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Test is Useless...if you want to look good

BigAndy69

BigAndy69

Your Canadian Idol
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In my family, I have yet to meet any older men who have kept there hair; so obviously I'm concerned.

Here's something to think about, test converts to DHT which we know is responsible for balding. Finasteride blocks most of DHT's effects, but isn't DHT one of the main reasons why Test is so effective? Isn't DHT responsible for most of the mass gains?

If it is, then using Finasteride would make Test useless. If you want to use test, you need to accept the fact that you may lose your hair, and there is nothing you can do about it since Finasteride hinders gains.

Wouldn't Deca be a better choice if you want to keep your hair? It converts to DHN which is much easier on the scalp. It isn't as strong as Test, but at least you get to keep your hair.
 
Silent Method said:
So IS DHT responsiblt for most mass gains on a test cycle?
Click to expand...

That's what I've been told by very reliable people in the gym. It's also what I've been reading.

I've never really thought about it until today, when I talked to a fellow gym rat. This guy used nearly 1g of test a week, and barely gained a pound. No way was it fake, since he's used the same amps from the same batch in another cycle. The only difference was that he added Proscar for the first time, since on his last cycle, he was starting to bald.

I forgot to ask him how much proscar he was using, but I'm assuming 1.25mg ED.
 
BigAndy69 said:
In my family, I have yet to meet any older men who have kept there hair; so obviously I'm concerned.

Here's something to think about, test converts to DHT which we know is responsible for balding. Finasteride blocks most of DHT's effects, but isn't DHT one of the main reasons why Test is so effective? Isn't DHT responsible for most of the mass gains?

If it is, then using Finasteride would make Test useless. If you want to use test, you need to accept the fact that you may lose your hair, and there is nothing you can do about it since Finasteride hinders gains.

Wouldn't Deca be a better choice if you want to keep your hair? It converts to DHN which is much easier on the scalp. It isn't as strong as Test, but at least you get to keep your hair.
Click to expand...

u are correct bro, using Proscar will hinder your gains....
the only solution would be using TOPICAL dht blockers on the hair or I suppose, just accept it....:D
 
Re: Re: Test is Useless...if you want to look good

NORMA-MAN said:


u are correct bro, using Proscar will hinder your gains....
the only solution would be using TOPICAL dht blockers on the hair or I suppose, just accept it....:D
Click to expand...

I don't use androgens anyway. Maybe when I'm older, I'll use test.

But, are the topical DHT blockers effective? They are certainly not as effective as finasteride.
 
i think proscar should be used only in test only cycle...NOT in all cycles...it shouldnt hinder your gainz by much...if you need to take it then take it
 
ultragainz said:
i think proscar should be used only in test only cycle...NOT in all cycles...it shouldnt hinder your gainz by much...if you need to take it then take it
Click to expand...

I disagree, I think in some cases, it can make Test completely useless. Test and Finasteride is a very Bad combination IMO.
 
Test is converted to DHT through the 5 alpha reductase enzyme and NADPH .Only a small percentage of test ( 4% ) converts to DHT. Around 2 % converts to androstanediol and 1-5% into Estradiol. DHT is a more potent androgen and has a greater affinity to bind to androgen receptor site only in some tissue, but muscle tissue responds better to Test then DHT. Also studies have shown that DHT isn't the cause of baldness but one of the androgens it converts to, which happens more freqeuntly in scalp tissue. The products on the market block the conversion of DHT to this androgen in the scalp.

TEST IS GOOD!!
 
Two solutions to the hair loss problem associated with DHT, both are equally effective.

1. Shave all your hair off and go for the bald look.
2. Hair club for men.

Seriously though, Nioxin shampoo seems to do a decent job for me when I'm on a heavy test cycle of 600-1000mg/week. It blocks DHT only in the scalp so it won't hinder gains. Plus, it makes your hair smell like a warm summer breeze.
 
DHT wont cause much muscle growth, it's good for hardening the muscles. I.E. IP's Masteron is not drostanalone (SP?) it's pure DHT and he's even admitted this, now try injecting it see how what happends.
 
