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The body needs fat to burn fat?
- Thread starter 36drew
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No. The body does not "need" fat to burn fat. There are multiple energy sources the body uses for energy consumption, carbs/glucose, fats, and stored fats. Burning fat, while a popular terminology in dieting, is not very precise in what the body is doing. Your body just sees energy sources, and uses them. It isn't using an energy source to really "burn" another energy source, it is using an energy source to operate in whatever you are doing.
So if you are jogging, for the body to continue to operate in that fashion it has to consume energy. From what I understand, the body burns carbs/sugars first, then immediately available fats, then stored fats. When you start working out your body is burning everything else first and then your stored fats, which is when weight loss will occur.
So you don't "need" fat to burn fat. You need to get past all your other energy sources and start using stored fat as an energy source to enter a weight loss zone.
This is why I have always stuck to the notion that cardio should be done after lifting instead of prior to lifting. Since cardio is a higher intensity workout, then you will burn the most energy performing it. So the notion is that you would use up most if not all your immediate energy sources while lifting, and then when you started cardio you would already be close or in the zone for burning your stored energy source, stored fat, and thus theoretically be spending the gym time that is in a higher intensity zone using your stored fats.
Hopefully that was what you were asking.
So if you are jogging, for the body to continue to operate in that fashion it has to consume energy. From what I understand, the body burns carbs/sugars first, then immediately available fats, then stored fats. When you start working out your body is burning everything else first and then your stored fats, which is when weight loss will occur.
So you don't "need" fat to burn fat. You need to get past all your other energy sources and start using stored fat as an energy source to enter a weight loss zone.
This is why I have always stuck to the notion that cardio should be done after lifting instead of prior to lifting. Since cardio is a higher intensity workout, then you will burn the most energy performing it. So the notion is that you would use up most if not all your immediate energy sources while lifting, and then when you started cardio you would already be close or in the zone for burning your stored energy source, stored fat, and thus theoretically be spending the gym time that is in a higher intensity zone using your stored fats.
Hopefully that was what you were asking.
pintoca
New member
roofus, there are a couple of things in that post I would like to disagree with...
there are 3 main energy systems: ATP, Anaerobic (carbs) and Aerobic (fat oxidation).
Depending on what you are doing, you will use one or a combination of the three systems, since they are all different in their sources and duration, for example, you cannot run a marathon on ATP (it only lasts a few seconds of explosive energy) and you cannot deadlift 500lbs on the Aerobic system (which is specially designed for providing long-lasting, not too explosive energy).
I agree, though, on the notion of cardio after lifting, for 2 reasons:
1. you will not be tired for your lifts from all that cardio
2. you will be mostly carb-depleted, which should mean you will run your cardio less on carbs (burning sugar) and more on anything else (I dare not to say 100% fat, since it depends on many things).
The body is a VERY complicated thing and even though we all follow the same basic rules, we are all different engines.
as a final point, when people say the body needs fat to burn fat, what they mean is that the body needs EFAs to HELP burn more fat. The complete methabolical path of the reactions that lead to this is described in Udo Erasmu's "Fats that kill, Fats that Heal" book, which is of course, a very recommendable one to read, specially in this fat-phobia era.
just my 2 cents
there are 3 main energy systems: ATP, Anaerobic (carbs) and Aerobic (fat oxidation).
Depending on what you are doing, you will use one or a combination of the three systems, since they are all different in their sources and duration, for example, you cannot run a marathon on ATP (it only lasts a few seconds of explosive energy) and you cannot deadlift 500lbs on the Aerobic system (which is specially designed for providing long-lasting, not too explosive energy).
I agree, though, on the notion of cardio after lifting, for 2 reasons:
1. you will not be tired for your lifts from all that cardio
2. you will be mostly carb-depleted, which should mean you will run your cardio less on carbs (burning sugar) and more on anything else (I dare not to say 100% fat, since it depends on many things).
The body is a VERY complicated thing and even though we all follow the same basic rules, we are all different engines.
as a final point, when people say the body needs fat to burn fat, what they mean is that the body needs EFAs to HELP burn more fat. The complete methabolical path of the reactions that lead to this is described in Udo Erasmu's "Fats that kill, Fats that Heal" book, which is of course, a very recommendable one to read, specially in this fat-phobia era.
just my 2 cents
alex2678
New member
You will lose fat on a typical low fat diet but there's also reason to suggest that boosting EFA intake can increase fat mobilization, decrease protein breakdown and making the psychological aspects of dieting easier for the individual. If you're eating low fat, the remaining calories have to come from somewhere. Your only other options are carbohydrates and proteins. Consuming either one of those without fats can cause some rather unstable insulin levels throughout the day leaving the dieter hungry and craving foods. Throw some EFA's in there and that problem can be limited to an extent.
