Spiking insulin levels

[jrlex]

How does this happend? Is it when you stay away from sugar for while then all of a sudden eat something that is really concentrated in sugar like a peice of chocolate...Is this how this happend's???? How does this affect the body during a cycle.....Does it keep you from losing fat??? What does this do???????????

 

[mrplunkey]

Insulin is a very anabolic hormone. It basically triggers storage.

Sooo... let's chose something BAD as an example. Go eat a 32 oz fatty steak, then knock-out a baked potato with tons of butter and sour cream. Chase it with some white bread too. The potato and bread will break down very fast into sugar, triggering an insulin response. Then you'll store the protein... but you'll also store a lot of fat. This recipie will turn you into a plumper in no time.

In general, spiking your insulin in the presence of a meal is a bad, bad thing.

EXCEPTION: Post-workout, your body is very catabolic. You want to get back into a nitrogen-positive anabolic state post-haste. How best to do it? Down 80 g's of whey (or any fast) protein along with 80 g's of simple sugar. The sugar will spike your insulin, trigger the storage of the protein, and you'll be off to the races. A "post recovery" drink is pretty much a little protein and a lot of sugar.

 

[azul]

Insulin is a very anabolic hormone. It basically triggers storage.

Sooo... let's chose something BAD as an example. Go eat a 32 oz fatty steak, then knock-out a baked potato with tons of butter and sour cream. Chase it with some white bread too. The potato and bread will break down very fast into sugar, triggering an insulin response. Then you'll store the protein... but you'll also store a lot of fat. This recipie will turn you into a plumper in no time.

In general, spiking your insulin in the presence of a meal is a bad, bad thing.

EXCEPTION: Post-workout, your body is very catabolic. You want to get back into a nitrogen-positive anabolic state post-haste. How best to do it? Down 80 g's of whey (or any fast) protein along with 80 g's of simple sugar. The sugar will spike your insulin, trigger the storage of the protein, and you'll be off to the races. A "post recovery" drink is pretty much a little protein and a lot of sugar.

I'd have to disagree. Unless you're using insulin injections, insulin spikes don't last long enough for the body to absorb 80g of whey protein. Some experts researching PWO nutrition recommend about .4g of protein per kg of bodyweight. Any more might slow down digestion, and you don't really want that.

 

[Neo22]

I'd have to disagree. Unless you're using insulin injections, insulin spikes don't last long enough for the body to absorb 80g of whey protein. Some experts researching PWO nutrition recommend about .4g of protein per kg of bodyweight. Any more might slow down digestion, and you don't really want that.

You're going to need some articles to back up your argument.

 

[mrplunkey]

I'd have to disagree. Unless you're using insulin injections, insulin spikes don't last long enough for the body to absorb 80g of whey protein. Some experts researching PWO nutrition recommend about .4g of protein per kg of bodyweight. Any more might slow down digestion, and you don't really want that.

I always loaded-up on the protein under the assumption that 1) the AF Iso-ab whey is trivial to digest and 2) sugar gets priority over protein anyway in the stomach.

Either of those assumptions might be wrong though.

 

[jrlex]

I'd have to disagree. Unless you're using insulin injections, insulin spikes don't last long enough for the body to absorb 80g of whey protein. Some experts researching PWO nutrition recommend about .4g of protein per kg of bodyweight. Any more might slow down digestion, and you don't really want that.

But what is the worst thing sugar does to the body when on a cycle. When on a cycle you stay away form cheating on your diet and that goes for any alcohol and sugar as well.... So does eating a peice of chocolate or a peice of candy really spike your insulin levels to the point where your not burning fat...I hope this makes sence.....

 

[azul]

But what is the worst thing sugar does to the body when on a cycle. When on a cycle you stay away form cheating on your diet and that goes for any alcohol and sugar as well.... So does eating a peice of chocolate or a peice of candy really spike your insulin levels to the point where your not burning fat...I hope this makes sence.....