Other than this post I have never heard once that DHT causes the growth from test. I use proscar everytime I use test and always have good growth I know however that isnt too scientific :) Does anyone else know anything about this? From a more scientific view than the guys at the gym :D j/k Your whole point of view that test is useless is based on some reliable people in your gym.. Id need more info before believing that. Anyone got the 411 on this?
 
Slopain said:
Other than this post I have never heard once that DHT causes the growth from test. I use proscar everytime I use test and always have good growth I know however that isnt too scientific :) Does anyone else know anything about this? From a more scientific view than the guys at the gym :D j/k Your whole point of view that test is useless is based on some reliable people in your gym.. Id need more info before believing that. Anyone got the 411 on this?
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that Test is useless, it was just a way of getting ppl to look at my thread.:D

I do beleive that Finasteride is useless for bodybuilding. This is according to my friend in the gym. This means nothing to anyone here, but he's a super-heavyweight North American Championship competitor. I beleive him if he tells me from experience that a gram of test didn't do anything for him when he was using Proscar.

I don't know how much Finasteride he was using and whether that made a difference.

This isn't the first time I've heard of this, I remember reading a few articles about the subjected, including one at anabolicextreme.com

If someone has something more scientific, please share.
 
I buy my nizoral 2% at walmart, so it isn't hard to find, at least in Canada.
Topical spironolactone is effective, I was in the middle of my first cycle and I could see noticeable hairloss from the dbol, as soon as I started using the spiro it stopped right away. If you're prone to mpd, then I would use it regardless of whether or not your on a cycle.
 
barnidge said:
Another Con of not using finastride with Test is the Increased risk of prostate cancer.
Click to expand...

Is this accurate? I thought finasteride helps lower the risk of prostate cancer associated with Test. Thought I read that.
 
Bluto said:


Is this accurate? I thought finasteride helps lower the risk of prostate cancer associated with Test. Thought I read that.
Click to expand...

That's what he said.

There is no real scientific data that proves that high levels of DHT are associated with an increase risk of prostate cancer. It does enlarge your prostate, but whether it increase your risk of cancer is debatable. However, it is accepted by most of the medical community that an increased level of DHT does increase your risk of prostate cancer.
 
test and proscar

This fucking sucks
I have ben using proscar for the first 2 weeks of my cycle and im doing 500 mg a week of sust
If I stop now, will it not change my gains because The sust has not began to work yet or is the proscar in my body for a long time
Somebody please reply
 
any way you look at it you have to realise the sides that can happen when taking AS....If its test or deca to winny...everything can possible effect you in the long run...now if you worried about loosing your hair so bad then maybe you shouldnt take any AS in the first place...but we all knwo there is ways to help reduce any of the short term and long term sides such as prosar...but some people claim that it hinders your gains...so what does this say...we need more tests to indicate the true results..but till then its your call which way you go..and i choose test with out the proscar...and test of deca any day for deca is way to over rated and i feel the sides you get from deca dont justify the gains...my 2cents g...
 
DHT is only bad in the presence of high estrogen (at least for MPH)...

in men ESTROGEN is the enemy and the cause of MOST side effects.. take those aromatase inhibitors..

dht effects: use nizoral, take green tea (inhibits 5a reduction), take your zinc (estro and dht).. if you feel compelled a low dose of finasteride...

btw- cant one way or the other about saw palmetto.. evidence is conflicting but many do swear by it
 
macrophage69alpha said:
DHT is only bad in the presence of high estrogen (at least for MPH)...

in men ESTROGEN is the enemy and the cause of MOST side effects.. take those aromatase inhibitors..

dht effects: use nizoral, take green tea (inhibits 5a reduction), take your zinc (estro and dht).. if you feel compelled a low dose of finasteride...

btw- cant one way or the other about saw palmetto.. evidence is conflicting but many do swear by it
Click to expand...

