Slavery 2014 ?? Master Obama

[SpyWizard]

If a person is provided free

medical
dental
food
housing
education
phone/communication
transportation / bus

what more do they really need... and if they don't have to work for it why wouldn't they take advantage of that??


A slave on a plantation did not receive many of the technologies/experiences we have today but were in much the same situation..

I mean can you imagine the horror of it all?? you are in your home sleeping with your family, and your neighbors from 6 miles away come into your town and kill all that resist and capture the men/women and children and sell them to these crazy looking white men, who put you on a boat where 1/2 of your family die (lack of space/food) then 30 days later you are taken off the ship paraded before a bunch more crazy white crackers and then you find yourself pickin cotton eating hog guts (chitterlings) for supper..

Now, in today's situation, you are born into a family where you may or may not have a baby daddy, but your momma is crazy..... and by age 6 you are taken in by a friendly group of people you have pretty much known all your life.. over the next 5-8 years you build those relationships and some die at the hand of the neighbors 4 blocks over, or of some other ethnic people..


So the question is....

Is welfare, and the Government handouts that are provided are they enslaving a generation of people?? All you have to do is vote, you don't have to work like the original slaves 1st brought here by the Europeans..

 

[bigbassturd]

Racist!

 

[SpyWizard]

bigot

now that we have that out of the way, answer the question..

 

[SpyWizard]

wow, 73 views, no one wants to state an opinion.. go figure.

 

[joonp]

It is a proven fact that the majority of voters are middle class and elderly people. Most people could care less about elections and feel that all politicians are the same and regardless of who is in office little will change in regards to their socio-economic status. In regard to ur question in a way it is slavery b coz by accepting welfare u are pretty much dooming urself to a life of poverty. People think that welfare is great but in fact is far from it. A very small percentage ever escapes the grip of poverty and those that do are used as the example that all should follow and if u do not fit that mold are deemed lazy and a drag on society. Very few welfare receipients actually vote so i would disagree that it is used to garner votes

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[mrplunkey]

The US welfare system will enslave more new people this year than the entire sum of the colonial slave trade did over its entire history.

 

[Oatmeal12]

This makes perfect sense

 

[SpyWizard]

It is a proven fact that the majority of voters are middle class and elderly people. Most people could care less about elections and feel that all politicians are the same and regardless of who is in office little will change in regards to their socio-economic status. In regard to ur question in a way it is slavery b coz by accepting welfare u are pretty much dooming urself to a life of poverty. People think that welfare is great but in fact is far from it. A very small percentage ever escapes the grip of poverty and those that do are used as the example that all should follow and if u do not fit that mold are deemed lazy and a drag on society. Very few welfare receipients actually vote so i would disagree that it is used to garner votes

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proven fact??

hmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

 

[joonp]

proven fact??

hmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

That is ur evidence disputing my statement that most voters are middle class and elderly? This video is a sound bite of an ignorant person that has been edited to portray a certain view point and political agenda. The obama phone program had a very limited number of phones to give out and was for low income, elderly, and disabled people primarily. Yes im sure there was some people who were able to get it that didnt deserve it but the majority of the people who did needed it for medical reasons or other neccessities

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[SpyWizard]

no that program was put in place by President Bush...

the abuse of welfare by the current administration is the point of this thread..

 

[bigbassturd]

Wanna stop the leeching?

Issue a mandatory evacuation of every major inner city area in America, but only issue it via Fox News.

Then just bomb the fuck out of everything and start over


'merica!

 

[Oatmeal12]

Wanna stop the leeching?

Issue a mandatory evacuation of every major inner city area in America, but only issue it via Fox News.

Then just bomb the fuck out of everything and start over


'merica!

Fucking genius

'Merica!

 

[joonp]

no that program was put in place by President Bush...

the abuse of welfare by the current administration is the point of this thread..

Let ask u this then. Do u feel that the government has no moral or social obligation towards those that are economically, socially disadvantaged or handicapped? If that is the case then would ur stance b that only the strong should survive or who would u suggest fund and run the social programs that a "civilized" world should provide in a compassionate, moral, and charitable way

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[mrplunkey]

Let ask u this then. Do u feel that the government has no moral or social obligation towards those that are economically, socially disadvantaged or handicapped? If that is the case then would ur stance b that only the strong should survive or who would u suggest fund and run the social programs that a "civilized" world should provide in a compassionate, moral, and charitable way

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That's a false choice. The choices aren't this ridiculous tax-and-spend we currently have versus everyone-for-themselves.

Setting aside 1%-2% of our GDP to help the people who need the most help should be more than enough. And if you abuse or commit fraud to the system, you should face huge federal prison time.

 

[joonp]

That's a false choice. The choices aren't this ridiculous tax-and-spend we currently have versus everyone-for-themselves.

Setting aside 1%-2% of our GDP to help the people who need the most help should be more than enough. And if you abuse or commit fraud to the system, you should face huge federal prison time.

