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seperation kit from A?
- Thread starter serge
- Start date
So give him acouple of days to answer you.
Your_Moms_Kneepads
New member
It works but apparently turns the prop into suspension (removes the ester).serge said:
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT try this. There is no way to remove all the estrogen.. Even if you removed 95% of it, that is more than enough to give you gyno..
DO NOT DO THIS.. Animal is not a chemist.. I guaren-fucking-tee he has not injected his preparation. If he did he'd be sporting a d-cup.
DO NOT DO THIS.. Animal is not a chemist.. I guaren-fucking-tee he has not injected his preparation. If he did he'd be sporting a d-cup.
S
STORM SHADOW
Guest
Andy13 said:
And your problem with D-Cups are?
serge
New member
i have background in organic chem, i have discused the issue of estrodiol seperation from test prop. technicly its imposible, but if you remove the esters from both estradiol and test prop, then you are left with a mixture of the two and they are both not soluble in water, then you can add a salt (Na ion) onto estradiol, and the addition of "Na" ion will make estradiol soluble in water while leaving test not soluble. after that all you do is mix both esradiol and test with water, run the mixter through a filter, estradiol will go through since its soluble in water, while test will not. and you have your pure testosterone waiting to be injected.
The Almighty
New member
STORM SHADOW said:
Shit, I like em!
serge said:
Estradiol dose not have an ester. And if you removed the ester from t-prop, you will have an ionized testosterone that will be washed out with the estrogen.
Adding a salt will not ionize estradiol.. It will have to be either NaOH (a base, not a salt) or sodium metal. BTW sodium metal is a "watched" chem by the DEA.
Andy
"Estradiol dose not have an ester. And if you removed the ester from t-prop, you will have an ionized testosterone that will be washed out with the estrogen."
Synovex H contains estradiol BENZOATE plus testosterone propionate. I agree that you will not remove all of the estradiol from the extraction, but I, and others, have used this product with no problem. I did not use A's kit, since I had the luxury of working in a lab, so I chose the ether extraction method.
My guess is A's kit contains a whopper dose of NaOH to saponify the esters, leaving free hormones. The estradiol would then form a sodium salt which is miscible in water, while the testosterone would remain insoluble and fall out of solution.
If you are very sensitive to estrogen, then you may want to reconsider, but there are many who have used this product with no problems (in fact I know some who have used the product straight with no separation, with no problems).
Synovex H contains estradiol BENZOATE plus testosterone propionate. I agree that you will not remove all of the estradiol from the extraction, but I, and others, have used this product with no problem. I did not use A's kit, since I had the luxury of working in a lab, so I chose the ether extraction method.
My guess is A's kit contains a whopper dose of NaOH to saponify the esters, leaving free hormones. The estradiol would then form a sodium salt which is miscible in water, while the testosterone would remain insoluble and fall out of solution.
If you are very sensitive to estrogen, then you may want to reconsider, but there are many who have used this product with no problems (in fact I know some who have used the product straight with no separation, with no problems).
Estradiol benzoate- I stand corrected.
But you do not need to hydrolize this ester in order to extract it. It has a free OH on the opposite end.
I sill don't understand, chemically, why one would need to hydrolize the ester on t-prop. This will free an OH on testosterone that will ionize as well.
Anyone want to explain the "ester removal" theory of extraction?
But you do not need to hydrolize this ester in order to extract it. It has a free OH on the opposite end.
I sill don't understand, chemically, why one would need to hydrolize the ester on t-prop. This will free an OH on testosterone that will ionize as well.
Anyone want to explain the "ester removal" theory of extraction?
mranderson
New member
Andy13 said:
hes right listen to the man!
What about using Proviron then
to keep from aromatizing? In the books I've read Proviron is sd. to stop anything from aromatizing where Nolvadex just puts it on hold and can have a back fire after disconitinued use. If Proviron does do this then it would be safe t use Synovex H with Proviron. I don't know, I'm jst throwing crap out there to see if you guys think it might work. Later!
to keep from aromatizing? In the books I've read Proviron is sd. to stop anything from aromatizing where Nolvadex just puts it on hold and can have a back fire after disconitinued use. If Proviron does do this then it would be safe t use Synovex H with Proviron. I don't know, I'm jst throwing crap out there to see if you guys think it might work. Later!
"Anyone want to explain the "ester removal" theory of extraction?"
