The Reason for BET

[2Thick]

This post also covers the NAACP and other such groups.

Many people see BET as somehow racist. This is mainly because something called White Entertainment Television (WET) would sound racist if it existed. BET and WET are two totally different things, and cannot be compared for one simple reason.

The main reason why such societies and networks exist is because black people are the minority (both in population and in economically). Therefore they have less influence and are less visible. Hence, clubs, TV stations and groups that try to bring more power and visibility to the minority.

White people do not need their own channel. Every channel is White Entertainment Television. Up until the 1970s, there were almost no television shows with black characters and most of those characters were highly stereotypical.

The simplest example would be a group of white people in China. Because the white people are the minority, they can have their own clubs, TV channels and events. The Chinese do not need such things because they are the vast majority and the whole society is geared toward them. An example of this would be Hong Kong, where the English minority (99% white) have such clubs and stations. No one is calling them reverse racists.

 

[DcupSheepNipples]

I always knew you were an albino!

2Thick and Brother!

 

[jackangel]

Good point. It should also occur to people that (in this country, at least) minority-only groups usually exist primarily to celebrate, strengthen the identity of, or increase the support/solidarity within that minority. A white-only group, by contrast, can't do that, because there is no white culture per se (unless we focus on individual ethnicities, as opposed to an entire race). Rather, such groups exists primarily to exclude other races. That's a big difference, in my opinion.

 

[The Republican]

These types of organizations promote racism and effectively keep it alive in this country. The people who are a part of these groups ultimately would like to live in a non-segregated culture, correct? Well, if they are so against segregation, whats the point of creating groups and TV stations that are available to minorities only? Seems like segregation to me.

 

[gettinlarger]

There's a premium channel called Starz. I'm sure you have all heard of it. Have you heard of Black Starz? Yeah, it exists. And I find it offensive.

 

[CipherLock]

I'm going to vote that it's simply because a channel called WET sounds like it's going to be all about porn.

 

[ariolanine]

The analogy is wrong.

Hong Kong is 3% white or 219,100

USA is 12.9% black or 36,473,123

I don't see how 36 million anything is a "minority" except if go strictly by the numbers.

 

[2Thick]

I always knew you were an albino!

2Thick and Brother!

Hahahaha!!! Great picture!

Where do you find this shit?

 

[The Republican]

By the way, your reasoning doesnt make much sense. If I lived in Atlanta, where the population is predominately black, or California where the population is predominately latino, according to your logic having an all-white organization would be acceptable since in those states whites are the minority.

 

[2Thick]

The analogy is wrong.

Hong Kong is 3% white or 219,100

USA is 12.9% black or 36,473,123

I don't see how 36 million anything is a "minority" except if go strictly by the numbers.

You have got to be kidding me.

Did someone beat you with the retarded-stick?

 

[2Thick]

There's a premium channel called Starz. I'm sure you have all heard of it. Have you heard of Black Starz? Yeah, it exists. And I find it offensive.

If it offends you, then do not watch it.

I am sure that your existence offends at least a few thousand people on this earth. Should you be killed because you offend people? Do not answer, it is a rhetorical question.

 

[joack]

These types of organizations promote racism and effectively keep it alive in this country. The people who are a part of these groups ultimately would like to live in a non-segregated culture, correct? Well, if they are so against segregation, whats the point of creating groups and TV stations that are available to minorities only? Seems like segregation to me.

"These typs of organizations..." which ones are you referring to? BET? How does BET promote racism & segregation? Its news shows focuses on nation wide news as a whole and targets issues related to Black and other people of color. Then there are the videos, the same shit that we see on MTV, VH-1, CMC (cali only), it also has programming for the youth emphasizing on staying in school, not doing drugs, positive accomplishments by youths in their communities,etc.

The only black organization that i see as being separatist is the Nation of Islam and their views arent endorsed or broadcasted by BET when it was black owned.

For the record, Blacks dont want a segragate society just access to opportunity.

 

[The Republican]

Do not dilute yourself by nitpicking insignificant details. The nation is what is important, not individual areas.

I understand that, but I was simply trying to get my point across. I dont see the need for any all-minority organizations as well as any all-white organizations.

 

[2Thick]

By the way, your reasoning doesnt make much sense. If I lived in Atlanta, where the population is predominately black, or California where the population is predominately latino, according to your logic having an all-white organization would be acceptable since in those states whites are the minority.

We are talking macrocosms, not microcosms and you know that.

Do not dilute yourself by nitpicking insignificant details. The nation is what is important, not individual areas.