I agree that our welfare system is rife with abuse and is in need of drastic overhaul. I also believe that more requirements are needed of those on welfare. Such as drug testing and work or education requirements which will teach responsibility to hopefully propel a person towards self reliance. I believe that if u are willing to accept handouts u should be willing to give up a certain degree of personal privacy and agree to these standards. Most people against this will say its discrimination but in pure numbers there is a much higher amount of white people on welfare. In proportion to there population there is a higher amount of black people. As for high prison sentance it will never happen b coz of the huge tax on the justice system b coz of the war on drugs. Until this is treated as a social problem like alcohol related offenses a large portion of the tax dollar will continue to be devoted towards this unwinnable war

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[Dial_tone]

You lost me at slaves getting free anything. They worked from sun up to sun down for no pay whatsoever. lol @ anyone thinking they got free anything. Medical/dental? Rub some dirt on that shit, n****...you're still working today. Education? Just getting caught reading was grounds for a whipping. Transportation? Sure, once you're sold you get a free ride to your next owner.

 

[bigbassturd]

That must have been awful for you bro

 

[mrplunkey]

You lost me at slaves getting free anything. They worked from sun up to sun down for no pay whatsoever. lol @ anyone thinking they got free anything. Medical/dental? Rub some dirt on that shit, n****...you're still working today. Education? Just getting caught reading was grounds for a whipping. Transportation? Sure, once you're sold you get a free ride to your next owner.

Yes, confiscating 100% of someone's labor is horrible.

But confiscating 50% of someone's labor is the moral thing to do, because it's for the greater good.

I wonder if the plantation owners felt they were part of a greater good.

 

[WoodyO]

So taxpayers are indentured servants?

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

It is a proven fact that the majority of voters are middle class and elderly people. Most people could care less about elections and feel that all politicians are the same and regardless of who is in office little will change in regards to their socio-economic status. In regard to ur question in a way it is slavery b coz by accepting welfare u are pretty much dooming urself to a life of poverty. People think that welfare is great but in fact is far from it. A very small percentage ever escapes the grip of poverty and those that do are used as the example that all should follow and if u do not fit that mold are deemed lazy and a drag on society. Very few welfare receipients actually vote so i would disagree that it is used to garner votes

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Extremely good point. Doesn't matter who is in office... people just like to blame everything on the current president ESPECIALLY this one because he's "black" no one mentions the 8 years that we just went through that happened to be some of the worst since the Great Depression...

 

[WoodyO]

Why the quotation marks? Are we questioning his pigment as well?

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

Why the quotation marks? Are we questioning his pigment as well?

Not at all actually. I just don't like saying black because their skin color isn't truly black and I don't say African American because although their ancestors are of decent they necessarily are not.

 

[-SD-]

Extremely good point. Doesn't matter who is in office... people just like to blame everything on the current president ESPECIALLY this one because he's "black" no one mentions the 8 years that we just went through that happened to be some of the worst since the Great Depression...

I dont know what youre definition of a bad economy is but the 8 years under GW Bush were very good, the fall of 2001 notwithstanding for obvious reasons.

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

I definitely respect your opinion. I personally don't take sides but there is a lot of info out there that suggests over 60% of historians rank bush as one of the worst presidents and globally the peoples poll puts him in the top 15 worst...I realize i really cant base any of this off of stone cold "facts" just Internet bs with biased media lol

 

[mrplunkey]

I definitely respect your opinion. I personally don't take sides but there is a lot of info out there that suggests over 60% of historians rank bush as one of the worst presidents and globally the peoples poll puts him in the top 15 worst...I realize i really cant base any of this off of stone cold "facts" just Internet bs with biased media lol

Any historian that feels they can conclusively place any president's role in our 200+ year history with only six years behind them isn't a historian -- they're a hack.

 

[mrplunkey]

So taxpayers are indentured servants?

Why gosh no!

We've just created a system that if you want to earn a living for your family, you have to surrender up to 50% of it to someone you've never met first, or face giving up your personal freedom.

That doesn't sound like servitude to me at all.

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

Why gosh no!

We've just created a system that if you want to earn a living for your family, you have to surrender up to 50% of it to someone you've never met first, or face giving up your personal freedom.

That doesn't sound like servitude to me at all.

Spot on

 

[joonp]

I dont know what youre definition of a bad economy is but the 8 years under GW Bush were very good, the fall of 2001 notwithstanding for obvious reasons.

People assume they were good but most people were spending money and equity they didnt have ie the housing refi boom. Under his watch he allowed the housing industry against the advice of many experts to go unchecked and he housing market to become rediculously inflated which in turn made refi's extremely popular. Why wait and save for that new car, vacation, ect when all u have to do is sign this and well give $30000 cash. Dont worry bout tomorrow only today. Thats he american way. He got us into the depression and obama is extremely unpopular b coz he had to do many of the unpopular things necessary to get us out of that mess on top of a costly unprepared unnecessary war that sucked trillions and trillions of dollars that could have been used domestically

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[-SD-]

People assume they were good but most people were spending money and equity they didnt have ie the housing refi boom. Under his watch he allowed the housing industry against the advice of many experts to go unchecked and he housing market to become rediculously inflated which in turn made refi's extremely popular. Why wait and save for that new car, vacation, ect when all u have to do is sign this and well give $30000 cash. Dont worry bout tomorrow only today. Thats he american way. He got us into the depression and obama is extremely unpopular b coz he had to do many of the unpopular things necessary to get us out of that mess on top of a costly unprepared unnecessary war that sucked trillions and trillions of dollars that could have been used domestically

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yea and the 1990s was fueled by the tech "bubble" that burst into a recession itself. A good economy is still a good economy no matter what the aftermath.

