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Sermorelin - the "new" HGH

splash said:
And it feels criminal that I can't easily get human growth hormone - somatropin - therapy in the US, and covered by insurance even to help rebuild my bones.

This premise that all medical things good and preventive should be mandated for insurance coverage is precisely what gives politicians their powers and keeps prices elevated.

Unless customers (patients) are parting with their own money (not ins. premium money) for routine and preventive medical products, they are shielded from the financial costs of their personal programs. Politicians prey on this patient-demand for protection with promises and legislation which lead to the market-distortions we are all witness to: special pleaders trying to get ever more "federal funds", panels to determine "need", formularies, decreased access and, paradoxically, increased cash-pricing.

Politicians love to grandstand so with the same powers that allow this market-tampering, we find Kangaroo-court "investigations" into steroids, pro-hormones, gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - and the rest.

Until we, as a nation, accept that insurance is for relatively unusual, critical or chronic disease/injury intervention and that routine "health care" is a commodity to be directly purchased by the consumer, the Hillarys, Bidens and faceless bureaucrats will be dictating our "health-care options.

-1crow
 
Amen, Brother! Preach it! I just wish that more people realize this. Insurance is for direct, interventional use, e.g., heart attack, diabetes, hypertension, but is not for preventive medicine (no matter how much they say they like preventive medicine). Since when do quality supplements get covered, even when we have direct published peer-reviewed studies that specific supplements can do good things for our health...they are still not covered.
Yet, frankly, what would be the cost-benefit ratio if more people were put on HGH-testosterone-BHRT regimens that kept their hormones at an optimal level of a 30 year old male/female? It would be expensive at the outset, but what about lowered hospitalizations, lowered use of meds for diabetes, hypertension, metabolic syndrome, etc? I think the cost-benefit ratio would be fabulous for the insurance and it would be a "win-win" situation. But now you have Congress involved...remember the famous saying that you run away from, "We're from the government...we are here to help."

Dr. Work
 
You know, I read this when it was first posted; just ran across it again and it really is wrong-headed. It's easy to direct someone else to put his license, career and, possibly, freedom on the line for an issue you care about. Where is your risk?

You, my friend, should take some Clomid, grow a set of balls and run for Congress. Or, get a law degree and dedicate yourself to protecting physicians and patients from these grandstanding congressmen and 'investigative' journalists looking to flog 'bad boy' drugs for their own aggrandizement. Failing that, you can go v. public with letters and speeches and start a physicians'/patients' rights advocacy group.

Now that you've got your own time, money and career on the line, you can challenge physicians all you wish.

-1crow

thefantom1 said:
Hey Doc... you should take some Clomid and grow a set of balls..... :) Don't cave in to what Congress thinks...they are idiots.. and not trained in medicine... you are. It is your job to make things right in the human body...what would happen if insulin became the next "bad boy" drug???? You going to prescribe sugar tablets?? NO... we need more Doctors to stand up and say enough is enough... Leave the Medicine business out of Congress...... You took the oath Doc.... now do the right thing and prescribe human growth hormone - somatropin - to those that need it.... Don't let your patients suffer because of some jackass Congressmen want to get re-elected.
 
wworkmd said:
The only real problem with the "Mexico route" is making sure that you get quality stuff and not counterfeit. Mexico isn't exactly the best place for quality pharmaceuticals. In addition, what do you do? Take a trip down to Mexico, get the human growth hormone - somatropin - , mix it up, slam it into your body and then go back to the good ole USA? Because if you bring it across the border and, again, don't have a legitimate prescription for it, you will not do well with Customs. If you declare it, some bonehead may let you through while the bright ones will confiscate it. If you don't declare it and they find it, then you are smuggling it across the border and I would rather not take anything than to be in a situation like that.

Again, what is the problem? Take Sermorelin (I am not selling it here...you have to be a patient of mine...so ask YOUR doc for it) and EVERYONE is happy...unless you like to juice up on supraphysiologic doses of HGH.

Dr. Work


Hey Doc,

Are there any docs like you in the Massachusett areas?
 
wworkmd said:
Excellent idea about if the hormone levels are low, then correct them. Testosterone is easy. Just test the total testosterone, the sex hormone binding globulin and the albumin, plug the values into the calculator and...voila! presto chango! you have the bioavailable testosterone and NOONE can dispute the value. Docs may disagree as to what is the actual level when replacement begins, but we would all agree WHAT the bioavailable testosterone value represents.

NOW, what about HGH? What value do you want to use? IGF-1? What level? Less than 100? Less than 200? What would be considered "Human Growth Hormone Deficiency Disorder"? Some would argue that the IGF-1 is worthless and that you need to do a "challenge" test to the pituitary to get the functioning of the anterior pituitary tested. But WHICH test? IV Arginine? Some experts say it is okay and others say it is not. ALL would agree that the insulin-hypoglycemic test is the "gold standard" but it requires hospitalization and it can actually be very dangerous to do...so the risks outweigh the benefits and no one wants to do the "gold standard" test. So, unlike testosterone (or thyroid or cortisol or estradiol or progesterone) testing, which is pretty cut and dried, the testing for HGH deficiency is ill-defined.

So what, you ask? If my doctor thinks I am low in HGH because of age, etc., and he/she thinks it is most beneficial that I get it, then he can prescribe it and all will be well with the world...and you would be WRONG. HGH is the ONLY medication on the US Pharmacopeia that cannot be written for "off label" and thus the diagnosis MUST be made of a deficiency (or you have AIDS wasting syndrome OR you are a pituitary dwarf OR you have complete pituitary failure, e.g., Sheehan's Syndrome) or the doc would be illegally prescribing it to you. Remember that YOU won't take the hit...the doc will. So those of you getting HGH from your doc and you aren't one of the cut and dried diagnoses, then eat, drink and be merry for sometime tomorrow you COULD be cut off of your HGH.