You don't have to worry about insulin spikes unless you're eating tons of simple carbs. A piece of chocolate or candy won't spike your insulin significantly, though insulin sensitivity plays a role as well.

Dr John Berardi:
"You may be asking yourself why too much protein could be counterproductive. Well, a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower. And if this weren't bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!"

Article found at: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_142post

Anything else?

 

[jrlex]

You don't have to worry about insulin spikes unless you're eating tons of simple carbs. A piece of chocolate or candy won't spike your insulin significantly, though insulin sensitivity plays a role as well.

Dr John Berardi:
"You may be asking yourself why too much protein could be counterproductive. Well, a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower. And if this weren't bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!"

Article found at: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_142post

Anything else?

So if you stay straight with your diet and let's say do minimum of 45min of cardio a day while on a cycle then you should burn fat right.. I trying to be as lean as possible

 

[mrplunkey]

You don't have to worry about insulin spikes unless you're eating tons of simple carbs. A piece of chocolate or candy won't spike your insulin significantly, though insulin sensitivity plays a role as well.

Dr John Berardi:
"You may be asking yourself why too much protein could be counterproductive. Well, a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower. And if this weren't bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!"

Article found at: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_142post

Anything else?

Shit... that's more evidence that I just need to buckle-up and shoot slin post workout. I know I need to do it...

 

[mrplunkey]

But what is the worst thing sugar does to the body when on a cycle. When on a cycle you stay away form cheating on your diet and that goes for any alcohol and sugar as well.... So does eating a peice of chocolate or a peice of candy really spike your insulin levels to the point where your not burning fat...I hope this makes sence.....

It takes a pretty big hit to generate an insulin spike, but the sources of these "big hits" are hiding everywhere. It's not just dessert or a piece of candy. It's the loaf of white bread you down with the meal. It's that massive baked potato. It's that huge plate of white noodles that your dish came with. It's that mountain of rice piled-up against your entree. In general, any carb that can give you a fairly quick "buzz", when eaten in quantity, can generate an insulin spike.

 

[JKurz1]

u guys take r-ala?

 

[azul]

So if you stay straight with your diet and let's say do minimum of 45min of cardio a day while on a cycle then you should burn fat right.. I trying to be as lean as possible

Remember, in the end it all comes down to diet. If you're gaining large amounts of fat, lower your calories (preferably carbs or fat).

On a cycle, I wouldn't do more than 30 minutes of cardio 3 times a week. You want to gain as much muscle as possible.

 

[Makavelli]

You don't have to worry about insulin spikes unless you're eating tons of simple carbs. A piece of chocolate or candy won't spike your insulin significantly, though insulin sensitivity plays a role as well.

Dr John Berardi:
"You may be asking yourself why too much protein could be counterproductive. Well, a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower. And if this weren't bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!"

Article found at: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_142post

Anything else?

Proetin will be utilized by converting to glucose in the ABSENCE of sufficient carbs and fats. This is not the case post workout when one consumes copious amount of carbs along with their protein. You don't have to worry about it. Post workout I usually use 50 g of whey along with 80 g of dextrose.

 

[azul]

Proetin will be utilized by converting to glucose in the ABSENCE of sufficient carbs and fats. This is not the case post workout when one consumes copious amount of carbs along with their protein. You don't have to worry about it. Post workout I usually use 50 g of whey along with 80 g of dextrose.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say...

Basically, large amounts of protein (relative to bodyweight) can slow down digestion, which weakens the insulin response you're trying to achieve. If you're around 240 lbs, 50g of whey is fine, but if you're 140 lbs and consuming 50g of whey PWO, it might be detrimental, not to the degree that you will lose muscle, but it will slow down digestion too much.

 

[jrlex]

Remember, in the end it all comes down to diet. If you're gaining large amounts of fat, lower your calories (preferably carbs or fat).

