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leonidas33
Guest
i am doing 125mg/wk of testosterone (trt)... should I not do creatine with this amount? what is the minimum amount of testosterone you can do with creatine at the same time?
Creatine
cannot hurt ( I like RawMCC and Amplify02) it actually makes sense for people to use it ON or OFF since having high ednogenous Creatine stores ( in this case from an exogenous source) = the ability to do more work, lift more, have more endurance etc.
There was a study where Obese people were given creatine and it allowed them to MOVE more since they now had larger stores of ATP which led to a healthier them.
cannot hurt ( I like RawMCC and Amplify02) it actually makes sense for people to use it ON or OFF since having high ednogenous Creatine stores ( in this case from an exogenous source) = the ability to do more work, lift more, have more endurance etc.
There was a study where Obese people were given creatine and it allowed them to MOVE more since they now had larger stores of ATP which led to a healthier them.
Last edited:
holy ghost
New member
solid info! thanks!
i agree I use a custom caps blend......
On my non injection days i take 1g pre and post workout
also cafiene and some other goodies
i agree I use a custom caps blend......
On my non injection days i take 1g pre and post workout
also cafiene and some other goodies
druncanwaria
New member
with sugar? why is that?ksbst9mm said:
Anyone i cycle my creatine and in between cycles i use nutrabolics ester stack
nemesis 2027
New member
ksbst9mm said:
On workout days I take 3-4 grams with 100% grape juice pre work out, and 3-4 grams with protien shake post work out.
On off days I take 5 grams with grape juice.
No real science to it, but it works good for me.
A
ALIN
Guest
leonidas33 said:
You can still use creatine...5-10g per day...or 2-3g CEE
navigatorrs
New member
Sugar?? Please more info on y to take sugar?? thanks broksbst9mm said:
FWIW, I'm on TRT as well and I take creatine regularly. I don't know if it's one, the other, or both, but I get ridiculous pumps now that I didn't before and I don't intentionally train for it either.
Creatine is good, with or without test, though some people respond better than others. YMMV but it's certainly worth a shot and it's super cheap so even if you don't like it, you aren't out anything.
Creatine is good, with or without test, though some people respond better than others. YMMV but it's certainly worth a shot and it's super cheap so even if you don't like it, you aren't out anything.
holy ghost
New member
creatine over BCAAS and LGLUT and all that other sep shit
you can get those from a good protein blend
you can get those from a good protein blend
Creet be sweet, On or OFF juice. But it my greel make da bitches squeal.
Take it 24/7/365. Dank! Peace out. HHMFPACIYA!!!
Take it 24/7/365. Dank! Peace out. HHMFPACIYA!!!
ksbst9mm
New member
navigatorrs said:
you need to take creatine with sugar... whatever kind you want because your body needs the insulin spike in order for your muscles to uptake and use the creatine.... otherwise you just piss it out. if you look on your creatine package... if its a drink mix it will already have the sugar in it... they sometimes call it a delivery system or whatever but all it is really is just sugar. if you take just normal plain creatine you gotta add the sugar yourself... i usually use dextrose.
ksbst9mm
holy ghost
New member
halfcenturian said:
Damn old timer passs the blunt this way
holy ghost said:
You got me LMFAO........... I love your jive, bro. Addy too.
You tell it like it is. Very cool. ME, I'm not trippin' - just messin'.
Me and the blunt split up after 30 years together.
Peace. Keep on it.
holy ghost
New member
Damn you kicked old MJ to the curb......
yous a cool dude, thanx for the kind words
30 years is a lot of smokin! lol
yous a cool dude, thanx for the kind words
30 years is a lot of smokin! lol
Pat_McCrotch
New member
It nees to have a transport "system" to get it in the cells. It is believed and I have seen studies in magazines that show it is absorbed and used more effectivly when glucose is added.
slat1
New member
Omega you might want to expand on what I wrote below...
I don't know who told people grape juice or sugar will help you absorb your creatine.
It will do the opposite.
You will shit it out.
You need to hit a certain level of the glycemic index to achieve an insulin spike.
To do so you will need at minimal Dextrose (75gs) or Waxy Maize (50gs).
Sucrose will not give you that response and is counterproductive.
This information has been available for well over five years!!!!
I don't know who told people grape juice or sugar will help you absorb your creatine.
