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The Coming Apocolypse.......

buddy28

New member
this is how itll begin.....first as a isolated measure to help keep the bad guys off the street. And as terrorists make another big hit, people will give up their privacy for increased security.........the implications of this article are enourmas.


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US to Consider Computer Chip Implant
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020226/ts/human_computer_chip_2.html
By CHRISTOPHER NEWTON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - A Florida technology company is poised to ask the government for permission to market a first-ever computer ID chip that could be embedded beneath a person's skin.

For airports, nuclear power plants and other high security facilities, the immediate benefits could be a closer-to-foolproof security system. But privacy advocates warn the chip could lead to encroachments on civil liberties.

The implant technology is another case of science fiction evolving into fact. Those who have long advanced the idea of implant chips say it could someday mean no more easy-to-counterfeit ID cards nor dozing security guards.

Just a computer chip - about the size of a grain of rice - that would be difficult to remove and tough to mimic.

Other uses of the technology on the horizon, from an added device that would allow satellite tracking of an individual's every movement to the storage of sensitive data like medical records, are already attracting interest across the globe for tasks like foiling kidnappings or assisting paramedics.

Applied Digital Solutions' new ``VeriChip'' is another sign that Sept. 11 has catapulted the science of security into a realm with uncharted possibilities - and also new fears for privacy.

``The problem is that you always have to think about what the device will be used for tomorrow,'' said Lee Tien, a senior attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a privacy advocacy group.

``It's what we call function creep. At first a device is used for applications we all agree are good but then it slowly is used for more than it was intended,'' he said.

Applied Digital, based in Palm Beach, Fla., says it will soon begin the process of getting Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) approval for the device, and intends to limit its marketing to companies that ensure its human use is voluntary.

``The line in the sand that we draw is that the use of the VeriChip would always be voluntarily,'' said Keith Bolton, chief technology officer and a vice president at Applied Digital. ``We would never provide it to a company that intended to coerce people to use it.''

More than a decade ago, Applied bought a competing firm, Destron Fearing, which had been making chips implanted in animals for several years. Those chips were mainly bought by animal owners wanting to provide another way for pound workers to identify a lost pet.

Chips for humans aren't that much different.

But the company was hesitant to market them for people because of ethical questions. The devastation of Sept. 11 solidified the company's resolve to market the human chip and brought about a new sensibility about the possible interest.

``It's a sad time ... when people have to wonder whether it's safe in their own country,'' Bolton said.

The makers of the chip also foresee it being used to help emergency workers diagnose a lost Alzheimer's patient or access an unconscious patient's medical history.

Getting the implant would go something like this:

A person or company buys the chip from Applied Digital for about $200 and the company encodes it with the desired information. The person seeking the implant takes the tiny device - about the size of a grain of rice, to their doctor, who can insert it with a large needle device.

The doctor monitors the device for several weeks to make sure it doesn't move and that no infection develops.

The device has no power supply, rather it contains a millimeter-long magnetic coil that is activated when a scanning device is run across the skin above it. A tiny transmitter on the chip sends out the data.

Without a scanner, the chip cannot be read. Applied Digital plans to give away chip readers to hospitals and ambulance companies, in the hopes they'll become standard equipment.

The chip has drawn attention from several religious groups.

Theologian and author Terry Cook said he worries the identification chip could be the ``mark of the beast,'' an identifying mark that all people will be forced to wear just before the end times, according to the Bible.

Applied Digital has consulted theologians and appeared on the religious television program the ``700 Club'' to assure viewers the chip didn't fit the biblical description of the mark because it is under the skin and hidden from view.

Even with the privacy and religious concerns, some are already eager to use the product.

Jeff Jacobs in Coral Springs, Florida has contacted the company in hopes of becoming the first person to purchase the chip.

Jacobs suffers from a number of serious allergies and wants to make sure medical personnel can diagnose him.

``They would know who to contact, they would know what medications I'm on, and it's quite a few,'' he said. ``They would know what I'm allergic to, what kind of operations I've had and where there might be problems.''

Applied Digital says technology to let the chip to be used for tracking is already well under development.

Eight Latin American companies have contacted Applied Digital and have openly encouraged the company to pursue the internal tracking devices. In some countries, kidnapping has become an epidemic that limits tourism and business.
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We dont think we do it now, but in 10 years, when weve been exposed to its use in isolated populations, we might not think its such a bad idea. Heck, we might even warm up to it.