We get a recession about once every decade if you havent noticed. good times are good times, then a recession. Doesnt discount the good times in between.

 

[joonp]

That would depend on what side of the economic divide you are. The gap in real wealth between the top 10% and the remaining 90% has grown exponentially. The average person saw their real wealth decline at a precipitous rate in comparison to the top 10% during the recession. While these peoples wealth has been regained and is again rising the majority's wealth has stagnated if not declined. If you were to ask yourself the reagan question " are u better off than you were ten yrs ago" i would venture that the mass majority's reply would be hell no.

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[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

That would depend on what side of the economic divide you are. The gap in real wealth between the top 10% and the remaining 90% has grown exponentially. The average person saw their real wealth decline at a precipitous rate in comparison to the top 10% during the recession. While these peoples wealth has been regained and is again rising the majority's wealth has stagnated if not declined. If you were to ask yourself the reagan question " are u better off than you were ten yrs ago" i would venture that the mass majority's reply would be hell no.

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Sex to my ears...I think I love you lol

 

[-SD-]

That would depend on what side of the economic divide you are. The gap in real wealth between the top 10% and the remaining 90% has grown exponentially. The average person saw their real wealth decline at a precipitous rate in comparison to the top 10% during the recession. While these peoples wealth has been regained and is again rising the majority's wealth has stagnated if not declined. If you were to ask yourself the reagan question " are u better off than you were ten yrs ago" i would venture that the mass majority's reply would be hell no.

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That still doesnt mean the good economy under bush never happened. the awesome economy of the 1920s still happened even thought the great depression followed. We were talking about a specific block of time (8 years of bush economy), not what happened before or after, which is obviously a different story.

 

[-SD-]

Sex to my ears...I think I love you lol

Thats the gayest shit ive ever read on this site.

 

[joonp]

That still doesnt mean the good economy under bush never happened. the awesome economy of the 1920s still happened even thought the great depression followed. We were talking about a specific block of time (8 years of bush economy), not what happened before or after, which is obviously a different story.

Imo a good economy is good only if after the boom and the bust u at least come out around even. In this case almost everyone is worse off than where they started.

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[joonp]

Thats the gayest shit ive ever read on this site.

I agree lol i didnt know how to respond to some shit like that...perhaps some type of weird fetish?

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[mrplunkey]

Imo a good economy is good only if after the boom and the bust u at least come out around even. In this case almost everyone is worse off than where they started.

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Barry has screwed-up our recovery and now we have an even bigger mess.

 

[-SD-]

Imo a good economy is good only if after the boom and the bust u at least come out around even. In this case almost everyone is worse off than where they started.

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then for all intents and purposes we had a great economy from about 1983-2008

 

[joonp]

then for all intents and purposes we had a great economy from about 1983-2008

Really?!! So most people ended up even? I dont know what world ur living i but the majority of people lost most their accumulated wealth. Their 401k's losses set them back 10-15 yrs. Housing equity shot to shit. If u didnt lose ur job ur pay declined when adjusted for inflation.

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[-SD-]

Really?!! So most people ended up even? I dont know what world ur living i but the majority of people lost most their accumulated wealth. Their 401k's losses set them back 10-15 yrs. Housing equity shot to shit. If u didnt lose ur job ur pay declined when adjusted for inflation.

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Are you still trying to include this recession we are still in? (2008-now)
Housing values, GDP, NYSE, unemployment figures all trended great during 1983-2008.

What exactly is your definition of a good economy if it doesnt include the 80's and 90's ???
This is macro economics, just because you know or read about poeple that didnt have it good during good times doesnt mean the good times didnt exist on a whole

 

[jackangel]

That makes perfect sense, unless you think about it for a moment.

 

[-SD-]

That makes perfect sense, unless you think about it for a moment.

What are you talking about

 

[WoodyO]

Jackangel's unemployed. You can't trust his opinion on the economy.

 

[SpyWizard]

You lost me at slaves getting free anything. They worked from sun up to sun down for no pay whatsoever. lol @ anyone thinking they got free anything. Medical/dental? Rub some dirt on that shit, n****...you're still working today. Education? Just getting caught reading was grounds for a whipping. Transportation? Sure, once you're sold you get a free ride to your next owner.

exactly... the slaves of today don't work..

 

[SpyWizard]

People assume they were good but most people were spending money and equity they didnt have ie the housing refi boom. Under his watch he allowed the housing industry against the advice of many experts to go unchecked and he housing market to become rediculously inflated which in turn made refi's extremely popular. Why wait and save for that new car, vacation, ect when all u have to do is sign this and well give $30000 cash. Dont worry bout tomorrow only today. Thats he american way. He got us into the depression and obama is extremely unpopular b coz he had to do many of the unpopular things necessary to get us out of that mess on top of a costly unprepared unnecessary war that sucked trillions and trillions of dollars that could have been used domestically

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like 4-5 million for each drone missile used by by king obama??