 

[The Republican]

"These typs of organizations..." which ones are you referring to? BET? How does BET promote racism & segregation? Its news shows focuses on nation wide news as a whole and targets issues related to Black and other people of color. Then there are the videos, the same shit that we see on MTV, VH-1, CMC (cali only), it also has programming for the youth emphasizing on staying in school, not doing drugs, positive accomplishments by youths in their communities,etc.

The only black organization that i see as being separatist is the Nation of Islam and their views arent endorsed or broadcasted by BET when it was black owned.

For the record, Blacks dont want a segragate society just access to opportunity.

Im referring to events such as the NAACP awards for example, a program that only gives out kudos to black performers. What is the point of this when the Oscars, Grammys, Emmys, etc all have many black winners?

 

[ariolanine]

You have got to be kidding me.

Did someone beat you with the retarded-stick?

Am I wrong?

 

[2Thick]

Am I wrong?

Yes

 

[ariolanine]

Yes

I know this hurts, but can you tell me why? Was my math off? I'll gladly apologize if so.

 

[2Thick]

I dont see the need for any all-minority organizations as well as any all-white organizations.

You are also Not a minority so you have no say in the matter.

 

[nice6pac]

what i dont; unsertandis michael jackson is white now, waht do you have to eb to eb considered african american by ancestors where from africa science admits it thats why i fill out forms african america I am waiting for someone to say shit i will sue sue sue burden of proof is on teh accuser

 

[2Thick]

I know this hurts, but can you tell me why? Was my math off? I'll gladly apologize if so.

mi·nor·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-nôr-t, -nr-, m-)
n. pl. mi·nor·i·ties

1. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.
A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.

2. An ethnic, racial, religious, or other group having a distinctive presence within a society.

3. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society.

 

[ariolanine]

mi·nor·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-nôr-t, -nr-, m-)
n. pl. mi·nor·i·ties

1. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.
A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.

2. An ethnic, racial, religious, or other group having a distinctive presence within a society.

3. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society.

What you talkin bout willis? I already acknowledged this.

 

[2Thick]

You do realize there are white people in the NAACP, don't you?

I think people forget that some of the founding members are white.

 

[2Thick]

What you talkin bout willis? I already acknowledged this.

LOL.. you are trying to say because American blacks are 12% instead of 3%, it makes any difference.

 

[ariolanine]

LOL.. you are trying to say because American blacks are 12% instead of 3%, it makes any difference.

LOL..yes mathmatics makes a huge difference, amongst other things. There is no comparison between whites in hong kong and blacks in the USA except that they are technically minorities. Think about it. If you want to prove a point, find a better analogy.

 

[joack]

Im referring to events such as the NAACP awards for example, a program that only gives out kudos to black performers. What is the point of this when the Oscars, Grammys, Emmys, etc all have many black winners?

Historically, the Oscars, Grammy & Emmys only gave awards to whites. The best parts in the best movies were given to white men & women, thereby making the recipients of best actor/actress awards whites. And so on and so on for each of the categories. Realize that we were (and are to a large extent) given roles as drug dealers, hoes, pimps, athletes. The more respected characters are given to white actors and actresses.

Therefore, the NAACP Image Awards (Note: NAACP was started in 1908 by whites and blacks to end segregation in this country) is aimed at recognizing positive accomplishments Blacks. Its to say "no were all not criminals, drug dealers, we can act produce music & movies, carry out humanitarian efforts, helping our communities etc. Its a show about showing a positive image of us in America.

Whites and other ethnic minorities have and continue to be a part of the programming (not including all of the corportations Mc Donals, Ford, Chrysler etc).

 

[poultrygeist]

BET is about money and marketing, just like the Oxygen network for women, Outdoor Life for sports nuts, Discovery channel.

thats true

 

[jackangel]

LOL..yes mathmatics makes a huge difference, amongst other things. There is no comparison between whites in hong kong and blacks in the USA except that they are technically minorities. Think about it. If you want to prove a point, find a better analogy.

This makes little sense. A 12% minority is still quite a minority, even though it's fairly different than a 3% minority. And, no, the numbers don't necessarily matter. The issue here is history, and perception. Ultimately, it's unreasonable to argue that they shouldn't feel the way they do. This is how it happened, this is how it is. Maybe the analogy using other countries and societies isn't good enough, but analogies rarely are. In any case, no analogy is needed, because look at the US on its own should suffice.

