Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
tombphilips
New member
This is not intended to be a definitive word on the side effects of Nandralone / Nandralone dodeconate(referred to hereafter as Deca) similar to a Realgains post.
It is intended to present the best understanding I currently have and hopefully receive some informative comments that lead me and others to better understanding.
Nandralone is 19nor-testosterone. Its chemical structure is like testosterone, but with the carbon atom missing at the 19th position. For some of the below discussions it is also important to note that nandralone is a progestin (or a substance that has progesterone like activity). Progesterone, Testosterone, Nandralone, (even Estrogen), and most steroid hormones are quite similar in chemical composition. How they behave seems to have to do with subtleties associated with the 3d structure and how it interacts with the various receptors in the body.
Negative side-effects of Deca include:
1. Gyno
2. Impotence
3. HPTA shutdown
To be discussed less but still possible
4. Androgenetic Alopecia – baldness
5. Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia – prostate enlargement
6. Acne
Too be considered, but not discussed:
7. Cholesterol profile problems
8. High blood pressure…
1. Gynocomastia – this of course is the growth of breast like tissue. Gyno is caused by multiple hormones and there action at the receptors in the breast area. From a list by Macrophage, there are a number of hormones that can lead to gynocomastia:
Estrogens
Progestins
Prolactin
IGF-1
T3?
Estrogen is the most commonly dealt with gyno agent. Anti aromatize and ER antagonists like Novaldex and Clomid are used to fight this. Most now suggest that Deca can aromatize, but to a much lesser degree than Testosterone. Generally anti-estrogen efforts are to be used with Deca to try and take care of gyno caused upon the theory that Progestins heighten the sensitivity of the ER in the breast and then small amounts of Estrogen can lead to gyno when on Deca. My understanding is that this has been ineffective generally for those susceptible to Deca gyno. My anecdotal opinion is that attacking estrogen is a last ditch effort that may help, but may not. (add in Test to your Deca cycle and this becomes important though).
Progestins: If I do not already appear ignorant then here goes! Deca should have some effect at the PR (it is of course classified a progestin). Does it attach to the PR and cause gyno? Does it attach to the PR and upregulate the ER and make Estrogen gyno more likely? Or does it attach to the PR in the breast and not do too much? I don’t know. If you want to address this Progestin effect this is what I have understood so far. Stanozolol (Winny) can be used with Deca. Some evidence suggests that Winny will bind to the PR and inhibit Deca from causing harm. My understanding is that this is not a 100% effective gyno deterrent. RU-486 is an anti-progesterone drug. Some have reported that with this drug Deca will not cause gyno. This drug apparently has some negative sides and is also quite hard to come by.
Prolactin: Prolactin is a hormone produced naturally by the body. It appears that Deca and Tren result in elevated levels of prolactin. Are these elevated levels of prolactin responsible for Deca gyno. This seems quite possible to me, but again I do not know. Prolactin can be addressed (and it seem highly likely that prolactin is much of the reason for Deca impotence so it prolly should be addressed). Dopamine agonists can be used to lower prolactin substancially. The two most common are bromocriptine and caborgoline. It seems that Cabergoline (dostinex) is slightly better and has lower sides, but is also harder to find.
IGF-1 and T3: These seem unlikely to play in the whole Deca = gyno thing.
2. Impotence and/or loss of sex drive(the common term is Deca D***)
It seems to me that the cause of this phenomena is one of 2 things or a combination of both. Low testosterone and high prolactin. (Progestin effect may increase or decrease male libido, so it is a possibility, but anecdotal reports of improved function with bromo leave me leaning away from this) Testosterone suppression seems likely with Deca. This can be avoided by adding some Testosterone to your stack. Also, Proviron seems to be touted frequently as a wonderful addition for sexual function High levels of prolactin will also result in sexual problems, and treatment with cabergoline or bromocriptine seem to correct these problems. At least one EF member has reported that his Deca problems in this area where completely cured by bromocriptine.
3. HPTA shutdown:
The hypothalamus controls the release of hormones (it sends signals to the pituitary gland which sends signals to other parts of the body like the testes). My understanding is that the hypothalamus most definitely samples the level of testosterone and estrogen in the body. If either is too high it will not signal the production of more testosterone. Clomid therapy shuts of the estrogen portion of this signal and can aid in HPTA recovery. Deca is known to shut down the HPTA very hard, but Test and Estrogen levels are typically not too elevated by Deca. The structure of Deca suggest that it could (as most steroids are) be sensed in the same may Test is at the hypothalamus, but that would not explain why Deca is so much more suppressive than other steroids. It has been theorized that Progesterone (or likely any Progestin) will also shut down the HPTA. So perhaps Deca is more suppressive due to this. It seems possible that Prolactin might also have some effect. I really have no idea if it is progestin effect or prolactin effect. It seems to me that RU-486 and Dopamine Agonists are your two choices. I do not know which will be more effective.
4,5, and 6. All I want to say about this is that 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in the scalp, prostate, and skin make Deca less androgenic. This means that if you are not taking Test with your Deca you are better off to not take a 5AR inhibitor. This doesn’t mean that sides are not possible. The difference between 100mg/week test and all its test/DHT effects vs 2000mg/week Deca and its nandralone/DHN effects suggest that you still could have issues, but you are better off if you allow the conversion of Deca to DHN than if you inhibit it.
If you read this far than you must really be crazy!