 

[-SD-]

Obama hasnt gotten us out of shit

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

Well the first depression(republican president) took 10 years toget out of so the 2nd one that was started under bush(republican) will most likely take the same amount of time if not longer considering there are more things involved....maybe if we all work together instead of placing the blame on 1 person...we can get back to normal quicker.

 

[-SD-]

Well the first depression(republican president) took 10 years toget out of so the 2nd one that was started under bush(republican) will most likely take the same amount of time if not longer considering there are more things involved....maybe if we all work together instead of placing the blame on 1 person...we can get back to normal quicker.

You mean stop blaming one party (republican) for something as large and complex as a great depression?

Or does working together only apply to certain parties?

 

[mrplunkey]

You mean stop blaming one party (republican) for something as large and complex as a great depression?

Or does working together only apply to certain parties?

Conservatives conceding to liberals = working together

Liberals conceding to conservatives = political terrorism

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

we all have to work together but saying Obama(democrat) is to blame for the last 12 years, like most everyone here is saying, is ludicrous.

 

[mrplunkey]

we all have to work together but saying Obama(democrat) is to blame for the last 12 years, like most everyone here is saying, is ludicrous.

Please provide a quote of anyone in this thread claiming Obama is to blame for the last 12 years.

Failure to do so in 15 mins or less = bomb.

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

Please provide a quote of anyone in this thread claiming Obama is to blame for the last 12 years.

Failure to do so in 15 mins or less = bomb.

Lol maybe "blame" was a strong word. A few people in this thread aren't giving him any credit at all lets put it that way and if u can't see any comments that are against Obama then refresh your page.

 

[bigbassturd]

Here's one against him:

He's a fucking rampant spending half-wit piece of liberal garbage that thinks government is the answer to all your problems, and the entire country would be better off if Airforce One went down in a fireball with his beast wife aboard and crashed into John McCain's house while he was sleeping.

 

[EatLiftSleepRepeat]

<\3

 

[-SD-]

Obama is certainly to blame for the pathetic economy weve had. Any recession should take no longer than 2 years to pull out of completely. Wasnt 2009 supposed to be the "summer of recovery" or some nonsense? Hes well into his 2nd term now. Time to put the big boy pants on and quit blaming bush.

Hes failed.

 

[gatemoney]

If a person is provided free

medical
dental
food
housing
education
phone/communication
transportation / bus

what more do they really need... and if they don't have to work for it why wouldn't they take advantage of that??


A slave on a plantation did not receive many of the technologies/experiences we have today but were in much the same situation..

I mean can you imagine the horror of it all?? you are in your home sleeping with your family, and your neighbors from 6 miles away come into your town and kill all that resist and capture the men/women and children and sell them to these crazy looking white men, who put you on a boat where 1/2 of your family die (lack of space/food) then 30 days later you are taken off the ship paraded before a bunch more crazy white crackers and then you find yourself pickin cotton eating hog guts (chitterlings) for supper..

Now, in today's situation, you are born into a family where you may or may not have a baby daddy, but your momma is crazy..... and by age 6 you are taken in by a friendly group of people you have pretty much known all your life.. over the next 5-8 years you build those relationships and some die at the hand of the neighbors 4 blocks over, or of some other ethnic people..


So the question is....

Is welfare, and the Government handouts that are provided are they enslaving a generation of people?? All you have to do is vote, you don't have to work like the original slaves 1st brought here by the Europeans..

Yes.
But in reality we are all economic slaves anyway.

 

[joonp]

Obama is certainly to blame for the pathetic economy weve had. Any recession should take no longer than 2 years to pull out of completely. Wasnt 2009 supposed to be the "summer of recovery" or some nonsense? Hes well into his 2nd term now. Time to put the big boy pants on and quit blaming bush.

Hes failed.

Two yrs to pull out of?!! Wow!! As a globalized world all the markets and industry are tied to one another. It wasnt only americans that pushed all in on the real estate bonds (reit's) so every financial market world wide gambled and lost. It was a long line of dominos that fell. Previously in a recession we could rely on strong foreign markets to help ease some of the pressure. This time they were in as bad if not worse shape as us and a drowning person cant save another drowning person. Thats why its taking so long to revive the economy.

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[joonp]

Obama is certainly to blame for the pathetic economy weve had. Any recession should take no longer than 2 years to pull out of completely. Wasnt 2009 supposed to be the "summer of recovery" or some nonsense? Hes well into his 2nd term now. Time to put the big boy pants on and quit blaming bush.

Hes failed.

I am in no way singling out bush as the sole reason for the mess we are in. There is plenty of blame to go around all parties included. They spend more time toeing the party line and passing the hat around to special interests to try to fix anything. Yes obama tred and failed in many ways but he also instituted good programs as well. Whether your particular political ideals allow u to see that is your interpertation. We all know a republican is coming to the white house next so we will see if the parties philosophical ideals will be able to resurrect the economy and foreign respect


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[joonp]

Here's one against him:

He's a fucking rampant spending half-wit piece of liberal garbage that thinks government is the answer to all your problems, and the entire country would be better off if Airforce One went down in a fireball with his beast wife aboard and crashed into John McCain's house while he was sleeping.