Government tracking all your movements. Posssibly all your communications, both verbal and electronic, constantly. THis is 1984 served by a trusted friend. We better wake up, or its going to become a reality.
 
i used to believe in the apocolypse and all that shit, but it ain't gonna happen. jesus was a madman, and he never came back.

also, why exactly do religious people make it such an issue to oppose scientific achievement? cloning, implants, genetic engineering. every fuckin time we find a way to make people healtheir religious people who endorse fatalism start getting mad because 'god's design' is being threatened. i've never felt i could engage in terrorism but if religious people oppose many more big scientific achievements due to fatalism & subservience to an invisible god i shall have no choice but to move to another country & silently applaud the bombing of religious institutions.

i'm worried about losing civil liberties, but there won't be an apocolypse anytime soon.
 
I wouldnt want any of those chips in me either way. I still refuse to get ez pass because I dont want some other agency tracking where I go and how I get there.
 
The bottom line is I will never have one of those.
Period.

nordstrom - I hope you are wrong. This world is fucked up. Some say a comet will fall from the sky, followed by meteor showers and tidal waves, followed by fault lines, you can not sit still, followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. I hope they are right.
--
 
Crazier said:
The bottom line is I will never have one of those.
Period.

nordstrom - I hope you are wrong. This world is fucked up. Some say a comet will fall from the sky, followed by meteor showers and tidal waves, followed by fault lines, you can not sit still, followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. I hope they are right.
--

I sure could use a vacation from this bullshit three ring circus sideshow of freaks

TOOL had it right all along, look at that!!!!!!!!!!1

Nice post!
 
Crazier said:
The bottom line is I will never have one of those.
Period.

nordstrom - I hope you are wrong. This world is fucked up. Some say a comet will fall from the sky, followed by meteor showers and tidal waves, followed by fault lines, you can not sit still, followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. I hope they are right.
--

No doubt, I saw a bumper sticker at a Christian bookstore last week that had these words on it. "If you Are Living Like There is No God....You'd better be right"(it had flames on the bottom of the sticker.

I would not get the chip. I don't want the govt to know where I am 24-7. It is none of their business. This is the land of the FREE!!!
 
NordStrom and others-

I hear ya. This post is more about government infringment on civil liberties. However, the medium proposed to accomplish their goals, apparently mirror prophesys in the Book of Revelation.

Bullshit you say. The nations of the world are slowly conceding power to interstate organizations like NATO, and the EU.

Although we are in the beginging stages, 'supernations' as theyre are being dubed, are already being formed. The European Common Market not only represents a open market betweenn 14 member countries, but guess what, those member countries are already conceding national power to EU legistlative institutions. The EU has their own charter of rights which is now enforceable in each member country. What does that mean?

Soverign nations like England and France, are conceding their own soverignity to EU legislative laws, which undermines the very definition of a soverign state.

This is the wave of the future. Trading blocks weild incrediable power and promise increased wealth for member nations.

We are in a time now where international wars being fought are recieving increased opposition from educated citizens in democratic nations. Due to the nature of democratic societies, expressed opposition to military campaigns, which eventually secure state security in the long run, undermine state security in the short run. This is no small issue. The proliferation of Weapons of Mass destruction poses a major threat to Western democracys. Weapons of Mass Destruction technology does not nessecarily have to be bought, it is the end result of human scientifiic achievement. THis means every single country on the face of the earth, who are activily developing WMD technologies, will eventually succeed. Human intelligence, depsite what alot of people would like to think, isnt possessed by a select group. The proliferation of WMD technologies is an inevitability - assuming nations developing WMD technologies have the capital resources to do so.

Trading blocks then, governed by a single controlling authority, can eventually undermine potentially threatening 'rouge' states, by choking their markets off from international trade access through wide reaching economic sanctions.

The larger the trading blocks cohesion and cooperation is, the increased security for those member nations. Us.

The EU trading block has already formed and is continuing to grow. America, Canada, Mexico, and nations in South America have ratified FTAA - Free Trade Agreement of the America's. This peice of trade lesligation parrellels the beginings of the EU common market in Europe.

Where is this all going? The primary goal of each nation is to ensure national security, or ensure the perpetuation of the nation state. There are two integral features nessecary to perpetuate national security:

1) prosperus economy --- most important. Generates all tax revenues which finance government services, military, and infastructure.

Massive trading blocks ensure economic security of member nations while preventing trade with undesirable nations. Essientially, trading block member nations experience increased economic wealth, while nonmember nations experience decreased economic wealth.

2) civilian control

National security is also achieved by civilian control. The political science axiom has never been more true: those in power, attempt to ensure the perpetuation of existing nation state, which ensures their power. Who are 'those' in power? People who have money and knowledge. Business people, politicians, well educated persons. People of affluence.

The more a state exerts control over its citizens, the less likely rebellions and crediable threats to existing state institutions will find success.

Human microchip implants represent a medium for which our governments can track our every move, and record and monitor our every interaction. With this kind of technology, our government will be able to listen to every single interaction we participate in. If they know what were up too, how we can ever subvert a disguised oppressive 'democratic' government, if they can reveal our plans before we carry them out?

