Supplement Stack for Your Critique

[stevehnsn]

Not sure if this belongs in the Steroids forum, but here we go...

Here is my info…

Currently 26 yrs, 5'7, 175 lbs. I would post a progress log on this web site if desired. I am just coming off a cutting phase in which I went from 203 @ 19.5% to 175 @ 9%, keeping about 95% of my strength.

I want to keep 75% of gains (which is why I will probably improve the PCT outlined below), and get my bench over 300, squat over 450, deadlift over 450, all with perfect form. All of these lifts have been at these weights at some point in my life and now I want them all to be there at the same time. If I can add a few pounds here and there and total 1300 I will be psyched. I’d also like to gain about 5-7 lbs of solid muscle when all is said and done.

The Products:
4-AD: (Oral) EP 4-AD Select
S1+: (Transdermal) 1-T @ 100mg, 4-AD @ 150mg
1-AD: (Oral) EP 1-AD
M1T: (Oral) Undergroud Labs M1T
6-OXO: (Oral) EP 6-OXO
ProLiver: Bulk Nutrition
--> N-Acetyl-Cysteine 1000 mg
--> Milk Thistle 600 mg
----> (80% standardized provides 480 mg Silymarin)
ZMA: Biotest
Powerdrive: Biotest, used before every workout.

I went mainly with PH/PS because I need to stay relatively legal right now, and avoid pins. Not by my choice. Fina might be in the future for this guy. But I digress...

The Stack #1:
All numbers are in milligrams.
I used absorption co-efficient of .75 for oral and .50 for transdermal when putting the cycle together. These numbers reflect actual amounts consumed without the absorption calculated.

The Stack:
wk# - Sup: AM, Noon, PM, Daily Total
w1 - 4-ad: 200, 0, 200, 400
w1 - S1+: 0, 250, 0, 250
w1 - 1-ad: 200, 0, 0, 200
w1 - M1T: 0, 0, 5, 5
w2 - 4-ad: 300, 0, 300, 600
w2 - S1+: 0, 300, 0, 300
w2 - 1-ad: 200, 0, 0, 200
w2 - M1T: 0, 0, 5, 5
w3 - 4-ad: 300, 0, 300, 600
w3 - S1+: 0, 300, 0, 300
w3 - 1-ad: 200, 0, 0, 200
w3 - M1T: 0, 0, 5, 5
w4 - 4-ad: 200, 0, 200, 400
w4 - S1+: 0, 200, 0, 200
w4 - 1-ad: 200, 0, 0, 200
w4 - M1T: 0, 0, 5, 5

Start PCT in Wk 4
wk# - Sup AM, Noon, PM
w4 - ProLiver 1 cap, 1 cap, 1 cap
w4 - ZMA 0, 0, 1 cap
w5 - 6-OXO 150, 150, 150
w5 - ZMA 0, 0, 1 cap
w5 - ProLiver 1 cap, 1 cap, 1 cap
w6 - 6-OXO 100, 100, 100
w6 - ZMA 0, 0, 1 cap
w6 - ProLiver 1 cap, 1 cap, 1 cap
w7 - 6-OXO 0, 0, 0
w7 - ZMA 0, 0, 1 cap
w7 - ProLiver 1 cap, 1 cap, 1 cap

The Reasons:
There are many reasons for the products I selected and for the setup of the stack.

M1T is the cheapest version of that product I could find. I opted to take it at night to avoid the lethargy sides as much as possible. Started with 5mg to see how my body responds, will work up to 10 or even 15 mg if possible.

EP 1-AD has received great reviews all over the web. I opted to take this in the morning to start my blood concentrations of 1-AD/1-T off right. I also thought about using an oral or transdermal 1-T here instead, but I really want to try this 1-AD.

S1+ has received great reviews all over the web. I will take this pre-workout or in the afternoon in order to sustain my levels of 1-T and 4-AD throughout the day and to give the workouts a boost. The reason I even looked at this in the first place was to give my body a break from orals in the middle of the day.

EP 4-AD Select is cheap. My first choice would have been Biotest 4-AD-EC, but it's kinda tough to fit into the budget. I decided to use a 4-AD to synergize with and combat the sides of, M1T and 1-AD/1-T.

6-OXO is not very cheap so I am only using it for 2 weeks, which I'm not very happy with right now. I would need two full bottles to extend PCT like I want to, so now I'm thinking about getting a bottle of Tribex for weeks 2-4, or just hitting two bottles of Tribex HARD for 4 weeks. My only concern is that 6-OXO is extremely popular in the stacks I've read about online, so two weeks might be enough. I would like to use 40/30/20/20 of Nolvadex, but for one I don't have a distributor, and two it's really quite expensive. I would like opinions on this if possible.

ProLiver is to combat the toxicity of the orals. My only concern with this is that I read in a few places that actually using liver protection during a cycle with orals will diminish absorption of the "supplements". So I've decided to start the liver protection during week 4, and run through week 7. If for some reason I can tell that my liver is hurting during the cycle, then I will start them early.

ZMA is to facilitate T production at night.

Will be powerlifting Westside style 3/4 days a week.
ME Chest, Traps, lite tris, Abs
Off
DE Legs, Back, Abs, Calves
Off
DE Chest, Shoulders, Tris, Abs
Off
ME Legs, Calves
Off
Extra workouts in the morning before work 2/3 days a week, mostly for shoulders, bis, abs, calves.

Minimal (+/- 20 mins) bike riding on a semi-daily basis to work and to the gym.