On a cycle, I wouldn't do more than 30 minutes of cardio 3 times a week. You want to gain as much muscle as possible.

Then I'm doing way to much cardio...I'm doing it five times a week...here are my stat's 5'9 205lbs. 400mg of deca/400 mgs of EQ every week. I want to be as lean as possible. And I'm thinking that the only way I'm going to do that is if I go down on my weight to about 195lbs.

 

[Makavelli]

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say...

Basically, large amounts of protein (relative to bodyweight) can slow down digestion, which weakens the insulin response you're trying to achieve. If you're around 240 lbs, 50g of whey is fine, but if you're 140 lbs and consuming 50g of whey PWO, it might be detrimental, not to the degree that you will lose muscle, but it will slow down digestion too much.

Dextrose enters your bloodstream w/in 3 minutes of ingestion. Whey enters the blood stream w/in 20 minutes. How is that going to slow anything down? 50 g is what I need. Others that don't the same amount of muscle as me obviously need less or more. That's not the point. My point is that you don't need to worry about protein being converted to glucose if you eat enough carbs post workout. That's not how the body works. Now if you eat straight whey w/o eating any carbs or fat, then absolutely, your body will convert the protein to glucose. This is the reason that many people trying to do a CKD never get into ketosis. They eat too much protein which keeps their body out of ketosis.

 

[azul]

Dr John Berardi:
"You may be asking yourself why too much protein could be counterproductive. Well, a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower. And if this weren't bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!"

Article found at: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_142post

Anything else?

I shall simply quote him again. Too much protein=weaker insulin response.

Protein isn't digested as quickly as dextrose. It actually takes whey about 30 minutes to enter the bloodstream, and even though dextrose might take a few minutes, keep in mind that the whey slows it down. This leads to a weaker, and slower insulin response.

50g is what you need? Who told you that? Did you perform a scientific study that showed that you need exactly 50g?

 

[Makavelli]

I shall simply quote him again. Too much protein=weaker insulin response.

Protein isn't digested as quickly as dextrose. It actually takes whey about 30 minutes to enter the bloodstream, and even though dextrose might take a few minutes, keep in mind that the whey slows it down. This leads to a weaker, and slower insulin response.

50g is what you need? Who told you that? Did you perform a scientific study that showed that you need exactly 50g?

Sorry bro, I'm trying to help out people that want it. I'm not going to argue about how I came up with 50 g of whey. Believe what you want. It's not going to affect my gains, nor the gains of my clients. Good luck eating your low protein diet...

 

[azul]

Sorry bro, I'm trying to help out people that want it. I'm not going to argue about how I came up with 50 g of whey. Believe what you want. It's not going to affect my gains, nor the gains of my clients. Good luck eating your low protein diet...

You're calling my 400g protein per day diet low protein? Noooo, I'd puke if I had to eat any more.

I realize that everybody has different methods, but quite frankly, I like science very much

 

[jrlex]

Sorry bro, I'm trying to help out people that want it. I'm not going to argue about how I came up with 50 g of whey. Believe what you want. It's not going to affect my gains, nor the gains of my clients. Good luck eating your low protein diet...

Okay I see this is a good topic!! Let keep like that and not turn this into a flame war....Mak and AZ thanks for chirping in on the conversation, but before i let this post die out I want to know...Would taking in let's say 80 grams of protein after a workout(before going to sleep becasuse I workout at night) be ideal??? Since I workout at night would a protein shake at night let's say about an hour before I go to sleep, turn to glucose?????

Would this be bad????

 

[Makavelli]

Okay I see this is a good topic!! Let keep like that and not turn this into a flame war....Mak and AZ thanks for chirping in on the conversation, but before i let this post die out I want to know...Would taking in let's say 80 grams of protein after a workout(before going to sleep becasuse I workout at night) be ideal??? Since I workout at night would a protein shake at night let's say about an hour before I go to sleep, turn to glucose?????