As to why the FEDS are involved...simple, Congress back in the 1970's classified HGH in the same category as steroids since it was being abused by bodybuilders (imagine that!) and athletes and docs did not have a real understanding of the importance of HGH replacement therapy at therapeutic levels (not the idiotic high doses of abusers). CONGRESS made docs jump through hoops for HGH. Thus the feds are involved.

Now for YEARS it was basically ignored/overlooked by the feds as long as it wasn't thrown in their faces or flaunted by yahoo doc trying to be a martyr and make a point. However, recently there have been a number of pharmacies being shut down and owners/pharmacists being indicted for distributing HGH to virtual docs who prescribe oodles of HGH without a good faith exam. I actually have worked with some of these pharmacies in the past for the small number of patients I had on HGH at the time. But they are now out of business and I now work with a compounding pharmacy in FL who does not sell/service virtual docs but only those who are "brick and mortar" docs, i.e., have offices that they actually see patients in (remember those kind?).

So as you know, fecal matter, like water, always wants to find its lowest poin and will thus roll down hill. So the Feds have started to notify state medical boards to start looking over and investigating docs who write for HGH. Remember that any scripts written by docs are monitored so they know when a doc is writing for it. The biggest question for the doc writing it is..."How big do I appear on the State Medical Board radar screen?" If they write for a lot of Rx of HGH then they are a big and juicy target but if they only have a few then it is unlikely to be a problem.

This is the reality of the situation and this is where "good" medicine and "legal" medicine part company. No amount of your justification of "well, my doc feels I need it so he is authorized to give it..." thinking will work unless you have had one of the verifiable tests. Now, if you are one of a FEW patients the doc has on HGH then he will probably not be bothered. However, if he is treating celebrities OR has a large number, then he will be spotted and he will get his pee pee whacked hard. Thus, Sermorelin is the obvious alternative that can be written for "off label" and maintains the negative feedback loop.

Hope this long-winded answer helps you understand the frustration that anti-aging docs go through everyday. I think I get more flak from my colleagues for starting people on adrenal replacement hormones vs HGH...but that's just me.

Dr. Work

Awesome post Doc. My doc has told me he wants me to try HRT, and I am trying to learn as much as I can about it. For me, my interest is in quality of life. We are all on the earth for such a short period of time that we ought not to take that time for granted. I liked learning about Sermorelin, even though, I may never be prescribed that. Most likely I'll be prescribed Androgel, and then if that isn't boosting my levels, injectible test, and occassionally HCG to keep the boys active. I'd love for you to chime in now and then when you can and give us a blog, or some comments here and there so all of us old guys who are thinking about going on HRT or who are already on it can become more informed.

Now all that aside. Is Sermorelin to be recommended as part of an HRT program along with Test? Can most docs prescribe it? Is it expensive? Do most carriers cover it?

I know that's a lot of questions....but I am new to HRT, and will be going into it soon.
Thanks.
 
I used Sermorelin for about 4 months and it helped me to lose about 15 lbs. I recently got off of it because of the muscle fatigue that it caused. I have noticed a significant change since stopping it, but may start again when winter starts to keep off the 5-10 lbs that I usually gain at that time. My personal experience is that it is not as strong as HGH, but the sides were not as bad either.
 
Welcom Doc!

Couple questions if you have the time:

What is a physiological replacement dose of hgh in IU?
Can use of hgh impact the HPTA or some other body system such as abuse of testosterone? (i.e. if you take hgh and don't need it will it affect your natural gh production?
Does sermorelin affect the hpta?
If someone is hypogonadotropic would they have low hgh levels?
 
The physiological replacement dose of somatropin is 1.5 units nightly for men and 1.8 units for women. To convert to milligrams, divide the unit dose by three, i.e., 0.5 mg for men and 0.6 mg for women.
Using somatropin, even at physiological doses, when you don't need it will suppress the biofeedback axis and is not recommended. As a general rule, your doctor could probably start you on somatropin at age 40. Any younger (without a pathologically low IGF-1) and the axis will be suppressed abnormally. Understand that even at 40 or 50, the axis gets suppressed but it wasn't pumping out much as it is so it is okay. The same thing happens with physiological replacement of testosterone in men who are hypogonadal. The axis is suppressed but who cares?
Sermorelin won't suppress the axis since it starts "above" the axis and works its magic that way. It is the analog of HGHRH so will cause depolarization of the pituitary cells that store HGH and cause its release. However, somatostatin can still be released by the body to cause a hyperpolarization and prevent the release of excess somatropin.
As to the last question, if your testosterone is low it does not necessarily follow that your somatropin levels are low. I have guys in their 20's that literally need normal physiological doses of testosterone but have healthy levels of IGF-1/IGFBP-3.

Dr. Work
 
Background –

I am planning to replacement my hGH supplementation with Semorelin. I have been off hGH for some time now and I have 6mg kits of Semorelin. I will be using 6cc of diluent. I was planning to inject each night, 5 days on and 2 off. How many cc should I use? This is a longevity/body composition regime for me. I also inject test cyp and hCG. My age is 53y and I have a 11% BF at 6f and 178lbs. I ran IGF1 lab earlier today and I will report back to this board my results from the Semorelin.

Please advise on the proper protocol. Thanks.
 
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