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I'm noticing SLIGHT atrophy. Enough for me to notice, but not to the point that it is obvious to a stranger. should i start HCG now or just wait until the third week.
testicular atrophy
- Thread starter the small soldier
- Start date
KD1 said:
me thinks you took that out of context. I meant that IF a stranger saw them they wouldn't say, " oh wow his balls are tiny" then again maybe they would?? but I was being serious.
I would say start now. No reason to wait until they are more shutdown. If they are becoming atrophied, that means they are no longer receiving LH from your body to tell them to make testosterone, or at least they are receiving less. HCG replaces that LH.
automaticj5
New member
this is the point of a good pct if you dont have hcg -- or even if you dont correct?
to get the testosterone back to normal in your own body..
to get the testosterone back to normal in your own body..
automaticj5 said:
I have tons of HCG but why wait until PCT if they are shutting down?
KD1 said:
That is true. However using 250iu twice a week for 6-8 weeks during a cycle should not have that affect.
mus1cjunk1e said:
Btw, there are guys on HRT like Nelson and HalfCent that have been using hcg for a long time and just take small breaks to resensitize. They, so far, are still sensitive to it.
Actually, I should ask, how long is your cycle anyway?
mus1cjunk1e said:
I'm in the second of 12 weeks. I didn't even expect atrophy for another week at least but who can predict these things
GoldenDelicious
New member
am i the only one who thinks that a thread titled "testicular atrophy" started by a guy called "the small soldier" is fucking hilarious? 
the small soldier said:
If you are running a long estered test, I would say start running the hcg now at 250iu twice a week right up through the last week. Then while you wait to start your pct (2 weeks if you are using a long estered test), you will be resensitizing to natural LH. However I'm not an expert.
GoldenDelicious said:am i the only one who thinks that a thread titled "testicular atrophy" started by a guy called "the small soldier" is fucking hilarious?
well thanks for your help mr Pharmacology
GoldenDelicious
New member
oh like anyone could concentrate under these conditionsthe small soldier said:
GoldenDelicious said:oh like anyone could concentrate under these conditions
well laugh it but, but maybe when you're done rolling on the floor you can help me out?
GoldenDelicious said:oh like anyone could concentrate under these conditions
well laugh it up but, but maybe when you're done rolling on the floor you can help me out?
GoldenDelicious
New member
hahahahaahaaaaaa!!!
ahem.
hehehe
lol
ok look, the last time looked at pct, it was about 2 years ago, and i have since gone a bit blurry on it. the guy whose pct advice always rang true for me went by the name of swale. his website can be found at allthingsmale.com
his protocol goes as follows (cutting and pasting)
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.
Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!
Here it is:
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.
I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).
All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
==============================
the beginning part pertains to you specifically.
anyway what you should now do is do a mad search of all the online forums and track down some people who actually followed swales advice, and if yorue confident that it is effective, then i would follow his hcg protocol. personally, i think it rings true, but of course, you should ook into it for yourself until youre convinced that it is the right thing to do (or not) and make a decision
ahem.
hehehe
lol
ok look, the last time looked at pct, it was about 2 years ago, and i have since gone a bit blurry on it. the guy whose pct advice always rang true for me went by the name of swale. his website can be found at allthingsmale.com
his protocol goes as follows (cutting and pasting)
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.
Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!
Here it is:
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.
I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).
All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
==============================
the beginning part pertains to you specifically.
anyway what you should now do is do a mad search of all the online forums and track down some people who actually followed swales advice, and if yorue confident that it is effective, then i would follow his hcg protocol. personally, i think it rings true, but of course, you should ook into it for yourself until youre convinced that it is the right thing to do (or not) and make a decision
Greatercow
New member
LOL @ small soldier loooooool
but seriously great pct post man i did not know an AI during pct wasnt recommended as i think it is in a sticky on here? i might be wrong
but seriously great pct post man i did not know an AI during pct wasnt recommended as i think it is in a sticky on here? i might be wrong
it is not size you need to worry about, rather it is the texture--
eddymerckx said:
Please elaborate...
i have to find the articles but the gist is that if they lose their solid (not solid, but i have never tried to sqeeze hard enough to squish) feel and end-up soft or pliable--let me find some cites.mus1cjunk1e said:
goku_kakarot77
New member
the small soldier said:
u can use it now while still on at about 250iu every 4-5 days
Burpees said:
Looks like the doctor went to Banned Camp
night train
New member
mus1cjunk1e said:
Yes!
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