We cant.

So the simple solution would be to reject wearing a civilian microchip implant, and that would be easy enough, right? Once the majority of citizens warm up to the idea of microchp implants, the government will legislate all persons who engage in commercial transactions, both for personal and business use, have microchip implants installed.

Henry Kissinger (Bilderberg Conference; Evians, France; 1992): "Today Americans would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful.  This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence.  It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from evil.  The one thing every man fears is the 'unknown'.  When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by their world government." 

George H. W. Bush, Sr. (1991): "The world can therefore seize the opportunity [from the Persian Gulf War] to fulfill the long held promise of a New World Order where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind."

Strobe Talbot (Deputy Sec. of State, 2000): "In the next century, nations as we know them will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority.  National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."

Julius Caesar: "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword.  It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.  And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry.  Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.  How do I know?  For this is what I have done.  And I am Caesar.


"He was given power to give breathe to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, both rich and poor, free and slave, to recieve a mark on his right hand or forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had that mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is mans number. His number is 666."

Revelation 13:15-18

revelation was written over 1500 years ago by the prophet John.
 
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Buddy,

Great Post. It is coming. I read a report that the Wall Street Journal saying that the micro chip technology is going to be MULTI billion dollar industry in the near future.
 
curling said:
Buddy,

Great Post. It is coming. I read a report that the Wall Street Journal saying that the micro chip technology is going to be MULTI billion dollar industry in the near future.

Im scared man. ITs insane, but perfectly logical. It all makes sense.

the microchip industry, like u said, is going to be huge. Another member posted a story where major corporations are planning to install microchips into products to glean increased market research data about their customers. Product purchases are either bought with smart cards, credit cards, or implanted microchips, which intiates the transfer of consumer demographic data, either from federal government databases for smartcards or microchips, or corporate databases for credit cards, to be downloaded to the product chip. Once the transaction is completed, consumer purchase information is uploaded to federal databases for smart cards and human microchips implants, or uploaded to corporations for credit cards, for ''recording purposes".

using datamining, the government can analyse uploaded information from smartcards or implants, for any 'suspiscious' consumer behavor.

The government will ok product microchips because increase accuracy in market research = increase business efficency = increase firm revenue = increase federal tax revenue.

At any time, the potential abuses of these technologies is enourmas. Our every movement and action can be tracked.

Im hoping we have sometime before this all goes down.
 
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buddy28 said:


A. Im scared man.

B. Im hoping we have sometime before this all goes down.

A. If you have made yourself righteous, there is nothing to be scared of. Rather, a feeling of excitement.

B. What do you need more time for? What would that change?
--
 
you two remind me of jack van impe. he's always so excited about doomsday prophecy. he won't be smiling if he's stuck in the middle of it. i don't worry too much. i don't feel people have translated or interpreted revelations properly. meaning, i think john's prophecy has already been fullfilled. history does repeat itself but i don't think any of us will be around when it finishes.
 
No sushi,

I have heard that argument that Nero was the Anti Christ. It is an unfounded theory. Because in the Whole in Babylon a Country will be destroyed by fire in a hour. That is a nuclear blast if I ever saw one and I don't think they had plutonium in Nero's day do you?
 
Crazier said:


A. If you have made yourself righteous, there is nothing to be scared of. Rather, a feeling of excitement.

B. What do you need more time for? What would that change?
--

thing is, im not a very "rightous" guy. To me, its scary to concieve a probable near future in which the government has the ability to monitor all civilian movement. It is a massive step backward for humanity and enables the creation of a global police state.

Theologically speaking, a one world government, and "the mark" required to buy or sell any product, signals the apocolpyse prophsied by John. Which entails nucleaur exchange, world war, death. ect.
 
buddy28 said:


thing is, im not a very "rightous" guy.


I totally understand this. I felt the same way. But I think God looks at what you are doing and what you are going to do more than he does your past. So I, myself, am striving to live a more rightous life maybe God is calling you to do the same.
 
all right you freaks, I need some claification from you guys.

what does a microchip have to do with the apocolypse. I know I've read shit about the mark of the beast or someshit, but where does it say anything about a microchip and Satan?

Also how does the bible treat people with pace makers, or artificial limbs? How are those different than microchips?

Just curious?
 
The Nature Boy said:
all right you freaks, I need some claification from you guys.

what does a microchip have to do with the apocolypse. I know I've read shit about the mark of the beast or someshit, but where does it say anything about a microchip and Satan?

Also how does the bible treat people with pace makers, or artificial limbs? How are those different than microchips?

Just curious?

As Buddy explained, the chip is a sign of the end.

If you've read the bible it explains the mark of the beast. Anyone with the mark of the beast will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven.