It will do the opposite.
You will shit it out.
You need to hit a certain level of the glycemic index to achieve an insulin spike.
To do so you will need at minimal Dextrose (75gs) or Waxy Maize (50gs).
Sucrose will not give you that response and is counterproductive.
This information has been available for well over five years!!!!
ksbst9mm
New member
slat1 said:
i totally agree with you slat! i think i even mentioned dextrose in this thread already... maybe its just me but i have not seen you post in a while... good to see you around, you always gave me good advice when i was a noob to this board a few years ago!!
ksbst9mm
slat1
New member
ksbst9mm said:
I have been busy.
Lots of injuries.
Barely been working out or eating for two months.
I am down to 240. The funny thing is I am getting lean as hell.
Been working a lot of shows too. Its tiring but I get to work with IFBB Pro's, National level competitors, guru's who work with pro's, people who work in labs and write on supps and just a lot of really cool people.
Three more to go and I am done for the season!
Hmmmm... I should take a picture so you guys can laugh at how small I am now!
Coming up!
ksbst9mm
New member
slat1 said:I have been busy.
Lots of injuries.
Barely been working out or eating for two months.
I am down to 240. The funny thing is I am getting lean as hell.
Been working a lot of shows too. Its tiring but I get to work with IFBB Pro's, National level competitors, guru's who work with pro's, people who work in labs and write on supps and just a lot of really cool people.
Three more to go and I am done for the season!
Hmmmm... I should take a picture so you guys can laugh at how small I am now!
Coming up!
i think the last one we (or at least myself) saw of you was the one standing in the bathtub!! lol. anyway sounds like you being busy is alot of fun!! good for you, and take care of your self!
ksbst9mm
slat1
New member
slat1 said:I have been busy.
Lots of injuries.
Barely been working out or eating for two months.
I am down to 240. The funny thing is I am getting lean as hell.
Been working a lot of shows too. Its tiring but I get to work with IFBB Pro's, National level competitors, guru's who work with pro's, people who work in labs and write on supps and just a lot of really cool people.
Three more to go and I am done for the season!
Hmmmm... I should take a picture so you guys can laugh at how small I am now!
Coming up!
I feel soft and small.
I may have torn a tendon off the bone fighting a buddy of mine who played for the NHL Rangers.
That is what you get when you are old and fight a professional fighter... I'm stupid.
http://thebull.bulknutrition.com/magmain.php?issueID=3&pageID=48
hey Slat I am not trying to avoid you
I just dont have time these next two week to give more ten one sentence answers lol
sorry bro
hey Slat I am not trying to avoid you
I just dont have time these next two week to give more ten one sentence answers lol
sorry bro
slat1
New member
Here is the study Omega posted.
It looks as though the "carbohydrate" they refer to is "glucose" which according to Harvard can come from grape sugar.
*So would grape juice have to be 'natural'?
Harvard lists them this way:
fruit sugar (fructose),
corn or grape sugar (dextrose or glucose),
and table sugar (sucrose)
Glucose:
1. A monosaccharide sugar, C6H12O6, occurring widely in most plant and animal tissue. It is the principal circulating sugar in the blood and the major energy source of the body.
2. A colorless to yellowish syrupy mixture of dextrose, maltose, and dextrins containing about 20 percent water, used in confectionery, alcoholic fermentation, tanning, and treating tobacco. Also called starch syrup
Study starts below (exellent read btw)
Both alpha lipoic acid (ALA) and creatine monohydrate have become staple supplements for athletes and bodybuilders. The former has been shown in a number of studies to increase glucose uptake into skeletal muscle. The benefit of this is clear to athletes, since a portion of the extra glucose taken up in the presence of ALA will be stored as glycogen for use as fuel for working muscles, helping to stave off fatigue.
The ergogenic effect of creatine is believed to be due to an increase in intracellular phosphocreatine concentrations and to increased phosphocreatine and adenosine triphosphate (ATP) resynthesis rates (1,2).
Phosphocreatine and ATP are the body’s so called "energy currency". When foodstuffs are consumed, the food is converted ultimately into ATP and phosphcreatine, which are used to fuel the body’s metabolic processes. Creatine may exert other anabolic effects as well. In one study myotubes, the basic building blocks of muscle tissue, were incubated in a medium containing creatine (3). It was observed that the addition of creatine led to an increase in insulin like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) as well as other so called myogenic regulatory factors (MRF). Both IGF-1 and MRF contribute to muscle hypertrophy, and this may be a contributing factor to the strength gains seen with creatine supplementation.