Heres a reply....bush is a drug addled idiot puppet who was owned by the saudi royal family that bailed him out in his previous businesses which is why he let osama escape the mountains of afghanistan. He was the bitch of karl rove and his vice president who really ran the show. He started the war so haliburton could loot the treasury and who do u think was the former ceo of haliburton before becoming vice president?

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[bigbassturd]

Heres a reply....bush is a drug addled idiot puppet who was owned by the saudi royal family that bailed him out in his previous businesses which is why he let osama escape the mountains of afghanistan. He was the bitch of karl rove and his vice president who really ran the show. He started the war so haliburton could loot the treasury and who do u think was the former ceo of haliburton before becoming vice president?

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I didn't realize I said dick about Bush.

Oh, I fuckin didn't. Typical response of you fuckwads ''yeah obama fuckin sucks ass, but it's ok since Bush sucked too!'

That's a cop out you puke

 

[-SD-]

I am in no way singling out bush as the sole reason for the mess we are in. There is plenty of blame to go around all parties included. They spend more time toeing the party line and passing the hat around to special interests to try to fix anything. Yes obama tred and failed in many ways but he also instituted good programs as well. Whether your particular political ideals allow u to see that is your interpertation. We all know a republican is coming to the white house next so we will see if the parties philosophical ideals will be able to resurrect the economy and foreign respect


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Just what exactly has obama done? I cant think of anything besides the impending train wreck that is obamacare. Cash for clunkers? lol
The stimulus was a disaster and did nothing but keep unemployment at unacceptable high levels for 5 years. When will we learn the government cant spend its way to prosperity? Government never creates, it only takes, moves around, and redistributes in many forms. You cant take a bucket of water from the deep end of the swimming pool then dump it into the shallow end and call it progress.

 

[joonp]

I didn't realize I said dick about Bush.

Oh, I fuckin didn't. Typical response of you fuckwads ''yeah obama fuckin sucks ass, but it's ok since Bush sucked too!'

That's a cop out you puke

Lmao take what u will from it. Imo they all suck...but its nice to see what conservatives have to say even if i dont agree with u i still respect ur opinion

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[bigbassturd]

What a coincidence, I could give a fuck less about your opinion

 

[joonp]

Just what exactly has obama done? I cant think of anything besides the impending train wreck that is obamacare. Cash for clunkers? lol
The stimulus was a disaster and did nothing but keep unemployment at unacceptable high levels for 5 years. When will we learn the government cant spend its way to prosperity? Government never creates, it only takes, moves around, and redistributes in many forms. You cant take a bucket of water from the deep end of the swimming pool then dump it into the shallow end and call it progress.

Let me ask u this then. As the richest and most powerful nation in the world do u think that it is morally and socially prudent that a pretty large percent of the population has no access to basic medical care because they can't afford it? Basically u have american citizens living in third world conditions while at the same time touting that we are the example that the rest of the world should use as the example to model themselves after. Most of the eu and other countries provide standard universal care without going bankrupt or decreasing the standaed of living for the majority. Free market economics has raised the cost of medical care to an unaffordable level.

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[mrplunkey]

Let me ask u this then. As the richest and most powerful nation in the world do u think that it is morally and socially prudent that a pretty large percent of the population has no access to basic medical care because they can't afford it? Basically u have american citizens living in third world conditions while at the same time touting that we are the example that the rest of the world should use as the example to model themselves after. Most of the eu and other countries provide standard universal care without going bankrupt or decreasing the standaed of living for the majority. Free market economics has raised the cost of medical care to an unaffordable level.

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Yeah, US health care is a free market.

You're a fucking retard. Want a better health care system? Then make one that sterilizes you so you can't reproduce and cuts off your fingers so you can't pull a voting booth lever.

That's our problem in the first place -- we allow people like you to proliferate.

 

[joonp]

What a coincidence, I could give a fuck less about your opinion

Ah conservatives....if u dont agree with us then u must die lmfao dont give into the dark force evil it is

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[joonp]

Yeah, US health care is a free market.

You're a fucking retard. Want a better health care system? Then make one that sterilizes you so you can't reproduce and cuts off your fingers so you can't pull a voting booth lever.

That's our problem in the first place -- we allow people like you to proliferate.

Lmao resorting to name calling and insults now? That is very belittling and beneath u

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[bigbassturd]

Serious question. What do you think the government's responsibility is?

 

[joonp]

Yeah, US health care is a free market.

You're a fucking retard. Want a better health care system? Then make one that sterilizes you so you can't reproduce and cuts off your fingers so you can't pull a voting booth lever.

That's our problem in the first place -- we allow people like you to proliferate.

Last i checked the constitution guaranteed freedom of speech...oh yea i forgot conservatives dont believe in civil liberties which is why they have been seriously eroded

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[-SD-]

Let me ask u this then. As the richest and most powerful nation in the world do u think that it is morally and socially prudent that a pretty large percent of the population has no access to basic medical care because they can't afford it? Basically u have american citizens living in third world conditions while at the same time touting that we are the example that the rest of the world should use as the example to model themselves after. Most of the eu and other countries provide standard universal care without going bankrupt or decreasing the standaed of living for the majority. Free market economics has raised the cost of medical care to an unaffordable level.