It simply is a prediction of the end.

A better educated man on religion, ie curling, can probably explain better.
--
 
Crazier said:


As Buddy explained, the chip is a sign of the end.

If you've read the bible it explains the mark of the beast. Anyone with the mark of the beast will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven.

It simply is a prediction of the end.

A better educated man on religion, ie curling, can probably explain better.
--

but do you see what my question is? how is the mark of the beast a microchip? do we know this for a fact? why are tatoos not marks of the beast? I hope I dont' sound sarcastic, I'm serious about this.
 
The Nature Boy said:


but do you see what my question is? how is the mark of the beast a microchip? do we know this for a fact? why are tatoos not marks of the beast? I hope I dont' sound sarcastic, I'm serious about this.

natureboy,

did u read my long post? I know my posts are sometimes, well usually rather long, but at the end it was implied.

ITs probable implanted human microchips will be required by the government to buy or sell anything. Similarly, in revelations, Chapter 13:16-18, states the mark of the beast will be required by all persons who wish to engage in commercial transactions.

The "mark" will be denoted somewhere by the numbers 666. But, that doesnt mean the content of the mark is just numbers. More likely, the numbers are either an ancillary visual, or an inherent design feature of the "mark".

The similarities are striking. Its likely, if microchip technology can be adopted for human use, microchips will be incorporated in all global capitalistic economies because they facilitate the gathering of *perfect* market research data + allow governments to monitor virtually all civilian movement and consumer behavor.

When this happens, it will usher in an unprecendented era of human history where a mark, or microchip, will be required by the majority of the global human population to buy or sell anything.

Nothing is set in stone. Microchips may fail to work. But using knowledge gained from political science, economics, sociology, and psychology, its likely microchips will be chosen as the instrument to authorize all buying and selling in the majority of developed countries.
 
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the similarities are striking. however, since I'm always the skeptic, what is the exact passage from the bible.

also, did that passage come straight from Christs mouth? or someone else?

I know I know, I'm not a believer. But I'd like to know.
 
Here is the passage nature boy,

Rev.13 15-18

He(the anti Christ)was given power to breath to the image of the first beast, so it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone small, great, rich and poor to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless h had the mark, which the name of the beast oor the number of his name. This call fro wisdom, anyone has insight, let him calculate the the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
 
Oh and the passage came from John a diciple of Chrsit that was enlightened with the future from an Angel from God. I just think it is pretty wild that we are so close to a technology that was predictied almost 2000 years ago. Btw they say the chip will be implanted in the right hand or in the forehead.
 
Nature Boy,

Its in my long post. New Testament, Revelations Chapter 13 Verses 16-18

And I quote :)

"He also forced everyone, small and great, both rich and poor, free and slave, to recieve a mark on his right hand or forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had that mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is mans number. His number is 666."

Revelation 13:16-18

revelation was written over 1500 years ago by the prophet John exiled on the island of Patmos for his faith in Christ.

I understand if ur a skeptic. So am I. Theres an overwhelming amount of evidence refuting Biblical creationism and a 10,000 year old earth. Which basically means, the Bible is not the complete infalliable Word of God. However, that doesnt mean every verse in the Bible is false.

If your looking for confirmation of the accuracy of Biblical prophesy, try this on for size (one of my favorite quotes by the way):

"Who has beleived our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearence that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces, he was despised and we esteemed not.

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him to be stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was peirced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our inequities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid upon him the inequity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted yet did not open his mouth;
he was like a lamb to the slaughter , and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so did he not open his mouth. By oppression and judgement he was taking away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deciet in his mouth.

Yet it was the Lords will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the the Lord will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied;

by his knowledge my rightous servant will justify many, and he will bear their inequities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils among the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors.

For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."


We need to understand the Bible conveys spiritual truths. This scripture predicts the life and purpose of Christ. It was written over 600 years before Christ was born. Recent discoveries of the dead sea scrolls confirmed scripture in the Book of Isiah had been unaltered over 1500 years of transcription.

Isiah Chapter 53, Verses 1-12
 
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The Apocalypse, like Genesis, is just a tale in my opinion. That doesn't mean I don't believe in God or Jesus. I just don't take all of the bible literally. The potential of this chip, however, could be analogous to "the mark." If you don't have it, you're not "legal" and couldn't move freely or conduct professional or personal business anywhere.

No matter what governments do, in the end they're looking to increase their power over the people. It's the very nature of people in power and governments as a whole. Our constitution is very special and we must always defend it and our FREE way of life. I think I'd shoot someone before I'd let them implant an ID chip into my body.
 
Ok, now you guys are really going to hate me.

ok, so if the chip has 666 or is called satan then it's bad correct? if not then it's okay?