Yet a third phenomenon may be responsible for the ergogenic effects of creatine. The force of contraction of skeletal muscle is a function of intracellular calcium ion concentration. Potassium ion (K+) concentration on the other hand dampens the contractile response to Ca (2+) ions.
Green et.al. (5) showed that creatine uptake was 60% greater when creatine was consumed along with a carbohydrate compared to creatine consumed alone. Carbohydrate ingestion elevates insulin, and it is believed that the combination of insulin and simultaneous glucose transport into muscle tissue is responsible for the increased uptake of creatine.
Creatine is well known as a cell volumizer; water enters the cell along with creatine. This dilutes the K+ concentration allowing for a greater contractile response to calcium ions (4).
Green et.al. (5) showed that creatine uptake was 60% greater when creatine was consumed along with a carbohydrate compared to creatine consumed alone. Carbohydrate ingestion elevates insulin, and it is believed that the combination of insulin and simultaneous glucose transport into muscle tissue is responsible for the increased uptake of creatine. The amount of carbohydrate found by Green et.al required to maximize creatine uptake was 100 grams per 5 grams of creatine. This is a considerable amount of carbohydrate.
Since ALA has been shown to enhance glucose transport into muscle tissue, this prompted the authors of the current paper under discussion (6) to ask whether the consumption of ALA along with creatine and much smaller amounts of carbohydrate (to stimulate insulin secretion) might enhance creatine uptake. If so, this would avoid the excess carbohydrate calories required to maximize creatine uptake. This would benefit individuals with glucose intolerance or those people on a cutting cycle or ketogenic diet wishing to minimize carbohydrate consumption.
In the current study (6), the authors took 20 males 18-32 years of age who characterized themselves as recreational weightlifters, training moderately 3 times per week, and randomly assigned them to one of three groups. One group ingested 4 x 5 gm/day of creatine monohydrate alone (CR). The second group ingested 4 x 5 gm/day creatine plus 4 x 25 gm/day sucrose (CRS). The third group ingested 4 x 5 gm/day creatine, 4 x 25 gm/day sucrose, and 4 x 250 mg/day of ALA (CRSLA). The subjects were put on this regimen for seven days.
All subjects experienced significant weight gain after the 7-day period, averaging 1.7 kg, with no significant differences between the groups. Muscle biopsies were taken and total creatine and phosphocreatine were measured in each group. In the creatine and creatine plus sucrose groups there was no significant increase in either parameter. This is not surprising since the amount of sucrose ingested per gram of creatine was much less than the amount studies have shown necessary to enhance creatine uptake.
However, the creatine/sucrose/ALA group showed significant increases in both phosphocreatine and total creatine content in the skeletal muscle.
Alpha lipoic acid, when ingested with creatine and small amounts of carbohydrate significantly increases total intracellular creatine content as well as phosphocreatine content.
Phosphocreatine, the active form of creatine in that it is a store for high-energy phosphate, increased by approximately 20%. Total creatine content increased by about 15%.
Alpha lipoic acid, when ingested with creatine and small amounts of carbohydrate significantly increases total intracellular creatine content as well as phosphocreatine content. Since many chemical agents used by bodybuilders and athletes, including anabolic steroids, growth hormone, and thyroid hormone promote hyperglycemia and insulin resistance, the use of ALA with creatine allows for much lower carbohydrate intake and may well benefit those athletes with glucose intolerance.
1) Casey A, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Howell S, Hultman E, Greenhaff PL. Creatine ingestion favorably affects performance and muscle metabolism during maximal exercise in humans Am J Physiol. 1996 Jul;271(1 Pt 1):E31-7
2) Greenhaff PL, Bodin K, Soderlund K, Hultman E. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on skeletal muscle phosphocreatine resynthesis. Am J Physiol 1994 May;266(5 Pt 1):E725-30
3) Louis M, Van Beneden R, Dehoux M, Thissen JP, Francaux M. Creatine increases IGF-I and myogenic regulatory factor mRNA in C(2)C(12) cells. FEBS Lett. 2004 Jan 16;557(1-3):243-7.
