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St. Steven
- Thread starter Mr. dB
- Start date
javaguru
Banned
Well, from what I've heard from early reviews of his approved biography he is the epitome of the narcissistic control freak CEO; Which is probably the same reason many of the politicians and CEO's involved in the 2008 economic collapse were also wildly successful. Under Jobs, Apple had a higher profit margin than evil oil and outsourced jobs to China like you would expect from that monocle guy in monopoly. Apple never got a direct taxpayer bailout but were bailed out by the government when they forced Microsoft to save the company or face extinction as part of their anti-trust settlement over internet explorer being bundled with their operating system.
On a side note, Microsoft had spent $0.00 dollars on lobbying until they were persecuted by the feds, since then they have diverted hundreds of millions from hiring and R&D to lobbying to avoid being persecuted by the government a second time.
mrplunkey
New member
So? He got stuff done and created a ton of value.
Still, in many ways, not admirable as a human being.
b0und
New member
16 Examples Of Steve Jobs Being An Unbelievable Jerk
b0und (thou shall not speak ill of the dead, ah fuck it
)
b0und (thou shall not speak ill of the dead, ah fuck it
)16 Examples Of Steve Jobs Being An Unbelievable Jerk
b0und (thou shall not speak ill of the dead, ah fuck it
Very few of those examples qualify Jobs as a jerk.
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lartinos
Guest
The Steve jobs haters are pathetic.
So what if he had to be a dick to be productive,
Sounds like any other productive business man.
So what if he had to be a dick to be productive,
Sounds like any other productive business man.
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lartinos
Guest
Where would his staff be without him?
Would there have been an iPod, iPad, iPhone etc...
The guy was a visionary. Face it..
mrplunkey
New member
You mean like George Washington, Thomas Edison, George Patton, Henry Ford, Andy Grove, Abraham Lincoln, Jack Welch, Jonas Salk, Ben Franklin, Francis Crick and virtually every other outstanding achiever has done?
javaguru
Banned
Well, my point is that he is hardly a role model in comparison to other CEO's...There are may others that have done a lot for society outside of producing a product people want to purchase. Hell, Goldman Sachs produced products people stood in line to buy all over the world. His attack on Bill Gates for not being an innovator was lacking in class. Likewise, his grudge against Research in Motion for what he claimed was stolen technology shows how petty he was as a businessman. I understand being pissed off when someone steals from you, it happened to me when I first went into business on my own but I did business with the company again because it was lucrative and I knew that I had to protect myself. In business you do the math and sometimes you can't justify pursuing a course of action, like litigation or retaliation, even if it seems like "justice."
It seems strange for someone that studied Buddhism and aspired to be a monk at one point; Especially when the stated reason for the approved biography was so that his children would know who he was....Kinda ironic statement for an adopted child to make...
javaguru
Banned
Working for another tech company....
I've worked in IT since the late 1990's and have never owned an Apple product. PC's are still roughly 90% of the computer market, Napster figured out the digital music market which lead Apple to step in ,license the music and produce the ipod...The Kindle was out long before the ipad...
I admit, the Apple fanboys are strong in their loyalty..... Microsoft and Apple are just better at marketing than their competitors.
Seems hypocritical considering that his big breakthrough, the Lisa/Mac GUI, was stolen from Xerox PARC.
mrplunkey
New member
If you look behind big breakthroughs, there are often smaller developments that lead-up to the big bang.
Breakthroughs that materialize out of thin air are incredibly rare, even by breakthrough standards.
mrplunkey
New member
I dunno... maybe an alternative, end-user friendly operating system in the face of a monopolistic supplier that was expected to take over the planet?
PICK3
New member
mrplunkey
New member
Most definitely.
Chickas won't even let you get the rest of the word out. They hear "pole" in the middle of the word and it's on!
Monopolistic? Apple made the hardware, the operating system, the accessories, and bundled most of the software, in a one-source turnkey system. That's far more monopolistic than Microsoft, who never offered whole systems.
I've never found MacOS to be all that user-friendly, compared to any version of Windows from W95 on. EXCEPT that Mac plug 'n play support for peripherals is miles better.
mrplunkey
New member
Most people forget that not that many years ago, the scare was windows would take over the world. The concern was their browser, office suite and operating system being so tightly integrated that no one else could survive.
Jobs took them on during their apex. What he did doesn't look like a huge deal in retrospect, but at that time it seemed nearly impossible.