And this is my main beef with the bible, some stories are meant to be taken literally... or so I've been told. Adam and Eve, the X number of days it took to create the earth, etc. Yet this story is supposed to be taken literally? Were his words directly transcribed to paper, or were they passed by word of mouth? I guess I'm just being skeptical, that's all.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Ok, now you guys are really going to hate me.

ok, so if the chip has 666 or is called satan then it's bad correct? if not then it's okay?

And this is my main beef with the bible, some stories are meant to be taken literally... or so I've been told. Adam and Eve, the X number of days it took to create the earth, etc. Yet this story is supposed to be taken literally? Were his words directly transcribed to paper, or were they passed by word of mouth? I guess I'm just being skeptical, that's all.


But you see that is what "faith" is all about. You have to have it. You can pick everything apart but in the end you will have more questions then before you started. Just have faith.
 
Crazier said:


Unfortunately, to a non-believer this statement is the very reason they don't believe. It certainly doesn't help your view point.
--

true. good conversation though. I guess I need to see a chip with S.A.T.A.N. or 666 on it. Then I would know.

Here's another dumb question, what happens after the chips being put in. I know there's an apocolyps, but comes after? Maybe I should just read the Bible and find out instead of asking all these questions.
 
Crazier said:


Unfortunately, to a non-believer this statement is the very reason they don't believe. It certainly doesn't help your view point.
--

There are many definitions of the word 'faith.' It can mean believing without proof; belief in God, religion, or spiritual things, or 'what is believed.' whether someone has faith that God exists, faith in their religion, or faith that God does not exist: everyone has faith. People automatically assume that there is only one context to the word faith, relating directly to God and religion.

bunny
 
bunnymt said:


People automatically assume that there is only one context to the word faith, relating directly to God and religion.

bunny

Bunny - You're right. But, unfortunately, to people like my good friend curling... if you don't believe in the same person to be god as he does, in this case Jesus Christ... then you are not god's true child, and you aren't welcome to the kingdom of heaven.

Well, that view point simply is just not fair.

Curling was most likely introducted into the Christian religion, and has adopted this religion because he believes in it. Now, mind you, I think that's awesome... I don't care what the religion is, so long as it provokes righteousness... the thing is, when people say 'you have to have faith'... if someone like myself never attended church as a child... you can't have faith in something ou don't understand.

I have faith now because of year's of searching different aspect of many different religions. I didn't find one, and automatically cast all other religions to be less than mine. With an open mind you can learn most about yourself.

I never question whether Jesus is God's son. I know he is. I know this because we all are. I never question his righteousness. I only question why one couldn't be as well, no matter his religious preference.

Christian's don't believe the same as the chosen people... (jews.)
Jew's don't believe Jesus has arrived yet. So, every person that was born in the sacred, chosen land goes to hell because they didn't have they didn't believe Jesus was actually God's son?

How could that be?

I guess at the same time you are asking how that could be, you could also question why the chosen land has not had peace in hundred's and hundred's of years.

As gwl9 said... once you start to question, you just end up with more questions.
--
 
Crazier said:


Christian's don't believe the same as the chosen people... (jews.)
Jew's don't believe Jesus has arrived yet. So, every person that was born in the sacred, chosen land goes to hell because they didn't have they didn't believe Jesus was actually God's son?

How could that be?

I guess at the same time you are asking how that could be, you could also question why the chosen land has not had peace in hundred's and hundred's of years.

--

The chosen land that is referred to in the Bible, the Middle East region, like you have said has not had peace for thousands of years. Are you saying that Jewish people believe that if you are not born in the chosen land, that you will go to hell? If that is what you are saying, I think that you are mistaken. However, I am not sure because I am not all too familiar with Judaism.

bunny
 
Nature Boy,

Although some faith is utimately required for beleif in God, blind faith isnt necessary. Verfication as to the accuracy of historical translation and transcription of Biblical scripture, can help cultivate faith.

Because ur not a Christian, I suppose my Isiah quote was alittle irrevelant. Isaih, or the author of the text I quoted from the book of Isiah, essientially prophesied Christs first coming.

Christs life, in essence, was intended as a guilt offering for human transgression. God, took a part of Himself, made himself human, and suffered at the hands of man for our inequities.

Y?

Apparently, God is a just God. Although he loves us, he requires our actions be held accountable to His perfect standard. Since we are not perfect, he sent himself , through Christ incarnate, to not only take our sin, but to be depised and abused by his very own creation, to prove himself worthy as our Creator.

This is what is meant by spiritual truths. He wants us to come to him. He identifies with the weak, misunderstood, beaten, bruised, and tormented among us, because pain and injustice exposes our vulnerability. Our true nature.