Mac what info to you know about proscar inhibiting gains. Last two days I am hearing that DHT is "more anabolic than test" cant find any facts on it - what do you know or think? :P
 
the best effect from DHT is CNS.. strength... as far as anabolism.. not in any systemic models.. in some isolated tissues (may increase bone mass more)(in animal studies this has been implied though to extrapolate is VERY UNWISE, especially since this activity may be non-ar mediated).

so on the whole.. the answer is NO.. dht is not more anabolic.


DHT is implicated in reducing aids related wasting (normal test levels and low dht found in those with significant wasting)
 
Last edited:
PEOPLE WAKE UP proscar, like propecia, only works after 3 months and if it works cause some people dont get any results from it
 
Thanks for clearing that up Macro.

BTW, this is an old article from www.anabolicextreme.com issue 20, rumors!:

I really don't know what to beleive anymore:


Question: I'm losing my hair and have asked the question
on several discussion boards as to whether finasteride
will inhibit my gains. I want to use finasteride to prevent a
chrome dome but don't want to hurt my gains either. What
are hearing on the street about this?

Answer: Finasteride is a fantastic drug for saving your
hair. I fully recommend it for this purpose!

I must warn you though that I'm hearing that it destroys
nearly all of the potency of testosterone. I know a couple
of guys taking nearly a gram of this potent steroid and
making greatly diminished gains while using finasteride.

I first though that this was due to bogus testosterone but
several reports like this came into me which made me
think something was up. The first thing I did was check the
research on the anabolic/androgenic potencies of
testosterone and DHT.

I found something extraordinary!

All of the literature showed DHT to be 2-3 times MORE
anabolic than testosterone but with the SAME androgenic
potency. Believe it or not, DHT is a better, safer and more
effective steroid than testosterone!

How is this possible? What about all the bad stuff on
DHT? It seems that most of testosterone's actions are
enacted by its conversion into DHT—both good and bad!
Why does testosterone cause muscle growth? DHT! Why
does testosterone promote hair loss? DHT! Unfortunately,
testosterone converts to DHT in "androgenic" tissues
(prostate, hair, skin) at higher rates than in other parts of
the body. This makes testosterone have a very low
anabolic/androgenic ratio. On the other hand, DHT added
directly to the body cts uniformly in nearly all tissues and
thus has a better ratio. There is not preferential action or
conversion in "androgenic" tissues. When injected,
testosterone is less potent than DHT because not all of it
is converted into DHT. Per injected milligram, you will
get much higher concentrations of DHT in your blood with
injectible DHT rather than injectible testosterone. And
remember, DHT is the active metabolite of testosterone!

Back to your question, finasteride will GREATLY
diminish any gains from testosterone. Not all but most
(because finasteride prevents only about 70% of the
conversion into DHT). I know one person who used a
complete inhibitor of DHT production and with 800mg of
testosterone per week saw basically nothing. With
testosterone, you can either have your hair or have your
muscle but you can't have it both ways.
 
polysorbate 80

Hey guys try a shampoo that contains polysorbate 80. It has been proven to block DHT.. Do some reasearch on it!
 
"the best effect from DHT is CNS.. strength..."


yes, that is exactly what I experience with proscar. I ran a gram of test with it and got no increase in training aggression (did get bigger though). Later I ran just 350mg without proscar and got great strength gains.
 
You Canadian dudes are lucky because you can get 2 percent Nizoral without a script.
All we can get is 1 percent and it is total bullshit. I say that because it is absolutely
f*cking ridiculous to assume that the American public is to stupid to deal with the
"awesome" responsibility of having extra strong dandruff shampoo available at Wal-Mart.

I have used both shampoos, I happened to get some prescription Nizoral when my
daughter had some left over from when she had an irritated scalp. (She only needed
a few drops every few days and that left most of the bottle.)

I can't say that I've experienced any noticeable hair regrowth, but its good stuff
anyway. It smells great, gets all the flakes out of your hair, and if your scalp is ever
itchy it makes your head feel great.

