Stew- removing estrogen from agricuticals

[Justtryingnot2getfat]

remove estrogen from agricuticals= 20 Gm test prop for $75

you mentioned on thechick-plex thread that it was possible to remove estrogen from farm products.I was unaware that this was doable - well at least for those without access to a chem lab.

if there is a way - anyone - please do tell. My cattle would like to take test prop implants without that pesky estrodiol.

 

[Judge Smales]

There are test prop implants? Tell me more. And yes, there are some pretty simple home-brew techniques that you can use to separate out estrodiol from vet products, but I don't remember them off them off top of my head. Thee were mostly used w/ Revelor before Finaplix became so available, so they have fallen into disuse lately.

 

[Stew Meat]

You can remove the estrogen from basicly any farm product. Grind the pellets and mixing them with diethyl ether. Let it set and the solution will seperate and the estrogens will flloat to the top. Remove the crystals on the surface, and you have a mixture below of test prop. Allow the ether to evaporate and you have powerdered test prop. You can get diethyl ether from www.sciencealliance.com .

Cockdezl: Make a 1% NaOH solution by adding drain cleaner that contains pure lye to distilled water. You can use "Red Devil Lye." Add the crushed pellets to this and let it set stirring occasionally. The estrogen will eventuall seperate as it is soluable in the NaOH solution while the test prop is not. Drain solution in a coffee filter and the powder that is left is pure test prop. Wash several times and drain through filter to be sure all NaOH has been removed.

Chances are that one of the following techniqes will work. Make sure you buy a kit to convert the powder into injectable form...

Any scientists on this board have any objections to this or have anything they would like to add?




-Stew

 

[Superfrk]

What is the Name of the implant?????My cows need them to, well actualy used to be cows frozen steaks now, But would still be nice to know if I ever get some cows.

 

[Justtryingnot2getfat]

glory halleluya

if that actually works i can get 20 Grams (200mg x100) of test prop for $75 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

<----------- is dancing a jig now


how do i make sure that the 20mg per of estrodiol are really gone, ie time to float, fliters, make sure its a deep container, etc. - wouldnt want my bulls to start milking.

also, ur thoughts on any difference in quality of "human" vs animal roids - dont wanna become rob schnier



Judge, one fine brand name is Synovex H

 

[ItalMonster]

Animal has a kit which removes the estrogen from it, I believe what you're looking for is Synovex H.

 

[notpuff]

after its powder will it disolve in oil theres a huge ongoign debate wether you can make it pure test ?

 

[serge]

there is no fucking debate, i have done it, used it, no gyno awesome gains

 

[Andy13]

You can remove the estrogen from basicly any farm product. Grind the pellets and mixing them with diethyl ether. Let it set and the solution will seperate and the estrogens will flloat to the top. Remove the crystals on the surface, and you have a mixture below of test prop. Allow the ether to evaporate and you have powerdered test prop. You can get diethyl ether from www.sciencealliance.com .

Cockdezl: Make a 1% NaOH solution by adding drain cleaner that contains pure lye to distilled water. You can use "Red Devil Lye." Add the crushed pellets to this and let it set stirring occasionally. The estrogen will eventuall seperate as it is soluable in the NaOH solution while the test prop is not. Drain solution in a coffee filter and the powder that is left is pure test prop. Wash several times and drain through filter to be sure all NaOH has been removed.

Chances are that one of the following techniqes will work. Make sure you buy a kit to convert the powder into injectable form...

Any scientists on this board have any objections to this or have anything they would like to add?


-Stew

Stew-- Don't take this personally.. But there's no fucking way you are going to do this and then inject yourself with it.

The ether method is a fucking joke.

And you can ionize the pellets and extract with a few portions of toluene, but you will not be able to get all of the estrogen out. You will need a stronger base to deprotonate the estradiol to any appreciable degree...

The only some-what real way to do this would be to use column chromatography.. But the rf values for both compounds are so similar that it would be impossible to separate the estrogen.. Plus, you have to decide what solvent to use.

Dont even try this. I'm a little bit disapointed in you, Stew.