If you have any corrections then this is why I wrote it please respond.
Enjoy.
It is intended to present the best understanding I currently have and hopefully receive some informative comments that lead me and others to better understanding.
Nandralone is 19nor-testosterone. Its chemical structure is like testosterone, but with the carbon atom missing at the 19th position. For some of the below discussions it is also important to note that nandralone is a progestin (or a substance that has progesterone like activity). Progesterone, Testosterone, Nandralone, (even Estrogen), and most steroid hormones are quite similar in chemical composition. How they behave seems to have to do with subtleties associated with the 3d structure and how it interacts with the various receptors in the body.
Negative side-effects of Deca include:
1. Gyno
2. Impotence
3. HPTA shutdown
To be discussed less but still possible
4. Androgenetic Alopecia – baldness
5. Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia – prostate enlargement
6. Acne
Too be considered, but not discussed:
7. Cholesterol profile problems
8. High blood pressure…
1. Gynocomastia – this of course is the growth of breast like tissue. Gyno is caused by multiple hormones and there action at the receptors in the breast area. From a list by Macrophage, there are a number of hormones that can lead to gynocomastia:
Estrogens
Progestins
Prolactin
IGF-1
T3?
Estrogen is the most commonly dealt with gyno agent. Anti aromatize and ER antagonists like Novaldex and Clomid are used to fight this. Most now suggest that Deca can aromatize, but to a much lesser degree than Testosterone. Generally anti-estrogen efforts are to be used with Deca to try and take care of gyno caused upon the theory that Progestins heighten the sensitivity of the ER in the breast and then small amounts of Estrogen can lead to gyno when on Deca. My understanding is that this has been ineffective generally for those susceptible to Deca gyno. My anecdotal opinion is that attacking estrogen is a last ditch effort that may help, but may not. (add in Test to your Deca cycle and this becomes important though).
Progestins: If I do not already appear ignorant then here goes! Deca should have some effect at the PR (it is of course classified a progestin). Does it attach to the PR and cause gyno? Does it attach to the PR and upregulate the ER and make Estrogen gyno more likely? Or does it attach to the PR in the breast and not do too much? I don’t know. If you want to address this Progestin effect this is what I have understood so far. Stanozolol (Winny) can be used with Deca. Some evidence suggests that Winny will bind to the PR and inhibit Deca from causing harm. My understanding is that this is not a 100% effective gyno deterrent. RU-486 is an anti-progesterone drug. Some have reported that with this drug Deca will not cause gyno. This drug apparently has some negative sides and is also quite hard to come by.
Prolactin: Prolactin is a hormone produced naturally by the body. It appears that Deca and Tren result in elevated levels of prolactin. Are these elevated levels of prolactin responsible for Deca gyno. This seems quite possible to me, but again I do not know. Prolactin can be addressed (and it seem highly likely that prolactin is much of the reason for Deca impotence so it prolly should be addressed). Dopamine agonists can be used to lower prolactin substancially. The two most common are bromocriptine and caborgoline. It seems that Cabergoline (dostinex) is slightly better and has lower sides, but is also harder to find.
IGF-1 and T3: These seem unlikely to play in the whole Deca = gyno thing.
2. Impotence and/or loss of sex drive(the common term is Deca D***)
It seems to me that the cause of this phenomena is one of 2 things or a combination of both. Low testosterone and high prolactin. (Progestin effect may increase or decrease male libido, so it is a possibility, but anecdotal reports of improved function with bromo leave me leaning away from this) Testosterone suppression seems likely with Deca. This can be avoided by adding some Testosterone to your stack. Also, Proviron seems to be touted frequently as a wonderful addition for sexual function High levels of prolactin will also result in sexual problems, and treatment with cabergoline or bromocriptine seem to correct these problems. At least one EF member has reported that his Deca problems in this area where completely cured by bromocriptine.
3. HPTA shutdown:
The hypothalamus controls the release of hormones (it sends signals to the pituitary gland which sends signals to other parts of the body like the testes). My understanding is that the hypothalamus most definitely samples the level of testosterone and estrogen in the body. If either is too high it will not signal the production of more testosterone. Clomid therapy shuts of the estrogen portion of this signal and can aid in HPTA recovery. Deca is known to shut down the HPTA very hard, but Test and Estrogen levels are typically not too elevated by Deca. The structure of Deca suggest that it could (as most steroids are) be sensed in the same may Test is at the hypothalamus, but that would not explain why Deca is so much more suppressive than other steroids. It has been theorized that Progesterone (or likely any Progestin) will also shut down the HPTA. So perhaps Deca is more suppressive due to this. It seems possible that Prolactin might also have some effect. I really have no idea if it is progestin effect or prolactin effect. It seems to me that RU-486 and Dopamine Agonists are your two choices. I do not know which will be more effective.
4,5, and 6. All I want to say about this is that 5-alpha-reductase (5AR) in the scalp, prostate, and skin make Deca less androgenic. This means that if you are not taking Test with your Deca you are better off to not take a 5AR inhibitor. This doesn’t mean that sides are not possible. The difference between 100mg/week test and all its test/DHT effects vs 2000mg/week Deca and its nandralone/DHN effects suggest that you still could have issues, but you are better off if you allow the conversion of Deca to DHN than if you inhibit it.
If you read this far than you must really be crazy!
If you have any corrections then this is why I wrote it please respond.
Enjoy.