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So how do we fairly pay for all of it? The money has to come from somewhere and guess what, its taxpayers.
Health care is not a right, neither is college, a car, or any other sacred cow that people think they are entitled to.

 

[bigbassturd]

Fuck I just tried to buy a private jet, I don't have the sufficient funds.

Those things are way too expensive, we should make the government regulate the cost, and cover what I can't so that I too can enjoy a private jet

It's my gutdam right!!!!1

 

[joonp]

Serious question. What do you think the government's responsibility is?

The governments responsibility is to provide judicial, social, and military oversight. I believe that we are over regulated and government does not need to be a part of every aspect of our lives. I agree with u that the government does not need to necessarily spend its way out of a recession. A mix of spending and business concessions would be the best way but also keep a balanced budget. Socially it should provide to those in need but should demand more in return for these subsidies. I work two jobs and pay taxes and yes it pisses me off to see people sitting around doing nothing and getting a free ride. Militarily it should protect our interests but not be the worlds policeman.

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[-SD-]

Last i checked the constitution guaranteed freedom of speech...oh yea i forgot conservatives dont believe in civil liberties which is why they have been seriously eroded

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Guess which amendment protects the 1st one.....

 

[joonp]

Fuck I just tried to buy a private jet, I don't have the sufficient funds.

Those things are way too expensive, we should make the government regulate the cost, and cover what I can't so that I too can enjoy a private jet

It's my gutdam right!!!!1

U cant compare a jet to medical care. A jet is a luxury and medical care is a necessity. I never said regulation of the medical industry. I said it should be provided and available to all citizens.

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[-SD-]

U cant compare a jet to medical care. A jet is a luxury and medical care is a necessity. I never said regulation of the medical industry. I said it should be provided and available to all citizens.

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You cant provide and make available to all citizens without government regulation. You think companies are just going to lay down and give to people out of the goodness of their hearts? Human nature, incentives, dont forget those factors.

 

[bigbassturd]

U cant compare a jet to medical care. A jet is a luxury and medical care is a necessity. I never said regulation of the medical industry. I said it should be provided and available to all citizens.

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they are both privileges, not rights. if you want healthcare, buy it. If you can't afford it, too fucking bad

 

[-SD-]

Housing is pretty fucking important also. how about providing free housing for all????

 

[-SD-]

joonp sounds like an 18 year old freshman in his first economics class.

How old are you bro?

 

[mrplunkey]

Last i checked the constitution guaranteed freedom of speech...oh yea i forgot conservatives dont believe in civil liberties which is why they have been seriously eroded

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Omg great point! We do have freedom of speech.

And moderators here sometimes change or delete post.. But doesn't everyone have freedom of speech? Why aren't the moderators here going to jail? Omg this is a violation of the Constitution!

Come to think of it, I'm going to tell my boss to go to hell as well as the judge that wants me to pay a speeding ticket. Fuck them! It's my constitutional right to free speech.

Good call man. Protect your right today.

 

[musclemom]

they are both privileges, not rights. if you want healthcare, buy it. If you can't afford it, too fucking bad

Healthcare has been considered a necessity for the health of the community. It's why healthcare is provided to military personnel without charge. The most primitive of indigenous tribes have healthcare for all members. Every country America defeated/liberated, healthcare WAS established as mandatory for all citizens.

Tell you what, braniac, educate yourself a little:
http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/archives/address_text.html

Here's the jist of what FDR considered CIVILIZED human rights (excerpt from a speech given January 11, 1944):

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Every ONE of those rights, which he considered essential to the society as it was evolving, has been virtually obliterated.

Are you seriously telling me YOU are smarter than FDR?

You're an ignorant piece of shit who should STFU and do the world a fucking favor. Your mind is so closed, you actually believe the paradigms you have been fed and support them when in reality they don't do one thing to support you. You're an ignorant puppet spewing rhetoric.

 

[mrplunkey]

Healthcare has been considered a necessity for the health of the community. It's why healthcare is provided to military personnel without charge. The most primitive of indigenous tribes have healthcare for all members. Every country America defeated/liberated, healthcare WAS established as mandatory for all citizens.

Tell you what, braniac, educate yourself a little:
http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/archives/address_text.html

Here's the jist of what FDR considered CIVILIZED human rights (excerpt from a speech given January 11, 1944):



Every ONE of those rights, which he considered essential to the society as it was evolving, has been virtually obliterated.

Are you seriously telling me YOU are smarter than FDR?

You're an ignorant piece of shit who should STFU and do the world a fucking favor. Your mind is so closed, you actually believe the paradigms you have been fed and support them when in reality they don't do one thing to support you. You're an ignorant puppet spewing rhetoric.

You certainly are passionate about this, so why not turn that passion into action?

To fund these big ideas, why not dedicate your life to making a huge income that produces millions of dollars in taxes? Then we could have that great society.

I'be always been amused by the chicken-in-every-pot mentality, because it always involves gobs and gobs of other people's money.

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[musclemom]

You certainly are passionate about this, so why not turn that passion into action?