As far as the DHT and anabolism, like the guy who was pointing out how Masteron
isn't great for muscle growth, I feel that it may be a little overrated. The reason I say
that is that I have heard that the "3 times more anabolic than testosterone"
statement actually concerned the prostate. However, I believe it may have been Greg
Zulak who wrote that so who knows.

I also agree with the statement that it isn't actually DHT that causes hairloss. I have
heard that there is a very lengthy scientific explanation for the process and saying
that DHT causes hairloss is actually just an oversimplification.
 
Finasteride and DHT: Effects on muscle development

Everyone following this thread please see my post "Finasteride and DHT: Effects on muscle development." The only "muscle building" effects of DHT in humans I can find is related to smooth vascular muscle cells - not skeletal muscle. I'd like all the input I can get so I can finalize my plan for my next cycle...

I'll try to post the link... http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=115632]Finasteride and DHT: Effects on muscle development
 
ON the nizoral shampoo. I found a link that allowed me to order the 2% from canada. I would post the link but I can't remember it. It was posted on EF over a year ago.
BTW I read somewhere that the shampoo is good for acne. I've tried it a few times in the last week. My face is a little less oily.
 
goddamit. i'm dropping the finasteride. i used it once before on a sust/d-bol cycle and still got great strength gains. this was probably just due to the d-bol. i've been running test only for a few weeks now and have found myself thinking, "my last test only cycle went much better than this." fuck it. I shave my head clean with a razor anyway.
 
k, lets get fuckin real hear, who gives a shit about how much hair is on your head when you feel like you have to piss 24/7 because of a fuckin grapefruit sized prostate. Test in the long run will (in many physicians observations, not gym rats) cause that boy to kill you. I mean bros, theres sides and then there are SIDES that fuckin kill you ten years short, because of an extra five pounds. Proscar is a MUST on test, take proper anti e's, and 1 mg proscar a day, and gains wont be hindered worth shit.

painly
 
"Here's something to think about, test converts to DHT which we know is responsible for balding. Finasteride blocks most of DHT's effects, but isn't DHT one of the main reasons why Test is so effective? Isn't DHT responsible for most of the mass gains? "

finasteride is a good addition to ANY test cycle, no dht, no acne, no hair loss if you are predesposed to any of those. dht does not make test more effective so running test with finasteride will not compramise your gains, running finasteride with deca however will
 
FlexManning said:
You Canadian dudes are lucky because you can get 2 percent Nizoral without a script.
All we can get is 1 percent and it is total bullshit. I say that because it is absolutely
f*cking ridiculous to assume that the American public is to stupid to deal with the
"awesome" responsibility of having extra strong dandruff shampoo available at Wal-Mart.

I have used both shampoos, I happened to get some prescription Nizoral when my
daughter had some left over from when she had an irritated scalp. (She only needed
a few drops every few days and that left most of the bottle.)

I can't say that I've experienced any noticeable hair regrowth, but its good stuff
anyway. It smells great, gets all the flakes out of your hair, and if your scalp is ever
itchy it makes your head feel great.

As far as the DHT and anabolism, like the guy who was pointing out how Masteron
isn't great for muscle growth, I feel that it may be a little overrated. The reason I say
that is that I have heard that the "3 times more anabolic than testosterone"
statement actually concerned the prostate. However, I believe it may have been Greg
Zulak who wrote that so who knows.

I also agree with the statement that it isn't actually DHT that causes hairloss. I have
heard that there is a very lengthy scientific explanation for the process and saying
that DHT causes hairloss is actually just an oversimplification.
Click to expand...

Very well stated.

This is why I've sworn off Test for all-time.

Too many bloody complications.

No michelin man for me thank you.

Use Fina. 10X better.

Fonz
 
Fonz said:


Very well stated.

This is why I've sworn off Test for all-time.

Too many bloody complications.

No michelin man for me thank you.

Use Fina. 10X better.

Fonz
Click to expand...

what do you use for bulking cycles? list the most recent one
 
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