 

[ariolanine]

This makes little sense. A 12% minority is still quite a minority, even though it's fairly different than a 3% minority. And, no, the numbers don't necessarily matter. The issue here is history, and perception. Ultimately, it's unreasonable to argue that they shouldn't feel the way they do. This is how it happened, this is how it is. Maybe the analogy using other countries and societies isn't good enough, but analogies rarely are. In any case, no analogy is needed, because look at the US on its own should suffice.

Wrong.

 

[2Thick]

LOL..yes mathmatics makes a huge difference, amongst other things. There is no comparison between whites in hong kong and blacks in the USA except that they are technically minorities. Think about it. If you want to prove a point, find a better analogy.

The difference in percentage is equalized when you look at history (like jackangel said).

The whites in Hong Kong were never slaves and were never subject to institutional racism for over 200 years.

 

[joack]

mi·nor·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-nôr-t, -nr-, m-)
n. pl. mi·nor·i·ties

1. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.
A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.

2. An ethnic, racial, religious, or other group having a distinctive presence within a society.

3. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society.

Good point.

#3 is the reason why white woman are covered by Affrimative Action. But talking to people here on this board they think that AA is only for ethnic minorities. Nope white woman to. And they should be covered as they have faced discrimination as well.

Read this quote from the President of the National Organization for Women, Toni Van Pelt...
"When I go out and speak to black groups the first thing I tell them is that white women have been the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action and there's this wave of 'amens,' and the next wave I feel come over them is a wave of resentment," Van Pelt said. "That's part of Bush's divide and conquer strategy. When they say black and Hispanic, they mean black and Hispanic men. When they say women, they mean white women. When does a woman stop being a woman? Black women and Hispanic women aren't even in the mix." http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm?aid=203

 

[jackangel]

Saying that I'm wrong is an empty hole, and is completely without value.

Your argument that blacks shouldn't "feel like a minority" because they represent 12% of the population or because there are 10s of millions of them makes absolutely no sense. That's not how human nature works at all. We agree upon their history of persecution and oppression, yes? Well, history is always important, for it tells us how we got to where we are. We can't discount the past when trying to understand the present, not ever. There still exists an identifiable black culture today, and a sense of togetherness (at least in comparison to whites) or separation because of what happened before, and how it evolved into what exists now. My original point is that, in my impression, most "black groups" exist as a recognition of that identity, and not because they wish to exclude whites (or other groups) because whites are inferior. The opposite is not true.

 

[ariolanine]

The difference in percentage is equalized when you look at history (like jackangel said).

The whites in Hong Kong were never slaves and were never subject to institutional racism for over 200 years.

No black person living in the US for the past 70 years was born a slave. Institutional racism existed primarily in the south and it has been over for 30 years. In addition, black people did get a mild form of revenge with affirmative action and the ability to play the race card.

 

[jackangel]

Oh, and I forgot to put this in:

The reason why numbers aren't necessarily valid here is because black people don't think "well, there's 30 million of us now, no need to feel like such a minority". Perceptions change over time, slowly.

 

[2Thick]

No black person living in the US for the past 70 years was born a slave. Institutional racism existed primarily in the south and it has been over for 30 years. In addition, black people did get a mild form of revenge with affirmative action and the ability to play the race card.

So you are saying that that the past has no affect on the future?

Plus there was blatant institutional racism in the US only 30 years ago (only about one generation ago) and there is still latent institutional racism today.

 

[The Republican]

You are also Not a minority so you have no say in the matter.

Im an american citizen, so therefor it is my duty to have a say in the matter.

 

[The Republican]

And run down the list of black female "Best Actress" Oscar winners again?

Halle Berry is the only one.
I see the point you are trying to make, but the point is that the Academy Awards does not solely revolve around caucasions. The fact that in the past 70 or so years that the academy has only found one african-american woman worthy of the Best Actress statue shouldnt constitute racism.

 

[The Republican]

Historically, the Oscars, Grammy & Emmys only gave awards to whites. The best parts in the best movies were given to white men & women, thereby making the recipients of best actor/actress awards whites. And so on and so on for each of the categories. Realize that we were (and are to a large extent) given roles as drug dealers, hoes, pimps, athletes. The more respected characters are given to white actors and actresses.

Therefore, the NAACP Image Awards (Note: NAACP was started in 1908 by whites and blacks to end segregation in this country) is aimed at recognizing positive accomplishments Blacks. Its to say "no were all not criminals, drug dealers, we can act produce music & movies, carry out humanitarian efforts, helping our communities etc. Its a show about showing a positive image of us in America.