Uhhh, no way windows 7 is even close to as user friendly as lion or even snow leopard. I use both daily and it is not even close.
Yeah, they're up to 10% of the US market share, 5% or less worldwide, that's really "taking them on"...
mrplunkey
New member
It most definitely is. Microsoft almost pulled off a worldwide takeover of desktop operating systems.
javaguru
Banned
I concur, Apple is the definition of a monopoly....The fact MS bundled their browser as the default with their operating system made them a monopoly? Apple controls the hardware through the operating system and how all software is developed. I guess they aren't a monopoly because the market rejected them as anything other than a fashion statement? Microsoft was only targeted because they didn't have lobbyists and their competitors did...
Samsung just replaced Apple as the largest producer of smart phones...maybe there needs to be an anti-trust lawsuit filed because every smart phone needs to be at least $600.00 and "super cool."
...and have batteries that require major surgery to replace.
mrplunkey
New member
You are confounding monopoly with a closed architecture.
Apple is most definitely a closed architecture, but it's far from a monopoly. Having the "coolest" or most popular of something doesn't constitute a monopoly.
Where Microsoft almost pulled-off the monopoly move was when they were leveraging their presence in operating systems to wipe-out would-be applications providers. They successfully made the move with Microsoft Office and were well on their way with Internet Explorer. How quickly people have forgotten: "DOS isn't done till Lotus won't run."...
PICK3
New member
The batteries are easy to replace, and iPhones are the same price as every other smartphone.
Wow. It has been along time since I've heard that mantra.
Wordperfect and Paperclip Pro for the win! Those were some great word processors.
javaguru
Banned
Apple has tried to be monopolistic...vertical integration is considered monopolistic under anti-trust law, they just never managed to get enough of a market share for the feds to put their boot on Apple's neck. Personally, I don't think anti-trust laws are necessary...monopolies aren't created by free markets but by collusion between government and big business. Even at the height of the Microsoft supremacy there were compatible open source solutions to Office and the operating system. A monopoly means you have no choice and there were plenty of choices but Microsoft simply produced mediocre software that was well marketed and easily understood by the casual user, IT is the last bastion of the free market in America. I still use command line UNIX professionally, the operating system used for Apples OS X, and it was created in 1969.
mrplunkey
New member
1) Vertical integration is perfectly legal.
2) Anti-trust laws are needed. The threat of price fixing is quite real. It's hard enough to keep companies from doing it even with the harsh laws that exist today.
3) Microsoft's move was to give its own applications developers unequal access to their OS APIs. It would have been a brilliant move, but they were stopped.
Warp's problems were (1) squatty fonts, and (B) fans who were even more annoying than Mac fanboys.
javaguru
Banned
1. Not when you have a major market share...You can't vertically integrate without triggering anti-trust laws if you are successful at marketing.
2. Anti-trust laws are only needed when you have government intervention in markets, list every monopoly that has been broken up by the feds and I'll show you government collusion and corruption that produced the monopoly. Barry made another mistake by claiming the feds created the "trans continental railroad" which was actually the intercontinental railroad as a reason why big government projects are needed, the transcontinental railroad was one of the most corrupt enterprises in the history of the United States....The United States taxpayers were raped to produce the government subsidized and supported robber barons Barry seems to think exist in middle America....any business owner that has managed to work their ass off to achieve 250k per year in income.
3. I was never restricted by Microsoft in my app development. Microsoft made it very easy for anyone to develop windows based software, that's free market. As a matter of fact, I haven't paid a dime for their development tools in almost a decade. However, If I wanted to develop an iphone app I would have to pay Apple for the honor of writing an app that may improve the quality of their product while increasing their bottom line without it improving my bottom line.
mrplunkey
New member
1) Completely untrue. Cite a single case where a company was denied the ability to vertically integrate solely on their basis of market share.
2) Anti-trust laws are routinely used to stop price fixing and artificial market segmentation. A price fixing ring in the medical device foam market was recently broken-up because the few competitors involved realized they could coordinate pricing and greatly increase profits. I'd be glad to get the company names if you'd like.
3) Your access to development tools is irrelevant. You're a lawyer. You should know that.
you jealous?
javaguru
Banned
1. Microsoft....
2. Medical services are one of the two examples of how the government fucks the market. Look at the cost of higher education and medical care over the last decade.
3. I'm not a lawyer...and guess what...if the government wasn't forcing me to pay for medical devices for 80 year olds the free market would correct it....You're really old and it's time to die with dignity...