4) Murphy RM, Stephenson DG, Lamb GD. Effect of creatine on contractile force and sensitivity in mechanically -skinned single fibers from rat skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2004 Jul 2
5) Green AL, Simpson EJ, Littlewood JJ, Macdonald IA, Greenhaff PL. Carbohydrate ingestion augments creatine retention during creatine feeding in humans. Acta Physiol Scand. 1996 Oct;158(2):195-202 6) Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG. Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phosphagen concentration. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2003 Sep;13(3):294-302
It looks as though the "carbohydrate" they refer to is "glucose" which according to Harvard can come from grape sugar.
*So would grape juice have to be 'natural'?
Harvard lists them this way:
fruit sugar (fructose),
corn or grape sugar (dextrose or glucose),
and table sugar (sucrose)
Glucose:
1. A monosaccharide sugar, C6H12O6, occurring widely in most plant and animal tissue. It is the principal circulating sugar in the blood and the major energy source of the body.
2. A colorless to yellowish syrupy mixture of dextrose, maltose, and dextrins containing about 20 percent water, used in confectionery, alcoholic fermentation, tanning, and treating tobacco. Also called starch syrup
Study starts below (exellent read btw)
Both alpha lipoic acid (ALA) and creatine monohydrate have become staple supplements for athletes and bodybuilders. The former has been shown in a number of studies to increase glucose uptake into skeletal muscle. The benefit of this is clear to athletes, since a portion of the extra glucose taken up in the presence of ALA will be stored as glycogen for use as fuel for working muscles, helping to stave off fatigue.
The ergogenic effect of creatine is believed to be due to an increase in intracellular phosphocreatine concentrations and to increased phosphocreatine and adenosine triphosphate (ATP) resynthesis rates (1,2).
Phosphocreatine and ATP are the body’s so called "energy currency". When foodstuffs are consumed, the food is converted ultimately into ATP and phosphcreatine, which are used to fuel the body’s metabolic processes. Creatine may exert other anabolic effects as well. In one study myotubes, the basic building blocks of muscle tissue, were incubated in a medium containing creatine (3). It was observed that the addition of creatine led to an increase in insulin like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) as well as other so called myogenic regulatory factors (MRF). Both IGF-1 and MRF contribute to muscle hypertrophy, and this may be a contributing factor to the strength gains seen with creatine supplementation.
Yet a third phenomenon may be responsible for the ergogenic effects of creatine. The force of contraction of skeletal muscle is a function of intracellular calcium ion concentration. Potassium ion (K+) concentration on the other hand dampens the contractile response to Ca (2+) ions.
Green et.al. (5) showed that creatine uptake was 60% greater when creatine was consumed along with a carbohydrate compared to creatine consumed alone. Carbohydrate ingestion elevates insulin, and it is believed that the combination of insulin and simultaneous glucose transport into muscle tissue is responsible for the increased uptake of creatine.
Creatine is well known as a cell volumizer; water enters the cell along with creatine. This dilutes the K+ concentration allowing for a greater contractile response to calcium ions (4).
Green et.al. (5) showed that creatine uptake was 60% greater when creatine was consumed along with a carbohydrate compared to creatine consumed alone. Carbohydrate ingestion elevates insulin, and it is believed that the combination of insulin and simultaneous glucose transport into muscle tissue is responsible for the increased uptake of creatine. The amount of carbohydrate found by Green et.al required to maximize creatine uptake was 100 grams per 5 grams of creatine. This is a considerable amount of carbohydrate.
Since ALA has been shown to enhance glucose transport into muscle tissue, this prompted the authors of the current paper under discussion (6) to ask whether the consumption of ALA along with creatine and much smaller amounts of carbohydrate (to stimulate insulin secretion) might enhance creatine uptake. If so, this would avoid the excess carbohydrate calories required to maximize creatine uptake. This would benefit individuals with glucose intolerance or those people on a cutting cycle or ketogenic diet wishing to minimize carbohydrate consumption.
In the current study (6), the authors took 20 males 18-32 years of age who characterized themselves as recreational weightlifters, training moderately 3 times per week, and randomly assigned them to one of three groups. One group ingested 4 x 5 gm/day of creatine monohydrate alone (CR). The second group ingested 4 x 5 gm/day creatine plus 4 x 25 gm/day sucrose (CRS). The third group ingested 4 x 5 gm/day creatine, 4 x 25 gm/day sucrose, and 4 x 250 mg/day of ALA (CRSLA). The subjects were put on this regimen for seven days.