It is simply a method that does not require diethyl ether, which is not readily available and very volatile. NaOH is more easily accessible and forgiving, unless you don't remove the NaOH and inject it into your ass cheek.
It is simply a method that does not require diethyl ether, which is not readily available and very volatile. NaOH is more easily accessible and forgiving, unless you don't remove the NaOH and inject it into your ass cheek.
"Ok.. then what is it that keeps testosterone's OH from ionizing and lets estrogen's OH become ionized?"
There are two OH groups on estradiol, at opposing ends of the structure, yet only one on testosterone. I am assuming that this makes the difference between their solubility in weak alkaline solutions.
This property is mentioned in the Merck Index, and I have had this discussion with Bill Roberts, who stated that he feels that the estradiol salt may not be truly dissolved, but in a micellar form. I also found this separation technique in an old organic chem text book.
There are two OH groups on estradiol, at opposing ends of the structure, yet only one on testosterone. I am assuming that this makes the difference between their solubility in weak alkaline solutions.
This property is mentioned in the Merck Index, and I have had this discussion with Bill Roberts, who stated that he feels that the estradiol salt may not be truly dissolved, but in a micellar form. I also found this separation technique in an old organic chem text book.
serge
New member
"Ok.. then what is it that keeps testosterone's OH from ionizing and lets estrogen's OH become ionized?"
Andy, ok here is the scoop. one you remover the esters, you are left with pure test and pure estradiol. estradiol will react with strong base like NaOH, to make the salt of estradiol which makes it soluble in water while keeping test as is (insoluble). Strong base reacts with estradiol and only partially with test (very small amounts), due to the reaction rates. the rate of the reaction with estradiol is much much faster then that of test. as a result estradiol reacts into a salt and test is mostly left as is.
When i did the conversion, i did 5 carts, so out of 10grams of test prop i ended up with 9g of pure test.
Andy, ok here is the scoop. one you remover the esters, you are left with pure test and pure estradiol. estradiol will react with strong base like NaOH, to make the salt of estradiol which makes it soluble in water while keeping test as is (insoluble). Strong base reacts with estradiol and only partially with test (very small amounts), due to the reaction rates. the rate of the reaction with estradiol is much much faster then that of test. as a result estradiol reacts into a salt and test is mostly left as is.
When i did the conversion, i did 5 carts, so out of 10grams of test prop i ended up with 9g of pure test.
There is no reason why estradiol's OH (a weak acid) and testosterone's OH (also a weak acid) will ionize any differently.
I strongly disagree here. Removing the esters first is not the way to go. I mean, in order to remove the esters, you will have to heat in NaOH solution. There's no way that t-prop's OH will not ionize, yet, somehow estrogens' OH will.
Andy
I strongly disagree here. Removing the esters first is not the way to go. I mean, in order to remove the esters, you will have to heat in NaOH solution. There's no way that t-prop's OH will not ionize, yet, somehow estrogens' OH will.
Andy
cockdezl said:
I read that article of Bill Roberts on t-mag. He's saying that someone washed the pellets with NaOH and got a low yield of testosterone. His guess was that the salts from estrogen pulled some of the test with it into the water layer as a micelle. That is possible, but not likely if a non-polar solvent is used to extract the water layer. If only NaOH solution is used, I can see how this can happen.. But if the water solution is thrown into a sep funnel and extracted with a few portions of toluene, it is likely that the majority of the test will be recovered in the non-polar layer.
Andy
"There is no reason why estradiol's OH (a weak acid) and testosterone's OH (also a weak acid) will ionize any differently.
I strongly disagree here. Removing the esters first is not the way to go. I mean, in order to remove the esters, you will have to heat in NaOH solution. There's no way that t-prop's OH will not ionize, yet, somehow estrogens' OH will. "
ANDY, I do not know this for sure (my chemistry is not up to date), but removing the benzoate ester will give 2 ionizable OH on estradiol, which will increase solubility. Testosterone only has 1 at the 17 beta position and a ketone group on the first ring.
I strongly disagree here. Removing the esters first is not the way to go. I mean, in order to remove the esters, you will have to heat in NaOH solution. There's no way that t-prop's OH will not ionize, yet, somehow estrogens' OH will. "
ANDY, I do not know this for sure (my chemistry is not up to date), but removing the benzoate ester will give 2 ionizable OH on estradiol, which will increase solubility. Testosterone only has 1 at the 17 beta position and a ketone group on the first ring.