Would this be bad????

It depends on what else you eat with it. Also are you talking 80 g of whey or a mix. I would have your post workout shake with pure whey, then eat a whole food meal 1 hour later consisting of protein and fat.

 

[jrlex]

It depends on what else you eat with it. Also are you talking 80 g of whey or a mix. I would have your post workout shake with pure whey, then eat a whole food meal 1 hour later consisting of protein and fat.

Nothing else with it just water...1 hour before going to sleep...this is after I've came back from the gym...I wouldn't be able to eat a meal after this since it's around midnight...

 

[Makavelli]

Nothing else with it just water...1 hour before going to sleep...this is after I've came back from the gym...I wouldn't be able to eat a meal after this since it's around midnight...

You need to eat a meal with this after training. I'd suggest taking whey protein with dextrose immediately after training and then eating a meal right before going to bed. Eating the way you are you'll definitely be converting the protein to glucose.

 

[jrlex]

You need to eat a meal with this after training. I'd suggest taking whey protein with dextrose immediately after training and then eating a meal right before going to bed. Eating the way you are you'll definitely be converting the protein to glucose.

But isn't eating that late bad???? I try not to eat carbs past 6:30pm...Well except for the carbs that whey protein has. which is like 10 or 15... So can this be the reason why my weight isn't dropping...I've been pretty stric with my diet and I've lost 2lbs....Wtf I know you're thinking why would you want to lose weight, right?? Well I think I could look more cut up and vascular if I drop down to 195lbs...That's where want to be..

 

[jrlex]

You need to eat a meal with this after training. I'd suggest taking whey protein with dextrose immediately after training and then eating a meal right before going to bed. Eating the way you are you'll definitely be converting the protein to glucose.

But isn't eating that late bad???? I try not to eat carbs past 6:30pm...Well except for the carbs that whey protein has. which is like 10 or 15... So can this be the reason why my weight isn't dropping...I've been pretty strict with my diet and I've only lost 2lbs in the last three weeks....Wtf?????

I know you're thinking why would you want to lose weight, right?? Well I think I could look more cut up and vascular if I drop down to 195lbs...

That's where want to be..

 

[Makavelli]

But isn't eating that late bad???? I try not to eat carbs past 6:30pm...Well except for the carbs that whey protein has. which is like 10 or 15... So can this be the reason why my weight isn't dropping...I've been pretty stric with my diet and I've lost 2lbs....Wtf I know you're thinking why would you want to lose weight, right?? Well I think I could look more cut up and vascular if I drop down to 195lbs...That's where want to be..

OK bro, it's all about dropping BF, not weight. With that said you need carbs and protein after training no matter what time it is. You'll be fine eating carbs at that time. Taper your carbs up as the day goes on. You should structure your carbs around your workout.

 

[jrlex]

OK bro, it's all about dropping BF, not weight. With that said you need carbs and protein after training no matter what time it is. You'll be fine eating carbs at that time. Taper your carbs up as the day goes on. You should structure your carbs around your workout.

No your right it's bodyfat not weight that I'm trying to drop...can you name of few carbs to eat that late???

 

[Silent Method]

Consuming carbohydrate triggers insulin release. Insulin essentially shoves nutrient into cells. Different foods have different glycemic index (GI) measures. The glycemic index is a measure of how fast a particular food causes blood glucose to rise. The faster the rise, the more of a "spike," or acute elevation in insulin.

Highly processed and starchy foods cause the most rapid insulin spikes (high GI) - foods such as whole oats, cracked wheat, most vegetables, legumes will have a lower GI.

Spikes are typically bad. Essentially, if there is too much insulin released too quickly, more nutrients will be moved into the cell than necessary for energy or protein synthesis needs. Thus these nutrients are morel likely to be stored as fat.

