Side effects of long-term anti-E use

[Dr.X]

Every system in our body has some sort of way of providing homeostatic regulation. When we juice, our own endogenous production of testosterone decreases. Many other examples can be given. I wonder if the same type of thing happens with an antiestrogen? If you take an anti-E that inactivates the aromatase enzyme, I wonder what compensation mechanisms are induced. In that particular case an upregulation of aromatase may occur. This would be troublesome when you stop taking the anti-E. Also the same argument could be made for anti-E's that block the ER like Nolva. The receptor may be sensitized after the cessation of treatment. Also, more endogenous estrogen may be produced as a result of disrupting the negative feedback loop. Any thoughts or experiences?

 

[NFG123]

I don't know if aromatase activity after cessation of anti aromatase drugs has ever been investigated, it would be interesting to see how that works.

As far as "feed back" from endogenous estradiol ... this is primarily manufactured in men by conversion of T to E. In the respect that if you are using juice that doesnt aromatise, during and after your cycle, even with anti-E treatment, your E levels are actually LOWER because you have supressed T levels. When your T levels come back on line after clomid therapy, you will see an increase endogenous E because of aromatase activity on T. This isn't because of "receptor up" or "receptor" down regulation. Merely the result of endocrine function.

I think "receptor sensitivity" is a very misleading term. Receptors dont just decide they will bind their ligands better or worse, they may be modulated by other cofactors that will be produced/repressed. After all, the AT and ER are Transcription Factors = they bind DNA and induce transcription of downstream genes ... they also need RNA Pol II, and other coactivators ...

NFG

 

[Rico]

I have always looked at anti-e's (Nolva is what I take) as more of estrogen REGULATORS than blockers. I think, although I could be wrong, that even at a dosage of say 10mg. Nolva/day while on a moderate cycle of steroids prone to high aromatization like dbol and test, that estrogen levels are still much higher than when off cycle. If that were true, I don't think the body would be tricked into producing more endogenous estrogen.

 

[liftsiron]

I've a habit of going on anti e's for long peroids of time. I've never noticed any estrogen "rebound" after stopping the anti e's greater than normal if I continue to use test. With arimidex I don't see any reason to run a cycle without it. I intend to use it in each and every cycle from now on, it keeps water retention at zero, which is a good indication that its working.

 

[Dr.X]

Bump for any more experiences(?) I'm not fully convinced there is not some kind of rebound effect; which happens with almost every drug. Cytadren used to decrease cortisol levels is another example.

 

[NFG123]

The difference with cytadren is at high dosages (500 mg + / day) it INHIBITS the desmolase E responsble for the production of corticoids. So when you come off it ... rebound. Anti-e do not inhibit the production of E.

NFG

 

[MaxBiceps]

I've wondered the same thing about clomid. Considering the body's negative feedback system, is there any guarantee that our body will produce the same amount of test once clomid is stopped?????

 

[South of the border]

This is an interesting tread.

I have not doubt that long term (non stop) use of drugs such as nolvadex will somewhat affect you body. How or how bad? I have no idea but I do believe that every drug has side effects and one should keep his drug intake (any drug) to a minimum (for the desired effect - whatever that may be) and for a (relatively) short period of time only.

 

[MaxBiceps]

bump...this could potentially be a good thread if someone more knowledgeable would intervene........

 

[NFG123]

bump

 

[RustyTromboneMan]

I would like to hear more on this subject as well

 

[Charles Ray]

Bump Me too

 

[SonnyBlack]

what happens if you take liquidex by itself (No AS) t help with natural estrogen levels??What happens after you come offf??estrogen rebound??how long is it safe to run it???

 

[SonnyBlack]

bump for some replies on this from knowledgable bros....

 

[VANIAN]

There won't be a rebound but a gradual increase over 1-2 weeks to what your estrogen would normally be.

 

[PBR]

Long term anti-e

Sonnyblack, I ran liquidex @ .25 for 6to 8 weeks with nothing else.
I felt great- stayed hard, semi pumped, strength stayed up etc.
I was doing so well, that I decided to do a little hcg along with it, BIG mistake- after 1500iu My test production stopped - no sex drive- no sex-back on clomid by itself, recovering slowly- you probably dont consider 6 to 8 weeks long ?

something I want to share, I have always been under the impression that you could increase you own natural test production - guess what- wrong - you can bring it back to base line ( normal range ) thats all. thats why I went to hcg- thinking I could get a bump in test after the liquidex

 

[SonnyBlack]

bump