To fund these big ideas, why not dedicate your life to making a huge income that produces millions of dollars in taxes? Then we could have that great society.

I'be always been amused by the chicken-in-every-pot mentality, because it always involves gobs and gobs of other people's money.

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In reality, we could make millions, if not billions, by closing loopholes that are being abused within the tax code and forcing corporations to actually pay what they owe (as opposed to allowing them to shelter their profits overseas or within convenient deductions. There are many who consider the current bloated tax code "squishy"). Let's be realistic, the fact is lobbyists control congress, not voters. There's over 10,000 lobbyists to 535 member of congress and THEY donate to political campaigns and THEY are the ones who employ congressmen (and members of the USDA, FDA, EPA, etc., etc., etc.) after their terms are over.

I hold no delusions, ethics versus money, more than 90% of the time, money wins. Yay you, Plunkey and your cohorts, fuck the little guy, you've got the $$$ Good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that your children, and their children, are going to have health issues. It's going to happen, sooner or later. Too much pesticides, the wrong GMOs, it will happen. Sooner or later we'll all pay for the folly of "better living through chemistry". It may literally be the death of humanity.

 

[joonp]

joonp sounds like an 18 year old freshman in his first economics class.

How old are you bro?

I am many years out of college. I must say you guys all sound like every conservative ive ever met and debated with. Uncompassionate, uncaring, unreasonable, unwilling for any compromise, and believe that they are gods gift to the world and its their duty to bring fire and brimstone to the heathens of the world

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[mrplunkey]

In reality, we could make millions, if not billions, by closing loopholes that are being abused within the tax code and forcing corporations to actually pay what they owe (as opposed to allowing them to shelter their profits overseas or within convenient deductions. There are many who consider the current bloated tax code "squishy"). Let's be realistic, the fact is lobbyists control congress, not voters. There's over 10,000 lobbyists to 535 member of congress and THEY donate to political campaigns and THEY are the ones who employ congressmen (and members of the USDA, FDA, EPA, etc., etc., etc.) after their terms are over.

I hold no delusions, ethics versus money, more than 90% of the time, money wins. Yay you, Plunkey and your cohorts, fuck the little guy, you've got the $$$ Good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that your children, and their children, are going to have health issues. It's going to happen, sooner or later. Too much pesticides, the wrong GMOs, it will happen. Sooner or later we'll all pay for the folly of "better living through chemistry". It may literally be the death of humanity.

Great misdirection: we'll take the money from someone else!

You didn't answer my original question, do I'll restate it:

You clearly like the "great society" concept.

Are you working as hard as you possibly can to generate the absolute maximum tax revenues to fund it? Are you going to extreme behaviors to insure you are putting in more than you are taking out?

Or do you expect all your great theories should be funded by someone else?

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[joonp]

Housing is pretty fucking important also. how about providing free housing for all????

Im talking bout those who cannot provide for themselves, and there already is a program in place its called public hpusing and section 8. I dont know why everytime i say provide for those who cant provide for themselves you only hear everyone. This is called human compassion. You know christian charity.

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[mrplunkey]

Im talking bout those who cannot provide for themselves, and there already is a program in place its called public hpusing and section 8. I dont know why everytime i say provide for those who cant provide for themselves you only hear everyone. This is called human compassion. You know christian charity.

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Yeah, section 8 housing has been a huge success. Think about how much harder it would be for a crack dealer to not have a place for their inventory.


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[musclemom]

Great misdirection: we'll take the money from someone else!

You didn't answer my original question, do I'll restate it:

You clearly like the "great society" concept.

Are you working as hard as you possibly can to generate the absolute maximum tax revenues to fund it? Are you going to extreme behaviors to insure you are putting in more than you are taking out?

Or do you expect all your great theories should be funded by someone else?

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Seriously, you're accusing me of misdirection?

Once upon a time I would have fallen for that, no longer.

Let's try this, Brian. The corporations use the infrastructure of America, the water, the sewers, the roads. Without America, they wouldn't exist. This crap was hashed out in ancient Greece in the time of Aristotle and the same rhetoric holds true now that held true then. The corporations could not succeed without the infrastructure, both real and intellectual, of the country they developed and exist within. Without the laws of the country, they wouldn't have been able to develop to begin with.

It is in the best interest of the corporations that the country they exist within thrives. That country cannot thrive without their contributions, because they succeeded because of the roads, sewage, water, resources, employees of that country. You can't expect the middle and lower classes to carry the success of the corporations, that is an obvious recipe for disaster.

But apparently there is some screwed up mentality that the rich deserve something for nothing (don't get me started on the BS trickle down theory). Hey, I got an idea, screw welfare moms, let's talk about GE, Boeing, Wells Fargo, Honeywell, etc., etc., who make BILLIONS in profits and don't pay a dime in taxes because of tax loopholes. Is it legal? However, that does not make it RIGHT. What big corporations don't pay in taxes and shelter overseas outweighs what is paid out in social services a thousandfold.

 

[mrplunkey]

It is absolutely hilarious to me that you have no idea how the global economy and global taxation works.

I've asked you this once already, and you didn't answer. Do here goes again:

If the government of India sent you a $2,500 income tax bill, would you pay it?