Not to mention hormones are made from fats and cholesterol. Low fat diets can decrease testosterone and ultimately cause more muscle to be lost in the process. Very low carbohydrate intakes have also been linked to low T3 levels. So it would be in your best interest to have a combination of all 3 macronutrients if you're looking to burn fat efficiently.
Not to mention hormones are made from fats and cholesterol. Low fat diets can decrease testosterone and ultimately cause more muscle to be lost in the process. Very low carbohydrate intakes have also been linked to low T3 levels. So it would be in your best interest to have a combination of all 3 macronutrients if you're looking to burn fat efficiently.
ummmm... kinda, but a little clarifcation:
ATP is the stuff that fires muscle fibers and is created continuously regardless of activity duration or intensity. Its HOW that ATP get replenished, via the KREBS cycle that gives to words we use almost continuously. The krebs, or citric cycle, is a complex series of reactions following glycolysis converting carbohydrates and lipids (sugars and fats) into ATP (adenosine triphosphate) the body's main source of energy. The process gets fired either in the big fat juicy oxygenated activity range of slow/moderate steady exertion we all like to call 'aerobic' or in the wicked, savage, generally lean and mean party where oxygen is not in plentiful supply, the 'anaerobic' pathway.
The aerobic pathway will allow for greater fat burning DURING the activity itself. In the presence of oxygen fat burning kicks in after a while and all is well in Lovetown. The anaeobic pathway uses sugars, namely polysachcarides, in great quantities until the sugars available are not sufficient, then will start fracturing proteins to use as energy if constant high intensity is prolonged past glycogen storage or access to blood glucose. Eating your muscle to fuel exercise. Bad, dog, bad. Gluconeogenis, to you and me. Now, the big boner about HIIT is that you are HAMMERING in an anaerobic state, so why is it so wonderbar? EPOC. Excess Postworkout Oxygen Consumption: in short order, that means that for HOURS after your HIIT is done, your muscles are screaming to consume oxygen and thereby fats, even when you are NO LONGER EXERCISING. very very simple explanation, Macro: dont shoot me.
So, long story short. ATP is the stuff that fires muscle fibers, we get the terms Aerobic and Anaerobic from which pathway adenosine triphosphate is replenised via the krebs cycle. Either way, ATP is firing those fibers.
ATP is the stuff that fires muscle fibers and is created continuously regardless of activity duration or intensity. Its HOW that ATP get replenished, via the KREBS cycle that gives to words we use almost continuously. The krebs, or citric cycle, is a complex series of reactions following glycolysis converting carbohydrates and lipids (sugars and fats) into ATP (adenosine triphosphate) the body's main source of energy. The process gets fired either in the big fat juicy oxygenated activity range of slow/moderate steady exertion we all like to call 'aerobic' or in the wicked, savage, generally lean and mean party where oxygen is not in plentiful supply, the 'anaerobic' pathway.
The aerobic pathway will allow for greater fat burning DURING the activity itself. In the presence of oxygen fat burning kicks in after a while and all is well in Lovetown. The anaeobic pathway uses sugars, namely polysachcarides, in great quantities until the sugars available are not sufficient, then will start fracturing proteins to use as energy if constant high intensity is prolonged past glycogen storage or access to blood glucose. Eating your muscle to fuel exercise. Bad, dog, bad. Gluconeogenis, to you and me. Now, the big boner about HIIT is that you are HAMMERING in an anaerobic state, so why is it so wonderbar? EPOC. Excess Postworkout Oxygen Consumption: in short order, that means that for HOURS after your HIIT is done, your muscles are screaming to consume oxygen and thereby fats, even when you are NO LONGER EXERCISING. very very simple explanation, Macro: dont shoot me.
So, long story short. ATP is the stuff that fires muscle fibers, we get the terms Aerobic and Anaerobic from which pathway adenosine triphosphate is replenised via the krebs cycle. Either way, ATP is firing those fibers.
A
Aries13
Guest
This is a REALLY good article about this question!
http://www.supplements2000.com/nutrition/essfats.html
http://www.supplements2000.com/nutrition/essfats.html
Why do so many people recommend Cardio in the AM on an empty stomach, instead of Cardio post-lifting?
It all depends on your goal & your personal preference.. I've cut very successfully using both methods.
However, to clarify your statement, it is rarely recommended you do cardio AM on empty THEN train ... I see cardio POST weight training recommended ALL the time, if not the majority of the time. AM cardio on empty is usually suggested if that is an off day from weight of the weights are left to the PM...