Andy

 

[serge]

andy, you can remove the esters from both molecules and then attach Na ion to esradiol turning it into salt which will make it water soluble while leaving test insoluble and seperate them that way.

if you have access to a lab you can also so evaporation and selctive recrystalisation

 

[serge]

but as far as diethyl ether, both estradiol and test prop soluble in diethyl ether. estradiol is more soluble then test. so there is no way to completely seperate them using diethyl ether

 

[Andy13]

but as far as diethyl ether, both estradiol and test prop soluble in diethyl ether. estradiol is more soluble then test. so there is no way to completely seperate them using diethyl ether

Removing the ester will yield testosterone and propionic acid. You do this by boiling in Naoh solution. However, testosterone will now have a free OH.. This will ionize..

Who's idea was it to hydrolize the ester? That ester is what makes it possible to remove (some of) the estrogen with NaOH.

And no, actually testosterone propionate is MORE soluble in ether than estradiol.

Andy

 

[Hill Billy]

Theres no way I would even consider injecting it without using a pH meter for the aqeous NaOH extraction and melting point determination apperatus for analysis(bare minimum). But preferably NMR and HPLC analysis, i.e. buy ready to shoot gear.
Too many variables for a home project IMO. I 'll take chemistry over recipes any day.

 

[serge]

Andy, do you have access to some lab equipment, like FT-IR? (im assuming you know what ft-ir is), well i have used a's kit and ran a scan of test suspension obtained from a manufacturer and ran a scan on test suspension obtained from synovex-h using a's kit. The two scans matched completely.

why dont you do your self a favor, get a's kit and synovex it will run you like $125 for 8g of test and do an experiment. As educated as you apeared before, you really seem closed minded on this one. Almost looks like you have a personal thing against A.

BTW, if you choose to run that experiment, let me know what you find

 

[Andy13]

Andy, do you have access to some lab equipment, like FT-IR? (im assuming you know what ft-ir is), well i have used a's kit and ran a scan of test suspension obtained from a manufacturer and ran a scan on test suspension obtained from synovex-h using a's kit. The two scans matched completely.

Show me the hard copies.

Have you looked at IR specs for different steroids? It's kind of hard to differentiate between them. You must have access to a GOOD IR. Steroids all look similar on IR's since their OH peaks are not distiguished b/c of no hydrogen bonding.

How about a GC?

 

[serge]

i only have access to ft-ir, but its a very high tech model, i did many scans to make sure, it came up to a perfect match. but as i said i tryed it, and it worked great, no problems with gyno and was very solid no roid gut or much bloating at all, the only water i gained was from eating all the fucking ice cream and burgers all day long

 

[notpuff]

can u shoot synovex converted eod and still get rersults

 

[yyzgeddylee]

HEADS UP BRO'S

I know this is a really old post....
but i thought you guys should know.....
stay away from the site recommended
above by Stew Meat, " www.sciencealliance.com " .....
the owner, Hobart Hughson,
got busted a while back for manufacturing Xtacy,and supplying chemicals to Xtacy labs in AZ and CA, operating and illegal enterprise, racketeering and money laundering.
He might be out of jail and still doing business from his site....
but you can bet the site is "watched" closely if you know
what i mean....ordering something from him could put yourself under scrutiny...

YYZ

 

[sk*]

-sk

 

[Spidey]

You can remove the estrogen from basicly any farm product. Grind the pellets and mixing them with diethyl ether. Let it set and the solution will seperate and the estrogens will flloat to the top. Remove the crystals on the surface, and you have a mixture below of test prop. Allow the ether to evaporate and you have powerdered test prop. You can get diethyl ether from www.sciencealliance.com .

Cockdezl: Make a 1% NaOH solution by adding drain cleaner that contains pure lye to distilled water. You can use "Red Devil Lye." Add the crushed pellets to this and let it set stirring occasionally. The estrogen will eventuall seperate as it is soluable in the NaOH solution while the test prop is not. Drain solution in a coffee filter and the powder that is left is pure test prop. Wash several times and drain through filter to be sure all NaOH has been removed.