You're right to question the Bible. The example I offered was a prediction, or prophesy, of Christs first coming - 500 years before his birth. Christs life has been confirmed by secular historical scholars and Egyptian cultures during his time. The quote from Isiah proves some Biblical prophesies *are* true.

Ultimately, no one, ever, will be able to add tritnium to magnesium and say "Ah Ha! There is a God, and Christ is it!"

We will never have emperical information which confirms Gods exsistence.

God intended to be this way. Why? This is a mystery. But I suppose you want me to offer my own theory ;) .......

In the end, human equality can be found in the breadth and depth of emotion we feel. Intelligence is randomly distributed across humanity . If scientific knowledge was all which was needed to confirm Gods existence, only a esoteric few could participate fully in the beleif of God.

Our emotions represent the medium through which God captures our attention and cultivates our faith in Him. These spiritual truths are deep within us, which God has placed in our hearts. We know them to true, but often times, we deny them even to ourselves because they oppose our current lifestyle.

This is true for everyone. One thing I learned as Ive grown up, every single human on this earth enjoys evil. I enjoy it, u enjoy it, everyone does. The only distinction is between people who consciously acknowledge their evil desires, and people who deny their evil desires exsist.

I dont beleive in condeming human nature. We are what we are, and we most certainly are not all bad. Humans frequently engage in altrusitic and humanatarian acts everyday. But we also do the opposite. And its important not to deny these acts, because they enable us to see what we really are.

If you dont beleive me, look at the world. Look at the direction its headed in. Not the Biblical endtime prophesy. Just the facts. World history doesnt lie. Weve repeated war after war, for increasedd national wealth = 'security' , and painted it with a patriotic brush, quoted a few verses from the Bible, and think were just.

God wants us to accept our nature, and seek the Remedy.

To answer ur questions.

1) so if the chip has 666 or is called satan then it's bad correct?
Yes. That would be very very bad.

2) if not then it's okay?
You tell me. If your government endows itself with the authority to monitor ur every movement and commercial transaction, is that good? Do respect and cherish the moral princibles your countries constitution was founded upon?

Take a look at Ceasers quote again in this thread. His quote, a quote from one of the most influential global rulers ever, gave a candid description of the possible corruption inherent in power.

3) Yet this story is supposed to be taken literally? Were his words directly transcribed to paper, or were they passed by word of mouth?

See Isiah post. this may answer ur question.

4) what happens after the chips being put in. I know there's an apocolyps, but comes after?

The rapture of all obediant Christian believers marks the begnining of the 7 year tribulation period. The first three years are peacefull. During the first three years the antiChrist comes to power, institutes a one world government and the mark of the beast. In the later 3 1/2 years, the Anti Christ orchastrates a global war. Western nations are pitted against the East, US versus China and the Soviets. The battle to end all battles. Nuclear exchange, pestilence, fires follow. 1/3 of the earth is burned and 1/3 of the global population descimated.

The final ground battle takes place at a remote location in Isreal, Armageddon. There, before humanity wipes itself from the map, Christ makes his trimuphent return. Stops complete utter annihilation of the earth and all its inhabitents. Raises the dead, and judges us all.

Not bad for a days work, huh? :)
 
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the chip will come

First tags on groceries within 10 years. At first it'll be so you can buy groceries without having to unload your cart; just swipe your credit card on the way out the door. . ( digital dog tags in 10 years )
Notice how it's nearly impossible to get anything without providing your credit card number these days. Money was always a concept, but now it's becoming even more and more virtual.

Then will come the people chips. First for nursing homes.. then as an addition to medicalert bracelets, then for military/paramilitary people, sensitive installations (e.g. nuclear plants) and so on till everyone has one. By then it'll be normal and our grandkids will have them put into us. Why? Because it'll be a HUGE industry.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Also how does the bible treat people with pace makers, or artificial limbs? How are those different than microchips?

Just curious?

Pace makers and artificial limbs are medical necessities.

apples and oranges.
 
Sushi X said:
you two remind me of jack van impe. he's always so excited about doomsday prophecy. he won't be smiling if he's stuck in the middle of it. i don't worry too much. i don't feel people have translated or interpreted revelations properly. meaning, i think john's prophecy has already been fullfilled. history does repeat itself but i don't think any of us will be around when it finishes.

Mr. Van Impe is excited about meeting our Savior.

He is a man of God and I respect him---just thought I would through that in.:)
 
Another thing to worry about is that once people have these implants and they are used for all commercial transactions, you will be vulnerable to criminals who grab people off the street, cut out their implants, and go on a buying spree.

Of course the thugs will have removed or disabled their own implants -- just as those bent on crime do not obey gun laws.

Sounds like a great opportunity for hackers to make small fortunes disabling or altering implants. Imagine a snooper reading a chip that's altered to read birthdate Feb 36, 1484 or bloodtype ABX*10**-32, or served 10 years at hard labor on Mars between 1843 and 1853? Let's face it, there would be a "need" to update the data from time to time, so it will have to be programmable after it's installed, so it'll be vulnerable to hacking.
 
