Test Prop and T-bol cycle

[babushka]

Hi fellas!
For my second cycle I am looking for lean mass bulker.I am planning to run 100mg eod prop.Would it be beneficial if I add some T-bol for first 4 weeks?Or prop only would be fine?
So the cycle going to be
1-8 week 100mg eod prop
1-4 week 40mg T-bol
8-12 week 20mg nolva ed
1-8 week HCG 500iu week
What do you guys think?Is PCT allright or I have to add clomid.

P.S.I am also concerned and kind of scared of orals.Friend of mine from gym was on deca-sust-dbol(60mg a day) cycle,and on the week 8 he has to go to ER cause his eyeballs turned yellow.

 

[ArmaniAK47]

Hi fellas!
For my second cycle I am looking for lean mass bulker.I am planning to run 100mg eod prop.Would it be beneficial if I add some T-bol for first 4 weeks?Or prop only would be fine?
So the cycle going to be
1-8 week 100mg eod prop
1-4 week 40mg T-bol
8-12 week 20mg nolva ed
1-8 week HCG 500iu week
What do you guys think?Is PCT allright or I have to add clomid.

P.S.I am also concerned and kind of scared of orals.Friend of mine from gym was on deca-sust-dbol(60mg a day) cycle,and on the week 8 he has to go to ER cause his eyeballs turned yellow.

No offense but your friend was foolish..
Most of our oral steroids are 17A drugs. (Tbol and Dbol are..)
Valium is also 17A and so you can compare it to people prescribed Valium..

As long as you use a reasonable dose for a shorter time frame you should be okay..
60mg is totally unnecessary.. I've used 10mg of Dbol a day with zero side effects and good results..

As much as 20 or 30mg per day for the first 3-4 weeks would usually be considered safe..

Some oral steroids are considered safer even with the same alteration... Anavar for instance causes few people problems liver wise..

And oral Primobolan (Methenolone Acetate) is a different, more mild alteration but less of the drug is delivered to your blood.. But super easy on your liver..

 

[babushka]

Would this cycle looks fine the way it is?Should I drop T-bol or not (I just get to paranoid about liver) and bump prop to 125 mg eod.

Concerning my friend-60mg a day of dbol is not a super-high dosage some people pop 100mg a day and no issues it just depend on the person I guess.He also had pretty bad food poisoning about a year ago and it might damaged his liver before the roids,anyway doctor told him not to do any roids no more unless he wants cirrosis and die.

 

[Ox-Sandra-Loan]

No offense but your friend was foolish..
Most of our oral steroids are 17A drugs. (Tbol and Dbol are..)
Valium is also 17A and so you can compare it to people prescribed Valium..
quote]

I've seen this said in these forums several times now, and I just want to make a few notes on chemistry and nomenclature, to correct some errors and hopefully impart a bit of knowledge (to an already knowledgable group)

17a in steroid nomenclature refers to the 17th carbon (all molecules are given a numbering system in order that chemists might know to which specific atom in the molecule people are referring.) In steroid chemistry, 17-alpha alkylated refers to an alkyl substituent (almost always methyl, but occasionally ethyl..ie: nilevar) on the number 17 carbon...in the alpha position. Most of the steroids we are familiar with have a hydroxyl substituent on the 17-beta position. The alkylation at the 17-alpha position is what allows oral steroids to survive first pass metabolism, but also makes it become somewhat hepatotoxic.

Valium cannot possibly be 17a alkylated, because it doesn't even have 17 carbons, thus no possible way for alkylation at a 17 position.
Many drugs (maybe even most?) are metabolized in the liver, at least to some extent. This sometimes leads to hepatotoxicity, but not necessarily so. There are many pathways of hepatic metabolism (oxidation, reduction, hydroxylation, glucuronidation, conjugation, etc)of many chemicals/toxins/drugs, some more effecient, some less....some more toxic or harder on the liver...and others less so.
So I think the comparison to valium is completely innacurate, as its undergoes oxidative metabolism by a cytochrome p450 pathway, with other metabolites diazepam undergoing other metabolic pathways (ie: glucuronidation)
Many alkylated steroids undergo reduction of the A-ring, followed by hydroxylation, or conjugation, so really there is no valid comparison between these compounds and their various routes of hepatic metabolism.
People can take valium for years with no liver problems, but I'm not sure the same could be said of most alkylated steroids.

Sorry for getting so technical, but I'm a biochemistry/pharmacology nerd.

 

[ArmaniAK47]

Ox-san that kicks ass!

I'm trying to get into pharmacology/biochemistry too..

I knew some of that but you sound like you really have your shit down.. A nurse told me Valium was 17-alpha alkylated.. maybe she had just forgottten lol.

after looking up valium I think it may be 1-methyl?

 

[Ox-Sandra-Loan]

Ox-san that kicks ass!

I'm trying to get into pharmacology/biochemistry too..

I knew some of that but you sound like you really have your shit down.. A nurse told me Valium was 17-alpha alkylated.. maybe she had just forgottten lol.

after looking up valium I think it may be 1-methyl?

Haha thanks. I did biochem for 6 years in university with a smattering of pharmacology here and there, and now working in a mostly unrelated field, which kinda sucks. So I'm considering going back to school, but..well...the pay sucks as a student.

If you're considering biochemistry/pharmacology, I would suggest to be prepared to go the whole distance and get the PhD.

 

[babushka]

bump