Chances are that one of the following techniqes will work. Make sure you buy a kit to convert the powder into injectable form...

Any scientists on this board have any objections to this or have anything they would like to add?




-Stew

The idea of using NaOH won't work. At least, you won't get test prop. You'll get test suspension. The NaOH will remove the ester on the test prop as well as the benzoate of the estradiol benzoate. You are correct in stating that the resulting free estradiol would be soluble in NaOH solution.

-Spidey

 

[Spidey]

Removing the ester will yield testosterone and propionic acid. You do this by boiling in Naoh solution. However, testosterone will now have a free OH.. This will ionize..

The free OH on the testosterone is just the 17-OH. It is a secondary alcohol and will not ionize. The Pka of the average secondary alcohol is about 18. That is about 100 times harder to ionize than water. There is no way you are going to deprotonate a secondary alcohol with NaOH.

Who's idea was it to hydrolize the ester? That ester is what makes it possible to remove (some of) the estrogen with NaOH.

How is that? I assume you are trying to take advantage of the increased acidity of the phenolic OH on the 3 position of estradiol. Implicit in that assumption is the assumption that the benzoate is attached to the 17 position. Sorry, the benzoate ester on the estradiol is on the 3-position, not the 17 position. The phenolic OH is blocked. Estradiol benzoate is no more soluble (or reactive) in NaOH than is testosterone propionate. If you let the mixture agitate long enough, ester saponification would occur on both compounds, leaving you with a mixture of estradiol (as it's water soluble sodium salt) and testosterone (insoluble). The propionic acid would be in solution as its sodium salt as well. At that point you could filter off the testosterone and wash it to get testosterone powder (no ester).

-Spidey

 

[GENETIC_FREAK]

Nothing even close to new about this thread:
http://www.synokit.com/proof.html

 

[GENETIC_FREAK]

Syno conversion






For 10C kits do 5 carts at a time and repeat step #3 using vial #1b.


1. Dissolve 5 carts (400 pellets) in 12oz methanol in Glass jar or measuring cup. Preferably let sit overnight for complete breakdown of pellets.

2. After the pellets completely dissolve, your solution will be clear on top and cloudy with some sediment on the bottom. Filter out the binders by pouring your solution through two coffee filters. Once you have collected the solution, pour it into the pyrex dish.

3. Heat up 8oz of distilled water and combine the contents of vial #1 with it. Stir the mixture before continuing on to step # 4

4. Pour the mixture that you made in step #3 into the pyrex dish containing the methanol synovex solution. It will instantly turn milky white , don’t worry this is good! Let the solution react for a few minutes and occasionally stir. Now pour an additional 8oz of warm distilled water into the solution.

5. This next step is very important as you will have to completely evaporate the methanol out of the solution. Set the dish underneath a vent or a fan letting circulating air blow just above it. It usually takes 14 to 24 hours to accomplish this-just be patient. Stir every so often to break up the crust that forms.

6. Now you will place the coffee filters inside the funnel or fit the coffee filters around the mouth of a jar and secure with a rubber band, whichever is more convenient. Pour the contents of the pyrex dish onto the filters. Add some distilled water to get the residue off of the dish and add to filters.

7. Once you have a secure filtering station set up, pour 8oz of cool distilled water over your solution. Gently agitate the solution to ensure water is passing through entire contents. Rinse with distilled water 4 to 5 times. After the last rinse hold a ph strip underneath the draining water to check. It should turn a light green indicating that the estradiol has been washed away. If it turns dark blue continue rinsing.

8. Place the contents of the coffee filter into a clean dry pyrex dish and let evaporate overnight. The contents must be completely dry before continuing on to step #9, if you’re not sure scrape a little with a blade and it should flake. If it smudges it’s not dry yet.

 

[General Maximus]

http://www.geocities.com/wndwshr1/testinstruct.html

 

[Sigmund Roid]

bump for the scientists

 

[Andy13]

The free OH on the testosterone is just the 17-OH. It is a secondary alcohol and will not ionize

That's right.

I remember posting that and then finding this out way back when this thread started..