Whites and other ethnic minorities have and continue to be a part of the programming (not including all of the corportations Mc Donals, Ford, Chrysler etc).

You are preaching to the choir here. However this is the year 2003, not 1960. In my personal opinion there is no need for these segregations any longer.
And yes I do know that there are whites in the NAACP and that the organization was founded by both Blacks and Whites.

 

[2Thick]

Im an american citizen, so therefor it is my duty to have a say in the matter.

It is not a public matter. It is a private one.

 

[ariolanine]

So you are saying that that the past has no affect on the future?

Plus there was blatant institutional racism in the US only 30 years ago (only about one generation ago) and there is still latent institutional racism today.

The past does have an affect, but American black complaints regarding slavery are irrelevant at best. Probably more than half the people on earth have ancestors that were slaves. Slavery was practiced and suffered by every race and religion. Slavery today primarily exists in black Africa. Whites haven't owned slaves for 135 years, but blacks own black slaves in 2003.

There is no significant institutional prejudices directed only towards blacks. Fat people and ugly people suffer no less than people of color. With Affirmative Action blacks have the leg up. All they have to do is graduate college and walk into the job of their choosing. Your average white dude has no specific advantage other than the possibilty of connections. The black people that actually did suffer through segragation in the south have my deepest sympathies. They have every right to complain and do all the "black only" things they want. I don't blame them at all if they distrust and/or hate whites.

 

[The Republican]

Well, I for one, find it hard to believe that neither Cicely Tyson nor Alfre Woodard never gave a performance worthy of a win.

True, I should have worded my response differently. In my response to joack I acknowledged that in the past blacks were not given credit where credit is due. These days, however, any sane person would have to admit that the situation has changed compared to even 10 years ago.

 

[The Republican]

It is not a public matter. It is a private one.

I would beg to differ.

 

[joack]

Well, I for one, find it hard to believe that neither Cicely Tyson nor Alfre Woodard never gave a performance worthy of a win.

Ditto

 

[Mildot]

Ahh, good 'ol BET.
Where the stand-up comics can use their "white honky" voice and nobody should give a shit.
I am so sick of seeing those ignorant fucks doing their impression of "whitey" every night. They are doing themselves a great disservice night after night with that bullshit.
Some of us are paying attention.

 

[joack]

True, I should have worded my response differently. In my response to joack I acknowledged that in the past blacks were not given credit where credit is due. These days, however, any sane person would have to admit that the situation has changed compared to even 10 years ago.

Ask some Blacks who work in the industry. Hell, Steven Spielberg was at the 2000 NAACP Image awards staying that there should be much more diversity throughout the industry. Perhaps you'll believe him.
Tell me do you think that people will flock to see Denzel or Tom Cruise in a steamy romantic movie? Both good actors both are handsome.

Do you think america is ready to see us half naked black folks making love to each other on the movie screen? ...lol.. just curious

I'll be glad when were recognized for our work and given an opportunity to be the STAR the blockbust movies.

 

[jackangel]

Hey, you know, white folks are just jealous because they can't claim Sidney Poitier.

Now there's a great actor, I wot.

 

[joack]

Ahh, good 'ol BET.
Where the stand-up comics can use their "white honky" voice and nobody should give a shit.
I am so sick of seeing those ignorant fucks doing their impression of "whitey" every night. They are doing themselves a great disservice night after night with that bullshit.
Some of us are paying attention.

Well, tell the white owners to change the programming. "Some of us are paying attention"....lol... And some of yall own that muthafucka!

 

[jackangel]

Oh, and there are some white comedians on BET Comic View. They're not usually funny, but at least there are a few of them. But I just love it when they show clips from various performances based on a theme...i.e., weed.

And, of course, the women...on stage and in the audience. Sssssssssssmokin.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Blacks have every right to create private organizations that are exclusively black, it is the right of association. With that, since rights are individual and not collective, this same holds true to anyone who wishes to organize based on some criteria: race, belief, interests, sex, etc. It is the right of people to associate with others of common background.

What is wrong is to claim is that only certain groups have this right and others don't, since this infringes on the rights of others based on your personal opinion, and opinions are irrelevent. So, when people claim that all white organizations are racist, or all male groups are misogynistic, it is perfectly reasonable to counter this claim by demonstrating the acceptance of the opposite group.

Groups, based on race or gender, while legal, do nothing but promote "group mentality", which is not advantageous to the betterment of the individuals. It cements the idea that one's value and acheivements are only as great as the group that one belongs. Both white supremacist and black identity groups use these venues to act as victims.