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[-SD-]

Im talking bout those who cannot provide for themselves, and there already is a program in place its called public hpusing and section 8. I dont know why everytime i say provide for those who cant provide for themselves you only hear everyone. This is called human compassion. You know christian charity.

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Well is it Christian charity? Or is it subsidized housing funded by involuntary taxation? You keep contradicting yourself.

Im all for the poor taking advantage of this nations rich tradition of charitable contributions. We should actually focus more on that aspect instead of taxation.

 

[musclemom]

It is absolutely hilarious to me that you have no idea how the global economy and global taxation works.

I've asked you this once already, and you didn't answer. Do here goes again:

If the government of India sent you a $2,500 income tax bill, would you pay it?

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If I had a corporation that used the infrastructures (meaning roads, sewers, garbage disposal, potable water, etc.) then yes, I'd pay the bill.

Which, oddly enough, is a bill most American corporations aren't confronted with.

Of course, due to the BS American tax laws, you can actually have income in a country where you never used the infrastructure, but since those countries have 0% income tax, big deal.

And then when corporations want to get their money INTO America, they just wait until an election, and pay off congressmen so they can move their profits into America at a significantly reduced tax rate.

That's right, folks, Boeing, GE, Microsoft, Google, etc., etc., pay something like 5% or less on their profits than ummmm, the average American worker making under 80K a year who pays at least 15%.

 

[-SD-]

And the lesson once again is life isnt fair.

 

[musclemom]

And the lesson once again is life isnt fair.

Pathetic response.

Try educating yourself. Corporations can afford lobbiests. Lobbiests are the ones who really are in control which means we have the best government money can buy.

Your vote is worth exactly what you flushed this morning after breakfast.

You got the money, you get what you want and the government dishes propaganda to tell everyone else how much they need it. Open your damned eyes, ears and mind you fucking sheep.

 

[-SD-]

Pathetic response.

Try educating yourself. Corporations can afford lobbiests. Lobbiests are the ones who really are in control which means we have the best government money can buy.

Your vote is worth exactly what you flushed this morning after breakfast.

You got the money, you get what you want and the government dishes propaganda to tell everyone else how much they need it. Open your damned eyes, ears and mind you fucking sheep.

Of course i know all about lobbyist and money in government. You can thank your government for that also when they changed campaign finance laws to allow limitless corp spending on lobbying and election contributions.

I voted for Gary Johnson so my conscience is clean, even if it counts for jack shit.

 

[dallasboy]

Riddle me this:

Democratic (liberal) controlled cities and states (think Detroit, Chicago, Cali, etc.) have the highest unemployment, highest poverty, highest taxes (which should fund all the social programs, right?), highest crime, low standard of living and all have massive debts (Detroit Ch11) and are all about to file bankruptcy and will look to Washington for a bailout??

Red states are the opposite. Low taxes, low unemployment, higher standard of living, lower crime, etc....

The liberal economic mindset ALWAYS fails with lower standard of living and higher crime and poverty.

History is littered with liberal socialism policies that failed and collapsed nations.


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[-SD-]

Dont forget Baltimore

And cali is hemorhaging its population to more tax and regulatory friendly states like texas

 

[mrplunkey]

If I had a corporation that used the infrastructures (meaning roads, sewers, garbage disposal, potable water, etc.) then yes, I'd pay the bill.

Which, oddly enough, is a bill most American corporations aren't confronted with.

Of course, due to the BS American tax laws, you can actually have income in a country where you never used the infrastructure, but since those countries have 0% income tax, big deal.

And then when corporations want to get their money INTO America, they just wait until an election, and pay off congressmen so they can move their profits into America at a significantly reduced tax rate.

That's right, folks, Boeing, GE, Microsoft, Google, etc., etc., pay something like 5% or less on their profits than ummmm, the average American worker making under 80K a year who pays at least 15%.

Outstanding!

So you'll buy product and services from India -- or products and services derived from india. But when they send you the bill for the portion of their infrastructure you consume, you slither away just like Boeing, GE, Microsoft and Google.


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[puddlemonkey]

I voted for Gary Johnson so my conscience is clean, even if it counts for jack shit.

*high five*

 

[puddlemonkey]

now all we need is bikiniimom to come back and this place will be jumpin'

 

[joonp]

Yeah, section 8 housing has been a huge success. Think about how much harder it would be for a crack dealer to not have a place for their inventory.


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Thats a pretty racist statement considering a much larger percentage of the people on welfare and receiving section 8 are white

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[-SD-]

Thats a pretty racist statement considering a much larger percentage of the people on welfare and receiving section 8 are white

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Think about how much harder it would be for a meth dealer to store his inventory. Sound better?

 

[joonp]

Well is it Christian charity? Or is it subsidized housing funded by involuntary taxation? You keep contradicting yourself.

Im all for the poor taking advantage of this nations rich tradition of charitable contributions. We should actually focus more on that aspect instead of taxation.

Do i have to explain everything in depth for you? Christian charity is a social concept that as a civilized society we have a civic duty to provide for those unable. This is a basic human element that perhaps is being lost in this globalized individualistic society.
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