For the record, I became a Microsoft Certified Professional in 1998....I then went on to do Y2K work for fortune 500's until 2001 when I was hired by a small software consulting company....I'm self taught rob...I'm a walking example of why higher education is bullshit....High achievers will always achieve highly....
mrplunkey
New member
1) Microsoft's issue wasn't vertical integration. It was their 90%+ market share. If they were a 25% player, they could have gone from sand to boxed computers and everything in between.
2) That has nothing to do with the price-fixing ring for medical foam.
3) For some reason I thought you went to law school at one point.
P.S. "High achiever" is all relative. Be careful with that.
Jobs ruined the music retail business. Downloads are worse than physical media, and iTunes helped destroy the big music chains and the local mom 'n pop record store. And an iPod with the little white earbuds is a horrible way to listen to music, compared to non-compressed physical media playing through good loudspeakers.
The iPhone made annoying cellphones even more prolific, this is not an advance for civilization.
The iPhone made annoying cellphones even more prolific, this is not an advance for civilization.
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lartinos
Guest
You do not own any?
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lartinos
Guest
lol
mrplunkey
New member
There's a valid argument that e-music in general downgraded the quality of audio recording and playback.
But keep this in mind:
E-music is also crushing the entire music distribution paradigm. I'm the last thing in the world to a good music consumer (I listen to Raw Dog and Blue Collar Radio), but I recognize the value of any distribution model that puts producers closer to consumers.
And also remember that over time, you'll see higher and higher music encoding formats. My guess is that playback quality will continue to improve as well. To me, noise cancelling features are already more important than pristine acoustics anyway since I'm rarely in a situation where I'm in a perfectly quiet environment anyway.
P.S. You should love iPhones. The last thing people do on them is actually talk. I'm far more concerned about a 295 lb minivan-driving cow with a flip phone glued to her ear 24/7. That's the woman that will eventually kill us all.
No. No cellphone, no iPod, no downloaded music.
At home, when I listen to music, it's either an LP record or a CD playing through a stereo system through a pair of actual loudspeakers.
I'm not so important that I need to stay connected when I'm away from the land line.
javaguru
Banned
Microsoft still has a 90% market share in operating systems for PC's....nothing has changed except taxpayers and Microsoft were forced to spend millions litigating a non-issue. However, after the ordeal Microsoft has diverted tens of millions to lobbying and campaigns and I have to download the latest version of internet explorer even though I would like it installed automatically because it's just easier, I need to test software on every browser....
It has everything to do with government involvement in providing funds and regulating....Do you think it is a coincidence medical and higher education costs have increased at two and four times the rate of inflation, respectively?
I have a J.D. but I have never practiced law...That means I've never been an attorney.
Of course "high achiever" is relative; If you look at Herman Cain and Donald Trump objectively on net worth..."The Donald" wins on net worth but if you make an objective/subjective assessment based on starting points...Herman bends Donald over like a third rate whore; That's assuming you use net worth as your metric. There are numerous other potential metrics to use other than financial success for high achievement. There are probably dozens of Apple and Microsoft developers that exceeded their CEO's talent in every way when it came to technology, that's how entrepreneurs become rich..hiring high achievers...
mrplunkey
New member
Microsoft continues to have high share, but the only real monopoly they have is the de facto tying arrangement between the OS and the Office Suite. It's a big one, but at least it didn't spread.
Separate issue.
Did you take the bar?
I'd still be careful with that "high achiever" moniker.
javaguru
Banned
Plunkey, show me an ambitious and talented person that has lived in poverty for most of their life, other than an artist; It doesn't normally happen.
I never took the bar, I got my Microsoft certifications during my post law school studying for the bar time and have been working in IT since 1998....a programmer since 2000...
I never took the bar, I got my Microsoft certifications during my post law school studying for the bar time and have been working in IT since 1998....a programmer since 2000...
mrplunkey
New member
1) Ambitious and talented are relative.
2) And the poverty line is the measuring stick? Seems like you're setting the bar a tad low.
mrplunkey
New member
And btw Mr. "JavaGuru", is JAMA the best open/free set of libraries for basic matrix operations? All I need are fundamentals and a few decompositions (SVD and eigenvalues, mostly).
And also... I might need complex matrices. JAMA only works with real ones. Do you know of a complex version?
And also... I might need complex matrices. JAMA only works with real ones. Do you know of a complex version?
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