I should have entered a correction post... I thought this thread was long gone...

Aside, My latest (theoretical) thought on this is to form the bisulfate addition complex with testosterone in sat. aq. Na bisulfite. This will precipitate. The complex is washed with alcohol, then the ketone (testosterone) regenerated by stirring in NaOH solution.. I wonder to what extent the ester will hydrolyze since heating is not used..

Andy

 

[serge]

That's right.

I remember posting that and then finding this out way back when this thread started..

I should have entered a correction post... I thought this thread was long gone...

Aside, My latest (theoretical) thought on this is to form the bisulfate addition complex with testosterone in sat. aq. Na bisulfite. This will precipitate. The complex is washed with alcohol, then the ketone (testosterone) regenerated by stirring in NaOH solution.. I wonder to what extent the ester will hydrolyze since heating is not used..

Andy

Andy, recrystallization method of seperating those 2 is the way to go, assuming you got access to an organic chem lab. its a fucking breeze and melting point test will comfirm the purity of the final product

 

[Andy13]

Andy, recrystallization method of seperating those 2 is the way to go, assuming you got access to an organic chem lab. its a fucking breeze and melting point test will comfirm the purity of the final product

I remember reading something about this tech.. But I don't recall the details..

You would have to use a solvent or mixture of solvents that would dissolve one compound well and the other not. If the solubility of both compounds is in the same ballpark, it wouldn't be as simple as 're-crystalize and remove a large portion of the E2' since a portion of TP would also be removed and you would end up with the same over-all % E2, just less product..

Do you have details on this?

What are the melting points of these compounds? Even if they were radically different, it would be very difficult to assess any kind of purity in the final product since a little E2 may not alter MP that much, but will be enough to cause problems..

Andy

 

[serge]

I remember reading something about this tech.. But I don't recall the details..

You would have to use a solvent or mixture of solvents that would dissolve one compound well and the other not. If the solubility of both compounds is in the same ballpark, it wouldn't be as simple as 're-crystalize and remove a large portion of the E2' since a portion of TP would also be removed and you would end up with the same over-all % E2, just less product..

Do you have details on this?

What are the melting points of these compounds? Even if they were radically different, it would be very difficult to assess any kind of purity in the final product since a little E2 may not alter MP that much, but will be enough to cause problems..

Andy

i got the procedure on my pc, will post, as far as the melting point goes, any presence of estradiol creats a wide range for the melting point making it very easy to tell if the product is pure or not, once the product is pure MP range is only 0.5 degree C.

multiple crops are necessary to capture majority of TP, the first crop will yeild 50-70% of TP, a yeild of up to 90% is easily obtained with multiple crops

 

[Flash_75]

I had a different idea. ....and before you get your flame on, I'm only about 4 wks into my 1st org chem class, but here goes:

I think an aqueous HCL would be good. HCL would pull the OH off the estradiol, and replace them with Na. This gives you a water soluble estrogen ion and some more H20? the prop wont be H20 soluble, so you filter off the prop and throw out the estrogen.

I'm sure I'm overlooking or not knowledgable enough, but thats my thought.

You also migght be able to put your entire synovex into an oil soloution w/ some BA or BB then add to a seperatry funnel and add x%HCL(aq)soloution. agitate and let seperate. If I'm right in assuming that the hcl will take off the OH then this should work relatively well.

who knows.....

 

[Andy13]

I had a different idea. ....and before you get your flame on, I'm only about 4 wks into my 1st org chem class, but here goes:

I think an aqueous HCL would be good. HCL would pull the OH off the estradiol, and replace them with Na. This gives you a water soluble estrogen ion and some more H20? the prop wont be H20 soluble, so you filter off the prop and throw out the estrogen.

I'm sure I'm overlooking or not knowledgable enough, but thats my thought.

You also migght be able to put your entire synovex into an oil soloution w/ some BA or BB then add to a seperatry funnel and add x%HCL(aq)soloution. agitate and let seperate. If I'm right in assuming that the hcl will take off the OH then this should work relatively well.

who knows.....