Diet: Maintenance calculated pre-cycle only.
Wk1 - Maintenance +500
Wk2 - Maintenance +1000
Wk3 - Maintenance +1500
Wk4 - Maintenance +1000
Wk5-7 Maintenance +500
Wk8-10 Calculate new maintenance and NEVER go below it.

Any questions, concerns, suggestions?
Go Red Sox!

 

[stevehnsn]

Can you guys give me a bit of feedback on this, I would REALLY appreciate it. I'm going to be away from the computer until next Monday, but I need to finalize the stack by Wednesday and would really like some intelligent comments/suggestions to refine and perfect my plan. Thanks so much!

 

[casualbb]

It's probably late now, but why stack so many of the same thing?

You've got sources of 4-ad, three sources of 1-test.

Since you've already consented to doing transdermal (which is a pain in the ass to apply, you might as well just use solely S1+.

 

[EL GAUCHO]

O-m-g!

 

[pooh bear]

Absolutely crazy stack. The s1+ has 4 ad in it already. And then you are going to add m1t on top off the 1t you are already taking? You obviously have done no homework whatsoever.

 

[stevehnsn]

After I thought about it for a couple more days after I posted it, and due to feedback from couple of sites on which I posted this stack idea, I decided to dumb-down the whole plan. I was obviously trying to cover too many bases at once, and try too many products at one time. Instead, I decided to go with:
4Derm 800mg ed. 400mg am, pm
M1T starting at 5 mg ed increased to 15 mg ed. am, pre-workout, pm dosing.

I was on the stack for two weeks and I had to be hospitalized for an alleged (they don't entirely know what was wrong with me) intestinal virus for 4 days. They put me on a liquid diet, which I still could only barely get down.

Final results: up 12 lbs in two weeks, down 10 lbs in four days. I haven't been able to get back into the gym yet, and the docs banned me from using anything other than a multi-vitamin. Fortunately I was not shut down at all due to the short cycle time. My liver enzymes were slightly elevated even though I had been taking ProLiver throughout the second week. I would probably use 4Derm again, although no one knows if it had anything to do with the virus. Not sure if I'd take the M1T again. I'd like to try ErgoPharm 1T someday.

casualbb - thank you for the only intelligent reply to my post, you were entirely right: keep it simple.

Pooh Bear - actually I did several months of homework before I put this together. Maybe you didn't know, but M1T and 1T are actually slightly different compounds due to their chemical nature. I don't appreciate the condescending remarks, and perhaps next time you should make an attempt at civility, keeping your negative comments in your head where they belong.

 

[d3track]

that second looks alot better, and then you can extend the pct, like you originally wanted to

 

[pooh bear]

After I thought about it for a couple more days after I posted it, and due to feedback from couple of sites on which I posted this stack idea, I decided to dumb-down the whole plan. I was obviously trying to cover too many bases at once, and try too many products at one time. Instead, I decided to go with:
4Derm 800mg ed. 400mg am, pm
M1T starting at 5 mg ed increased to 15 mg ed. am, pre-workout, pm dosing.

I was on the stack for two weeks and I had to be hospitalized for an alleged (they don't entirely know what was wrong with me) intestinal virus for 4 days. They put me on a liquid diet, which I still could only barely get down.

Final results: up 12 lbs in two weeks, down 10 lbs in four days. I haven't been able to get back into the gym yet, and the docs banned me from using anything other than a multi-vitamin. Fortunately I was not shut down at all due to the short cycle time. My liver enzymes were slightly elevated even though I had been taking ProLiver throughout the second week. I would probably use 4Derm again, although no one knows if it had anything to do with the virus. Not sure if I'd take the M1T again. I'd like to try ErgoPharm 1T someday.

casualbb - thank you for the only intelligent reply to my post, you were entirely right: keep it simple.

Pooh Bear - actually I did several months of homework before I put this together. Maybe you didn't know, but M1T and 1T are actually slightly different compounds due to their chemical nature. I don't appreciate the condescending remarks, and perhaps next time you should make an attempt at civility, keeping your negative comments in your head where they belong.

Obviously you didnt do your homework or you wouldnt of stacked all of that together, 1ad which converts into 1 test in the body along with 1test AND m1test? Dont come in here and talk your bullshit to me when you ask a question and everyone says how crazy of a stack it was then you attack. If you had done months of homework like you said you wouldnt of asked the question in the first place, it would of been obvious that NO ONE would stack all that together at one time.

 

[pooh bear]

Also I forgot to mention the 4ad is already in the s1+ also. Homework would of shown you that too. You must of blown up like a water balloon with all that 4 ad in you.

 

[stevehnsn]

Obviously you didnt do your homework or you wouldnt of stacked all of that together, 1ad which converts into 1 test in the body along with 1test AND m1test? Dont come in here and talk your bullshit to me when you ask a question and everyone says how crazy of a stack it was then you attack. If you had done months of homework like you said you wouldnt of asked the question in the first place, it would of been obvious that NO ONE would stack all that together at one time.

Whatever you say bro. Unlike you I didn't attack anyone, I did plenty of "homework", and quite frankly my original plan would have worked just fine. There's really no difference between using S1+ three times a day, or using a couple of different products once a day at different times, just so long as the aggregate intake ends up meeting my daily plan for both 4-AD, 1-T and M-1-T. The original stack was put together with the thought of mixing orals and transdermals, and trying several products at once. I changed it because I decided it would be a nuisance managing all the different bottle, and because it would be cheaper and I'd have less left over at the end of the cycle.

Incidentally, I don't know what exactly your problem is, but you should maybe have your rage issues looked into. It's probably not all that healthy to work yourself into such a fervor over an online post about supplements.