Consuming high glycemic carbohydrate, such as the aforementioned baked potato and white bread chaser, with fats such as the fatty steak, butter, and sour cream, will actually effectively lower the insulin spike that would be seen with the carbohydrate alone. (The higher the fat and protein content of a meal, the slower the digestion and release of the carbohydrate). I wouldn't recommend such a meal as optimal, but contrary to popular belief, high GI carbs consumed with fat does not necessarily equal worst-case fat storage.

Insulin spikes as correlated with the glycemic index don't necessarily say all we need to know regarding the particular carbohydrate foods effect on insulin. Whereas glycemic index is a measure of how fast a food raises blood glucose, glycemic load is a measure of how much blood glucose is actually elevated. A great example is watermelon. It has a high GI but low GL. It raises blood glucose very rapidly, but not very high.

General advice: Try to eat low GI carbs as a rule, with protein and healthy fats at each meal. Eat high GI carbs with protein post workout. A good ration post exercise is 4:1 carbohydrate to protein. 80 grams is way too much protein. 50 grams is at the high end, and even then one would only assimilate that dose if the protein source were at least partially a pure hydrolyzed protein. 30 grams of a good form of whey and 4 times as much high GI carb is a good way to go.

If you eat a piece of chocolate every now and then it won't kill you. Don't go overboard, and depending on the state of your body and your goals, don't do it too frequently.



I stopped reading at post 7. let me know if I missed anything.

 

[jrlex]

Consuming carbohydrate triggers insulin release. Insulin essentially shoves nutrient into cells. Different foods have different glycemic index (GI) measures. The glycemic index is a measure of how fast a particular food causes blood glucose to rise. The faster the rise, the more of a "spike," or acute elevation in insulin.

Highly processed and starchy foods cause the most rapid insulin spikes (high GI) - foods such as whole oats, cracked wheat, most vegetables, legumes will have a lower GI.

Spikes are typically bad. Essentially, if there is too much insulin released too quickly, more nutrients will be moved into the cell than necessary for energy or protein synthesis needs. Thus these nutrients are morel likely to be stored as fat.

Consuming high glycemic carbohydrate, such as the aforementioned baked potato and white bread chaser, with fats such as the fatty steak, butter, and sour cream, will actually effectively lower the insulin spike that would be seen with the carbohydrate alone. (The higher the fat and protein content of a meal, the slower the digestion and release of the carbohydrate). I wouldn't recommend such a meal as optimal, but contrary to popular belief, high GI carbs consumed with fat does not necessarily equal worst-case fat storage.

Insulin spikes as correlated with the glycemic index don't necessarily say all we need to know regarding the particular carbohydrate foods effect on insulin. Whereas glycemic index is a measure of how fast a food raises blood glucose, glycemic load is a measure of how much blood glucose is actually elevated. A great example is watermelon. It has a high GI but low GL. It raises blood glucose very rapidly, but not very high.

General advice: Try to eat low GI carbs as a rule, with protein and healthy fats at each meal. Eat high GI carbs with protein post workout. A good ration post exercise is 4:1 carbohydrate to protein. 80 grams is way too much protein. 50 grams is at the high end, and even then one would only assimilate that dose if the protein source were at least partially a pure hydrolyzed protein. 30 grams of a good form of whey and 4 times as much high GI carb is a good way to go.

If you eat a piece of chocolate every now and then it won't kill you. Don't go overboard, and depending on the state of your body and your goals, don't do it too frequently.



I stopped reading at post 7. let me know if I missed anything.

Phew.....foken long read....Okay sounds good...I'll cut the protein down after a work to about 50 grams of protein. But I'm still skeptical about eating carbs that late at night...

 

[Makavelli]

Phew.....foken long read....Okay sounds good...I'll cut the protein down after a work to about 50 grams of protein. But I'm still skeptical about eating carbs that late at night...

After training your muscle cells are highly sensitive to the effects of insulin. You won't store carbs as fat. You'll store them as glycogen if done correctly.