All subjects experienced significant weight gain after the 7-day period, averaging 1.7 kg, with no significant differences between the groups. Muscle biopsies were taken and total creatine and phosphocreatine were measured in each group. In the creatine and creatine plus sucrose groups there was no significant increase in either parameter. This is not surprising since the amount of sucrose ingested per gram of creatine was much less than the amount studies have shown necessary to enhance creatine uptake.
However, the creatine/sucrose/ALA group showed significant increases in both phosphocreatine and total creatine content in the skeletal muscle.
Alpha lipoic acid, when ingested with creatine and small amounts of carbohydrate significantly increases total intracellular creatine content as well as phosphocreatine content.
Phosphocreatine, the active form of creatine in that it is a store for high-energy phosphate, increased by approximately 20%. Total creatine content increased by about 15%.
Alpha lipoic acid, when ingested with creatine and small amounts of carbohydrate significantly increases total intracellular creatine content as well as phosphocreatine content. Since many chemical agents used by bodybuilders and athletes, including anabolic steroids, growth hormone, and thyroid hormone promote hyperglycemia and insulin resistance, the use of ALA with creatine allows for much lower carbohydrate intake and may well benefit those athletes with glucose intolerance.
1) Casey A, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Howell S, Hultman E, Greenhaff PL. Creatine ingestion favorably affects performance and muscle metabolism during maximal exercise in humans Am J Physiol. 1996 Jul;271(1 Pt 1):E31-7
2) Greenhaff PL, Bodin K, Soderlund K, Hultman E. Effect of oral creatine supplementation on skeletal muscle phosphocreatine resynthesis. Am J Physiol 1994 May;266(5 Pt 1):E725-30
3) Louis M, Van Beneden R, Dehoux M, Thissen JP, Francaux M. Creatine increases IGF-I and myogenic regulatory factor mRNA in C(2)C(12) cells. FEBS Lett. 2004 Jan 16;557(1-3):243-7.
4) Murphy RM, Stephenson DG, Lamb GD. Effect of creatine on contractile force and sensitivity in mechanically -skinned single fibers from rat skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2004 Jul 2
5) Green AL, Simpson EJ, Littlewood JJ, Macdonald IA, Greenhaff PL. Carbohydrate ingestion augments creatine retention during creatine feeding in humans. Acta Physiol Scand. 1996 Oct;158(2):195-202 6) Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG. Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phosphagen concentration. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2003 Sep;13(3):294-302
holy ghost
New member
guys all that needs to be said is most aas increase phosphocreatine uptake
= Better use of ATP
= Better use of ATP
slat1
New member
Here we go. Good info on PWO drinks with creatine. When to take them, how much etc.
by Will Brink
Most people are aware that nutrient timing is as important as nutrient composition. In other words, it’s not just what you eat, but when you eat it that gives optimal results. As the man says, “Timing is everything.” Consuming the right foods at the right time can have positive effects on body composition: which means more muscle and less body fat.
Health-conscious people are told to avoid simple carbohydrates, and for good reasons. It’s not true all the time and in every situation, however. Following a heavy workout, there is a metabolic “window” - so to speak - where the body preferentially shuttles glucose into the liver and muscles to replace lost glycogen via both insulin-dependent and non-insulin-dependent transport mechanisms. Translated, this means your body will shuttle carbs and protein into the tissues you want (muscle) instead of storing them as fat after a workout.
To carry the analogy further, the metabolic window doesn’t stay open indefinitely, so you need to take advantage of the opportunity while it lasts.
A number of studies have found that a post-workout drink containing simple, high-GI carbs and protein increases protein synthesis dramatically. The two work synergistically to create an anabolic environment that’s superior to either nutrient alone. In addition, some recent work suggests that a pre-workout drink may be superior to a post-workout drink, and consuming both may be best of all!
Research looking at the issue has gotten a great deal of attention in the sports nutrition world. One particularly interesting study, “Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.” (Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206), compared the anabolic responses to a carbohydrate and amino acid supplement taken either before or after resistance exercise. It’s counterintuitive to think taking in these nutrients before the workout is superior to post-workout, but according to this small study:
“…results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution [carb/amino acid drink] immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis...”