Nature boy,

If you would like to learn more about the end times read the "Left Behind" series. Although it is fiction it is fiction that is based on prophesy so it could be become a reality. Very good books, lots of action and it really brings Revelation to life.

Crazier,

I hope you don't think I am closed minded but I just believe what the Bible says and it says the only way to my Father(Jesus talking) is through me. See since I believe in God I also know there is an adversary named Satan. And Satan already has the sinners so he goes after the rituous ones in forms of false religions(he is a very clever evil dude). And the best way to do that is to make people believe in things other than the one thing that will save them. I know it may not seem fair but life is just a test to see if we will choose God or reject him. And if we choose Him, He will reward us more than your wildest dreams. Just look at Solomon(still the richest man that ever lived).

I have some of the same questions about the Jews as you do. I am sorry I don't have more knowledge to answer your questions on that.
 
buddy good stuff. Although i disagree with you on this stuff.... for now anyway.

But one thing about the apocolypse... you say that there becomes a one world government. Why would a one world government start a nuclear war? wouldn't it be starting a war with itself?
 
No it will probably be us they start the war with. America I don't think will ever surrender its soverienty(sp) to a one world order(we are just to independent for that) so they will probably try to take us out.

You see alot of people will die in the end times. More than ever in recorded history. There will be a world wide earth quake that will kill a huge % of the world, a giant meteor named wormwood that will kill more, then there will be horsemen that will kill another 1/3 of mankind. Believe me I hope their is a pretrib rapture because I do not want me or my family or my friends to live though that.
 
bunnymt said:


The chosen land that is referred to in the Bible, the Middle East region, like you have said has not had peace for thousands of years. Are you saying that Jewish people believe that if you are not born in the chosen land, that you will go to hell? If that is what you are saying, I think that you are mistaken. However, I am not sure because I am not all too familiar with Judaism.

bunny

No... that's not what I was saying bunny.

What I am saying is that Jews are the chosen people... yet they don't believe Jesus Christ has come yet... and according to Christian's if you don't believe in Jesus of Nazareth to be the son of man, you will not be welcome in the kingdom of heaven.

So, god's own chosen people don't go to heaven because they have a different set of ideas? That doesn't make any sense.

That idea is close minded.

Very much like the mormon religion, but that's another story of it's own.

Curling... not in the least man.

Island Son - Your avatar is hilarious!!!
--
 
an abrigded list of all the people who have been accused of being the antichrist

nero
pope leo X
martin luther
napoleon
hitler
saddam hussein
bin laden



keep in mind that these are just the ones i know about. there are probably about 10-20 other famous people who have been accused.

long story short, jesus said 'i'll be back', he never came back, ever since then everytime someone gains power or a new technology comes along that is abnormal people look for the end of the world and never find it. as long as scientific achievement isn't opposed by religious people i really don't care what anyone believes.
 
Crazier said:


So that's her name, huh? I've been looking for her for the past two years.

That's how I want to go.
--

That still might hurt a little. I think I would rather be raptured. But if not I would rather die in my sleep after a great session with my wife.
 
The Nature Boy said:
buddy good stuff. Although i disagree with you on this stuff.... for now anyway.

But one thing about the apocolypse... you say that there becomes a one world government. Why would a one world government start a nuclear war? wouldn't it be starting a war with itself?
"

No problem. Your entitled to your opinion. If I didnt experience Christ first hand, Id be doubting alot too. But what clinched it for me, besides seeing God, was honest introspection and observing others. The whole ying yang thing.


Your questions.

To answer your question, look at things from a Biblical persepective. Without interpreting future events through a Christian paradigm, things dont make sense.

God in the begining created a whole bunch of angels. The king angel, Lucifer, became pridefull and turned away from God. he was cast out of heaven and sentanced to the physical realm until God decreed otherwise. Now whether Satan, formerlly Lucifer, is real or metaphorical, I do not know. I see good and evil within each person, so I assume we dont need a spiritual devil with a pitchfork whispering diabolical suggestions into our ear to do evil acts. Anyhow, throughout time, this real or metaphorical force of evil has plauged humanity with affliction, strife, deciet, all leading to wars ect....

The end times, or tribulation described in Revelations, suggests the real or metaphorical devil finds a *physical incarnation* and becomes leader of the one world government. At this point, whether Satan was imagined or not, comes into existence in a physical form. His name is the beast, or the Anti Christ. Together with the false prophet, his buddy, they turn everyone from traditional religions, especially Christianity ( because One World Government values unity above all else)

Once the 3 1/2 year period of peace elapses after the rapture (rapture - a debated future event prophsied in the NT where obediant living Christians are taking to heaven to escape the apocolypse), the leader of the One World Government, the Anti-Christ, or Satan incarnate, incites conflict between the territorial superpowers, and nuclear war enuses.

