatical equation?
I guess that could adequately answer for the existance of all things.
How does it explain conciousness? Or love?
Where did it come from and how did it come to being?
Math is great and can explain a lot of things but you can't explain existance without philosophy. How does this theory explain philosophical questions? I'm interested to know...really

What's wolframs book called?

I was just about to say the pantheism slant too

Not arguing, but I just want to tell you how I look at consciousness:
Like anything else, such as the piece of paper sitting on my desk or the air I breath. Maybe it can be modelled mathematically.

 

[plornive]

I was just about to say the pantheism slant too

I was thinking about it more (while I was supposed to be working) and I couldn't figure out if the mathematical definition thing was necessarily deterministic. That is the main form of specificity within pantheism that I can think of.

 

[rotovibe]

a combined force and laws or formulas which are manifested in the existing universe is what I was thinking.
To me it seems pantheistic.
Free will is always a catch...I'll definitley read Wolfram though. looks like a good read.

 

[Advaik]

That freewill thing is interesting. In I-Ching it teachs you how to read the future using a series of mathematical equations (I tried learning it once but this shits harder than calculas, theres ALOT of things you need to remember). It never tells you the exact future, it always gives a vague image of it.

Now if we know the future, we should be able to change it, right? Well once incident I read a women had her I-Ching reading and the I-Ching Master told her not to go SW in a certain month because she would be killed. Sure enough the women went SW to a different country on a business trip and was killed in an accident. She must have known that was going to happen, she threw down $100 for a reading but didnt listen to it. Kind of makes me wonder if we really have a freewill or if everythings already laid out and there is no way to change it.

Like a wise man once said, everything happens for a reason.

 

[plornive]

That freewill thing is interesting. In I-Ching it teachs you how to read the future using a series of mathematical equations (I tried learning it once but this shits harder than calculas, theres ALOT of things you need to remember). It never tells you the exact future, it always gives a vague image of it.

Now if we know the future, we should be able to change it, right? Well once incident I read a women had her I-Ching reading and the I-Ching Master told her not to go SW in a certain month because she would be killed. Sure enough the women went SW to a different country on a business trip and was killed in an accident. She must have known that was going to happen, she threw down $100 for a reading but didnt listen to it. Kind of makes me wonder if we really have a freewill or if everythings already laid out and there is no way to change it.

Like a wise man once said, everything happens for a reason.

So I guess the mathamatical formulas are supposed to describe limits and boundaries around a set of possibilities for the future?

 

[plornive]

Any mathematicians on here? Could some kind of differential equation describing an inverse exponential function be used? Is that possible, and could it be random?

 

[Advaik]

Pretty much, the stuff I read about God being a mathematical equation wasn't really I-Ching, it was just explaining how everything is related to math and how I-Ching works.

It takes years to master I-Ching. It's pretty much a table of numbers, dates, astronomical signs, and elements. What happens is one table creates another table then the tables cancel eachother out until there is only one equation left which will set boundaries for the future. It's pretty neat, I've seen it done, but you gotta know what cancels out what, how to create the tables, what happens when combos strike (one thing cancels out more than one in the other table) etc. Complicated

 

[rotovibe]

card reading sounds easier to me...
I wonder how probability plays in to these equations. Can't they probably cancel themselves out and seem logical or have a seemingly logical end?

 

[HappyScrappy]

sounds like Hari Seldon (the Foundation series)

 

[rotovibe]

http://www.aquarianage.org/china/iching/

 

[Advaik]

that site just gives you the two tables, it doesnt do the math though. They dont have a program that actually does the math because there are too many variables, would take a freaking genius to program it.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I worked on an art project with Constance DeJong (sp?) and Tony Oursler for a multimedia cd through the Dia center in NYC.
on that cd, there was a thing by her where you could walk into a phone booth and dial the number and there would be an IChing calculation based on that.

 

[Warik]

exactly - and this is one of the many reasons everyone is pissed off at Wolfram.
it may very well be the next cold fusion mistake in science, but for now, it is causing quite a stir and is so much fun to ponder.

it wouldn't say that there is a fixed end, it is just reacting to things that happen - but those things happen due to that function, etc etc...

The other funny thing is that we run into a problem similar to Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle. We can't know the speed and position of a particle simultaneously because we alter one or the other just by figuring out one of them. So what about this universe formula? If we input someone's "free will" to get information, don't we already effect that information because our "free will" decision to calculate something will effect the true output of the function that was supposed to come after accounting for what we just did.

Then again, if the universe supposedly came to be from a large explosion billions of years ago, and all matter remains in motion unless influenced by an outside force, then how do people, who consist of matter, have free will?

That's where my belief in God comes in... but that's a whole other thread.

-Warik

 

[Needhelp]

Really interesting stuff..

Anyone recommend some good books about Physics, the universe, God, and related things? Really interesting.

 

[biteme]

God just likes to fuck with us. If he wanted he could reveal himself in an instant. He likes to look down on us in amusement at all the stupid shit that we do. BTW, the #'s 8 and 24 are invoved in this equation.