Since this study was published, several researchers have proposed that providing amino acids/protein and carbs both before and after a resistance workout represents the best of both worlds. This is the premise of the book “Nutrient Timing” by John Ivy and Robert Portman. They present compelling evidence that the right mixture of nutrients, taken at key points in the muscle growth cycle, will optimize improvements in muscle growth, strength, and power, as well as enhance recovery from exercise.
Overall, there’s a solid body of scientific evidence to support using a blend of fast-acting carbs and amino acids/protein for both pre- and post-workout nutrition. It’s definitely a “hot” topic among sports researchers. It’s also a topic that seems to create endless speculation and conversation with non-scientists looking to get the most of their time in the gym. Everyone wants to hear the latest word, it seems.
So what’s the latest word?
The place to discover cutting edge research on a topic is to attend conferences where researchers present their most recent findings. This is a much faster way of getting current info than reading scientific journals, as it can take many months (even years!) to publish the work researchers submit for review and publication.
Each year, I attend various scientific conferences that apply to my interests, research, and business. This year I attended the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) conference in Las Vegas. The ISSN is a relatively new organization and this was their third conference to date.*
A session on the role of nutrition in exercise and recovery was particularly interesting. One standout study**, “Effects of protein and carbohydrate on anabolic responses to resistance training” looked at the effects of carbs, creatine, and whey - taken alone and in different combinations - on LBM and/or strength. The conclusion was that the combination of all three (whey, carbs, and creatine) was the most effective and that there appeared to be a true synergism between these nutrients. This study also confirmed that these nutrients, taken both before and after training, have a greater effect on lean mass and strength than when taken at other times of the day. I don’t think that comes as a big surprise to most people “in the know” about such things, but it’s good to see it confirmed under controlled conditions.
The take home lesson is this: if you want to optimize your nutrition to gain muscle mass and strength, it’s vital to consume a combination of fast-acting carbs and protein during the workout “window.”
Here’s what I recommend: mix 30-50g of high quality whey with 75-100g of high GI carbs (such as glucose, maltodextrin, etc.,) and 3-5g of creatine monohydrate and drink half immediately before you hit the gym, and the other half immediately following your workout.
To make it extra simple, I use a pre-made carb drinks (e.g., TwinLab Ultra Fuel, etc.) and add the whey and creatine to that and mix it up. You can “roll your own” of course by buying various carb powders in bulk. I just like the convenience of the pre-made carb mixtures myself.
As you can see, I don’t use a complicated formula for the amounts of protein, carbs, and creatine to take pre- and post-workout. Why? Because - while focusing on such minutiae would make me look smart - it probably won’t have any effects on you. Following the K.I.S.S. (“Keep It Simple, Stupid”) system works best here. The above formula is more then sufficient to supply the nutrients required to take advantage of the metabolic window. Some people take it a step further by dividing the formula into three parts, to be consumed before, during and after the workout, but I don’t see the need for that either. I doubt there are any real benefits to it, but more research is needed there.
This isn’t a miracle mixture, of course. If your training and/or nutrition over the rest of the day aren’t up to snuff, this pre- and post-workout drink won’t make up for those shortcomings. In conjunction with a good training program and diet however, combining pre- and post-workout nutrition will clearly add to your success. And remember, it’s not rocket science, so don’t make it any more complicated then it needs to be.
*I recommend that anyone interested in the topic of sports nutrition - lay person or scientist - should join the ISSN.* Visit their web site at http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.org for more information.
**Presented by Dr. Paul Cribb
by Will Brink
Most people are aware that nutrient timing is as important as nutrient composition. In other words, it’s not just what you eat, but when you eat it that gives optimal results. As the man says, “Timing is everything.” Consuming the right foods at the right time can have positive effects on body composition: which means more muscle and less body fat.
Health-conscious people are told to avoid simple carbohydrates, and for good reasons. It’s not true all the time and in every situation, however. Following a heavy workout, there is a metabolic “window” - so to speak - where the body preferentially shuttles glucose into the liver and muscles to replace lost glycogen via both insulin-dependent and non-insulin-dependent transport mechanisms. Translated, this means your body will shuttle carbs and protein into the tissues you want (muscle) instead of storing them as fat after a workout.