After God banished Satan from heaven, he vowed kill and destroy the one thing God cares most about - humans.

Which brings up the whole question of y God would allow Satan to come into existence anyway..... i dont have the answer to that.
 
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For those that believe this will make us "safer" via monitoring terrorist, criminals, etc in airports, federal buildings, etc:

I'll take a quote from the article.

Just a computer chip - about the size of a grain of rice - that would be difficult to remove and tough to mimic.

Notice the word "tough".
It's currently "tough" to steal an ssl session and hack into someones bank account.
It's currently "tough" to bypass corporations firewalls and Intrusion Detection Systems until you plant an agent on an unsuspecting computer to monitor/steal information.
It's also "tough" to create false passports/ID's.

While all of this illegal activity is "tough" to do it CAN STILL BE DONE!

Everyone having a microchip in their body, from a religious view I disagree but from a logical view it makes sense, will only help to monitor the majority of the upstanding civilian population. It in no way will affect high tech terrorists/criminals as they WILL find a way to bypass the inherent security of the chip. It's been proven in almost every case. If something can be made secure it can also be cracked.
 
FreakMonster said:
I don't see a One world government happening anytime soon. At least in my lifetime. So what are we worrying about?

Are you kidding? All you ever here is Global this global that, world health organization, the UN is just the start of a one world govt. Remember the US soldier that was court marshalled because he wouldn't wear the UN uniform,
 
though i still don't believe what you guys are saying, i have my own view of the way the world will end when Christ comes, you both have really thought this out. it makes for a great movie though, meggido.

i'm not trying to down you guys but if you really read into the bible, it says no man knows the hour, not the angels or even Jesus knows, only the father. when the heavens open and Christ returns that's the end. he'll come like a thief in the night.

either way, whatever happends, as long as i'm gone i could care less what goes on after i'm out of here. i'm dead, so it don't effect me none. :)
 
Nature Boy,

The mark of the beast is figurative. it is all figurative.

Revelation is basically saying. "in order to be a citizen in the world, you'll need this mark".

Now there is discussion of a mark that could fit this bill.

I personally don't think it was divinely inspired. i think it is the words of a lonely, and learned man, who understood people really well, absent today's preconception that everything is OK.

Look at Caesar's remarks. it is all wisdom. Dinosaurs survived 150 million years, with walnut sized brains. People will be lucky to get 10000 more.
 
Hey Crazier, almost everyone gets a chance to know God and if you do not (but remain free of sin) you go to the 2nd Heaven. But if you don't want to know God and Jesus, you deny them--or are not even interested and eventually Satan will gradually get a hold of you (wether it be through porn, other people, alcohol, drugs, etc). Cancer doesn't kill you in a millisecond, it takes months and years to build up then it takes you. As you see the latter sinful things I mentioned just get you lower and lower (and have experienced it for myself). The Glory of God is something that is not worth the risk of not taking and missing out on:

("Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried: and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Rev. 2:10

"Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." Rev. 3:11)

and why people do, is way beyond me, closing your mind is when you close your mind on Jesus. Having a weak mind is when saying: there is no God and coming into conformity with this world it is easy to say that, but to believe in some one you can not see but you know is there takes a strong mind: "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."(John 20:29)

For he that endures to the end, will gain eternal life, avoid the second death (spiritual death) inherit the 3rd Heaven (The highest heaven), and will rule over many kingdoms!:
...
Rev. 2:25: "But that which ye have already hold fast till I come."

Rev. 2:26: "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Rev. 2:27: "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Rev. 2:28: "And I will give him the morning star."

Rev.2:29: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Is it worth to choose nothingness, or satans way to even risk losing such?

*shakes eight ball*

all signs point to no

Don't let any body take your crown, yourself included!


The euro is also another step towards unificatin. If they are not some sort of microchips then another likely way of identification is a bar code, that holds a number connected to computers with each number identifying you but it will also have to have the "666" in it, ex: 12768975 666. or every third digit, 12 6 78 6 97 6 45 or they could do it any number of ways (the number of his "name")or in liminal or subliminal form, people who have the mark will also need to have a means of identifying each other so it is not just figurative(remember: forehead or right hand). But if it is a bar code by tattoo it would be an inconveinient way, microchips in that manner seem more plausible for them. But remember that the anti-christ is not going to just jump out and say that he is the antichrist, he could be even anyone even in the churches. To destroy an organization the most efficient way is to do it from the inside (much like a cancer or AIDS destroy from the inside). He will "deceive" by miracles (Rev. 13:14).
 
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