 

[Code]

If it offends you, then do not watch it.

.

IS that what you would tell a black community angry because they live near N*gger Lake?? How many faces you got in there man??

 

[2Thick]

IS that what you would tell a black community angry because they live near N*gger Lake?? How many faces you got in there man??

A television channel and the official (gov't sanctioned) name for a place are two different things.

Thanks for playing, though.

 

[Code]

A television channel and the official (gov't sanctioned) name for a place are two different things.

Thanks for playing, though.

How is it different? BET is a registered trademark. N*igger Lake is no more government sanctioned than BET is.

 

[2Thick]

How is it different? BET is a registered trademark. N*igger Lake is no more government sanctioned than BET is.

If you do not know the difference then I cannot help you.

 

[Code]

If you do not know the difference then I cannot help you.

No, you simply can't answer. You really shouldn't start threads you can't finish.

 

[2Thick]

No, you simply can't answer. You really shouldn't start threads you can't finish.

You are not using logic. If you do not use logic, then I cannot finish a debate with you.

 

[Code]

You are not using logic. If you do not use logic, then I cannot finish a debate with you.

Seriously, what is the difference? BET is a government recognized trademark....

 

[The Republican]

Ask some Blacks who work in the industry. Hell, Steven Spielberg was at the 2000 NAACP Image awards staying that there should be much more diversity throughout the industry. Perhaps you'll believe him.
Tell me do you think that people will flock to see Denzel or Tom Cruise in a steamy romantic movie? Both good actors both are handsome.

Do you think america is ready to see us half naked black folks making love to each other on the movie screen? ...lol.. just curious

I'll be glad when were recognized for our work and given an opportunity to be the STAR the blockbust movies.

1) As I said before, Im not denying that things are not perfect.
2) I dont need to ask anyone to form my own opinions.
3) There are plenty of movies where two black people engage in sexual practices.

 

[The Republican]

The difference is that BET does not openly bring up a word that was once used to degrade a minority group. If it were called Honkey TV, then I would see your point.

If you do not like BET, you can choose not to watch it. You can even write mail to congressmen and TV stations.

The government has allowed the use of the names of these nefarious places. You cannot turn off the name "Nigger Mountain." It is right there on the map and the mountain does not disappear with the push of a button.

BET is right there in the TV guide. If you dont like the name "N----- Lake" then dont visit it.

 

[2Thick]

Seriously, what is the difference? BET is a government recognized trademark....

The difference is that BET does not openly bring up a word that was once used to degrade a minority group. If it were called Honkey TV, then I would see your point.

If you do not like BET, you can choose not to watch it. You can even write mail to congressmen and TV stations.

The government has allowed the use of the names of these nefarious places. You cannot turn off the name "Nigger Mountain." It is right there on the map and the mountain does not disappear with the push of a button.

 

[Code]

The difference is that BET does not openly bring up a word that was once used to degrade a minority group. If it were called Honkey TV, then I would see your point.

If you do not like BET, you can choose not to watch it. You can even write mail to congressmen and TV stations.

The government has allowed the use of the names of these nefarious places. You cannot turn off the name "Nigger Mountain." It is right there on the map and the mountain does not disappear with the push of a button.

Good point.

 

[jackangel]

Good point.

Praise Jesus and pass the biscuits! You don't see this very often in an argument thread!

 

[Cheeky Pecker Checker]

You cannot turn off the name "Nigger Mountain."

The US government should change the name to something similarly descriptive but not as offensive and grating - Montenegro or Noirmont would sound OK.

 

[jackangel]

How about Honky Hill?

 

[ariolanine]

<sarcasm>
It does make a difference. In the computer lab I work in there are roughly 20 people. There's one other black woman, no black men besides me. We're 10% of the population. If we were 3% there'd only be 0.6 black people here. That's a whole 1.4 person difference. LOL
</sarcasm>

Ariolanine, I'm sure you're trying but I'm just not seeing your point. If 12% seems like alot to you try walking around the outskirts of Harlem or South Central L.A., then tell me if you felt like a minority or not.

Not sure what you're getting at. Never been to Harlem or L.A. 12% might not be alot, but since most of that 12% are concentrated in specific areas there seems to be more black people than there are. My point about 12 versus 3 percent was the actual number.... 219,000 vs. 36,473,123.

 

[Cheeky Pecker Checker]

How about Honky Hill?

Honky Hill can be renamed Montblanc.

 

[jackangel]

Honky Hill can be renamed Montblanc.

Good, so I'm not the only one who took French.