To carry the analogy further, the metabolic window doesn’t stay open indefinitely, so you need to take advantage of the opportunity while it lasts.
A number of studies have found that a post-workout drink containing simple, high-GI carbs and protein increases protein synthesis dramatically. The two work synergistically to create an anabolic environment that’s superior to either nutrient alone. In addition, some recent work suggests that a pre-workout drink may be superior to a post-workout drink, and consuming both may be best of all!
Research looking at the issue has gotten a great deal of attention in the sports nutrition world. One particularly interesting study, “Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.” (Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206), compared the anabolic responses to a carbohydrate and amino acid supplement taken either before or after resistance exercise. It’s counterintuitive to think taking in these nutrients before the workout is superior to post-workout, but according to this small study:
“…results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution [carb/amino acid drink] immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis...”
Since this study was published, several researchers have proposed that providing amino acids/protein and carbs both before and after a resistance workout represents the best of both worlds. This is the premise of the book “Nutrient Timing” by John Ivy and Robert Portman. They present compelling evidence that the right mixture of nutrients, taken at key points in the muscle growth cycle, will optimize improvements in muscle growth, strength, and power, as well as enhance recovery from exercise.
Overall, there’s a solid body of scientific evidence to support using a blend of fast-acting carbs and amino acids/protein for both pre- and post-workout nutrition. It’s definitely a “hot” topic among sports researchers. It’s also a topic that seems to create endless speculation and conversation with non-scientists looking to get the most of their time in the gym. Everyone wants to hear the latest word, it seems.
So what’s the latest word?
The place to discover cutting edge research on a topic is to attend conferences where researchers present their most recent findings. This is a much faster way of getting current info than reading scientific journals, as it can take many months (even years!) to publish the work researchers submit for review and publication.
Each year, I attend various scientific conferences that apply to my interests, research, and business. This year I attended the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) conference in Las Vegas. The ISSN is a relatively new organization and this was their third conference to date.*
A session on the role of nutrition in exercise and recovery was particularly interesting. One standout study**, “Effects of protein and carbohydrate on anabolic responses to resistance training” looked at the effects of carbs, creatine, and whey - taken alone and in different combinations - on LBM and/or strength. The conclusion was that the combination of all three (whey, carbs, and creatine) was the most effective and that there appeared to be a true synergism between these nutrients. This study also confirmed that these nutrients, taken both before and after training, have a greater effect on lean mass and strength than when taken at other times of the day. I don’t think that comes as a big surprise to most people “in the know” about such things, but it’s good to see it confirmed under controlled conditions.
The take home lesson is this: if you want to optimize your nutrition to gain muscle mass and strength, it’s vital to consume a combination of fast-acting carbs and protein during the workout “window.”
Here’s what I recommend: mix 30-50g of high quality whey with 75-100g of high GI carbs (such as glucose, maltodextrin, etc.,) and 3-5g of creatine monohydrate and drink half immediately before you hit the gym, and the other half immediately following your workout.
To make it extra simple, I use a pre-made carb drinks (e.g., TwinLab Ultra Fuel, etc.) and add the whey and creatine to that and mix it up. You can “roll your own” of course by buying various carb powders in bulk. I just like the convenience of the pre-made carb mixtures myself.
As you can see, I don’t use a complicated formula for the amounts of protein, carbs, and creatine to take pre- and post-workout. Why? Because - while focusing on such minutiae would make me look smart - it probably won’t have any effects on you. Following the K.I.S.S. (“Keep It Simple, Stupid”) system works best here. The above formula is more then sufficient to supply the nutrients required to take advantage of the metabolic window. Some people take it a step further by dividing the formula into three parts, to be consumed before, during and after the workout, but I don’t see the need for that either. I doubt there are any real benefits to it, but more research is needed there.
This isn’t a miracle mixture, of course. If your training and/or nutrition over the rest of the day aren’t up to snuff, this pre- and post-workout drink won’t make up for those shortcomings. In conjunction with a good training program and diet however, combining pre- and post-workout nutrition will clearly add to your success. And remember, it’s not rocket science, so don’t make it any more complicated then it needs to be.
*I recommend that anyone interested in the topic of sports nutrition - lay person or scientist - should join the ISSN.* Visit their web site at http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.org for more information.
**Presented by Dr. Paul Cribb
holy ghost
New member
nice site I just joined.