You mean NaOH, not HCl....

Yes, this was one method..

The other was a transesterification (alcoholysis) with methanol and probably some H2SO4.. Both esters are lost here.

 

[Spidey]

I had a different idea. ....and before you get your flame on, I'm only about 4 wks into my 1st org chem class, but here goes:

I think an aqueous HCL would be good. HCL would pull the OH off the estradiol, and replace them with Na. This gives you a water soluble estrogen ion and some more H20? the prop wont be H20 soluble, so you filter off the prop and throw out the estrogen.

I'm sure I'm overlooking or not knowledgable enough, but thats my thought.

You also migght be able to put your entire synovex into an oil soloution w/ some BA or BB then add to a seperatry funnel and add x%HCL(aq)soloution. agitate and let seperate. If I'm right in assuming that the hcl will take off the OH then this should work relatively well.

who knows.....

Sorry friend. It won't work. Andy was right, you mean NaOH but even with that change it won't work easily. The OH on the estradiol that you are speaking of is blocked by a benzoate ester. While it is possible to hydrolize that ester with NaOH, the conditions would need to be a bit more stringent to have it happen quickly enough to be practical.

Here is a procedure that would work:

First extract out the test prop and estradiol benzoate by "dissolving" the pellets in methanol and filtering through a coffee filter to get rid of the binders. After evaporation of the methanol, take the resulting white powder and suspend it in 5% NaOH (can make from Red Devil Lye as outlined above in a previoous reply). Heat the mixture to boiling in a sauce pan and allow it to boil for an hour or two. Be sure to keep replenishing the water level so as not to let it boil dry.

At this point, you now have a mixture of testosterone (no ester), estradiol sodium salt, propionic acid sodium salt, and benzoic acid sodium salt. Only the testosterone is insoluble. Everything else is completely dissolved and water soluble. Filter the mixture through another coffee filter and wash with water until a pH test trip on the run-off tests pH=6 to 7 (tap water is usually slightly acidic, pH~6). VWALLA. You have test suspension free of any estradiol.

-Spidey

 

[davidpro]

what everyone thing about this last method?

please post your comments, as this method seems smart

 

[davidpro]

what does everyone think about this last method?

please post your comments, as this method seems smart

 

[davidpro]

what does everyone think about this last method?

please post your comments.

 

[JuicePimp]

Here is a procedure that would work:

First extract out the test prop and estradiol benzoate by "dissolving" the pellets in methanol and filtering through a coffee filter to get rid of the binders. After evaporation of the methanol, take the resulting white powder and suspend it in 5% NaOH (can make from Red Devil Lye as outlined above in a previoous reply). Heat the mixture to boiling in a sauce pan and allow it to boil for an hour or two. Be sure to keep replenishing the water level so as not to let it boil dry.

At this point, you now have a mixture of testosterone (no ester), estradiol sodium salt, propionic acid sodium salt, and benzoic acid sodium salt. Only the testosterone is insoluble. Everything else is completely dissolved and water soluble. Filter the mixture through another coffee filter and wash with water until a pH test trip on the run-off tests pH=6 to 7 (tap water is usually slightly acidic, pH~6). VWALLA. You have test suspension free of any estradiol.

-Spidey

Since this tread is so old, does anyone have any updates or experiences using this method? What results? Thanks.

 

[Dial_tone]

http://www.basskilleronline.com/

 

[JuicePimp]

http://www.basskilleronline.com/

I agree it is a great site for fina, but his link for Test prop from the synovex conversion doesnt even work anymore. I was just wondering if anyone had tried the methods discussed here.

 

[majutsu]

this is old news . . . D***d kit works well. But the lab results showed 0.2% estrogen which at say 100mg ed is .2mg of estro a day, and this is concerning. I can do 2g /wk sust with no problems, but with a kit you get 4 mg estro a week with that, and therefore require antie's at least with your pharmacologic dose of estrogen. Even then . . . The kit works well, and those are the numbers, but this just doesn't seem worth it to me. With aromitization and exogenous estrogen, you are clearly magnifying your risk of gyno tremendously.