AM cardio on empty for SOME people, may appear optimal for fat burning, but you will have people knock that & post of research stating why it's good/bad/etc & vice versa … all comes down to trying it out and seeing what works for you & for YOUR goals .
However, to clarify your statement, it is rarely recommended you do cardio AM on empty THEN train ... I see cardio POST weight training recommended ALL the time, if not the majority of the time. AM cardio on empty is usually suggested if that is an off day from weight of the weights are left to the PM...
AM cardio on empty for SOME people, may appear optimal for fat burning, but you will have people knock that & post of research stating why it's good/bad/etc & vice versa … all comes down to trying it out and seeing what works for you & for YOUR goals .
Right, that's what I was referring to - doing it on off days or when you lift in the PM.
I *hate* cardio, but what I was planning on doing is stop eating whatever the hell I want like 4 servings of ice cream right before bed, peanuts at work, drinking red bulls, etc.
(I do this on a regular basis and have a semi-6pack right now), and start doing cardio.
Ie - 20 minutes of fast paced cardio, 3 times a week as soon as I get out of bed (empty stomach). Then having a meal, then going to work, after this I'd be going directly to the gym to lift, then coming home. I usually just go to work, then lift afterwards.
I *hate* cardio, but what I was planning on doing is stop eating whatever the hell I want like 4 servings of ice cream right before bed, peanuts at work, drinking red bulls, etc.
(I do this on a regular basis and have a semi-6pack right now), and start doing cardio.
Ie - 20 minutes of fast paced cardio, 3 times a week as soon as I get out of bed (empty stomach). Then having a meal, then going to work, after this I'd be going directly to the gym to lift, then coming home. I usually just go to work, then lift afterwards.
LOL Ya I'd say you'll probably sleep better if you stop carb loading before bed, but that's just me ... if it works for You & fits with in your daily caloric range, then hey, why fix what's not broken? I can't help but think although you may look good on the outside, your insides are hating you for the junk.Pikaberdot said:
3 days 20 Minutes HIIT cardio AM on empty or sip on a DWOS "During workout Shake" , try it both ways... some people can't do AM cardio with anything in his/her stomach ... I usually mix my ISO & Gatorade & sip on that throughout my Cardio and training .. helps with my endurance amongst other things
Thanks - I'll def. give both a try and see what works best.
I don't think I look too good on the outside yet, that's why I am going to try and do things the right way and see where it gets me.
I don't think I look too good on the outside yet, that's why I am going to try and do things the right way and see where it gets me.
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Aries13
Guest
I asked a similar question about that.... Sassy wrote that as long as its been 1-2hrs after a meal and I do cardio its like emty stomach cardio ... Ive done it and like it BUT am-emty HIIT is just something I prefer since I like getting the cardio done with and I like cardio breeze too
I dont have a kick ass cardio workout without it... I dont take it all the time but when I do OH MAN !!! I figure I cant take CB later in the day so I just get the cardio done in the am, and then other days when I lift, I will do it post workout!
I dont have a kick ass cardio workout without it... I dont take it all the time but when I do OH MAN !!! I figure I cant take CB later in the day so I just get the cardio done in the am, and then other days when I lift, I will do it post workout!
fireman664
New member
Aries13 said:I asked a similar question about that.... Sassy wrote that as long as its been 1-2hrs after a meal and I do cardio its like emty stomach cardio ... Ive done it and like it BUT am-emty HIIT is just something I prefer since I like getting the cardio done with and I like cardio breeze too
I dont have a kick ass cardio workout without it... I dont take it all the time but when I do OH MAN !!! I figure I cant take CB later in the day so I just get the cardio done in the am, and then other days when I lift, I will do it post workout!
Easy to moderate AM cardio on an empty stomach is what works best for me. The theory being that you have fasted for 8 or so hours and your body has to use stored fat as one of its sources of energy. I know some disagree, and some dont. I am not sure, that is why I tried it, and it works well for me. If I cant get to it in the am then I do it post weights. i dont really sweat it either way though, as long as I am doing it. I figure at most its just a little bit better one way or the other, since it ultimatly comes down to cals in vs cals out.
jasonwilks
New member
wow pretty much everything that I read on these forums is the complete opposite what all the articles say on this site here that I recently just read... http://www.rippednaturally.com/ With all this confusion, I don't know who to belive.
SgtSlaughter
New member
^^^*Bunny* said:
Listen to the Bunny.And let safe experimentation be YOUR truth and fact for yourself and your goals.
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