See a doctor or no? rotator cuff

[mrzap]

Last year I was doing flat dumbell presses for 5x5 and I went down too far on the negative. In the down position I felt I would give it everything and push it back up, but my left shoulder had a pain in it and im like whoa *drops weight*

From reading around the forums at that time I decided it was a strain on my rotator cuff. So I did cuff work and used machine bench that didn't illicit pain in my shoulder.

12 months later it started not to hurt anymore and now I was doing flat bench (barbell) this past Saturday and I was near lockout when I had a sharp pain in the same spot. Did another rep and it was still there and couldn't complete the set. I reinjured it.

It is not a constant pain. Only when I put my arm in that angle to carry or press something. Would a doctor be able to give me some magic pill or fix other than tell me to rest it? In other words will it be a waste of time to see a doctor for what I think may just be a sprain? I imagine a tear would have pain all the time? Do you see an orthopedist for something like this?

 

[anthrax]

Maybe ART ?

 

[eat big]

i imagine, like most doctors, theyll tell you to stay off it for a while, use bands, they work well for cuff work too, warm it up before you lift

 

[mrzap]

Should you do active recovery if it hurts to do the motions involved in the active recovery exercise? Even bands would hurt right now. Do you mean to just stay off it for awhile and then start AR? This happens every time my bench is about to be a personal best $%!!

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

is it a sharp pain or a dull pain now? you say it hurts at a certain angle, can you still move it through the full range of motion?

 

[eat big]

i dont know what kind of rotator cuff work your doing, might be the same but when i hurt my shoulder (rotator cuff ) it felt amazing with the bands and recovered in weeks. when i go to do military presses it still hurts a little, but not anymore on bench, just warm it up with bands, what i do for bands is put the band at abdomen height, put a towel under your elbow of your hurt shoulder, lodging it inbetween your body and elbow. next, you grab the band, put your elbow at a 90 degree angle, then just push away moving as little as possible, then do a 180 turn and PULL away from the band. try it if you understand it, it helps.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

before i try to figure out which muscle you strained, can you pull as much weight as you can push at the angle that you hurt your shoulder? rhomboids and middle traps can be a big factor in shoulder instability. you probably hurt your subscapularis, but if your shoulder blades weren't stabile then the rotators get stressed extra.

do you have any differences in flexibility, do you have uneven posture, can you touch your shoulder blades together?

doctors won't help you, they will charge you money and suggest surgery. it sounds like you just need to modify your routine once you heal up to stabilize.

 

[mrzap]

John, I can make arm circles without encountering any pain. I can lift my arms out from my sides and over my head without pain.

It hurts in these situations

1) if I raise my arm straight (like for side raises) out to about a 90 degree to my body and hold weight there statically

2) if I hyperextend backward into a negative end of a flat benchpress type of motion.

3) raise my arm out to the side, bend my arm so that the angle between my elbow and upper arm are at a 90 degree (an L shape) and do that rotator cuff exercise where you turn your forearm to a flat with the ground motion up to a vertical position while maintainin the 90 degree bend in your elbow. It hurts when my forearm is in the vertical phase.

4) and of course still where I first felt the pain. 75% of lockout on flat bench if I have weight on the bar.

My posture is fine. I can touch my shoulder blades together without pain. I would say when I do those 4 movements the pain is rather sharp although unless I am actually lifting weights it isn't eye watering pain. Its just like a sharp ow-maybe-i-shouldn't-be-doing-that pain.

I can do pullups and shrugs without any problems. I use a back machine that does bentover rows and that doesn't hurt except for slightly when locking into a position like #4 (and only slightly) and a little bit on almost full extension down.

Let me know what you think and thanks for your comments.

"eat big", thanks for the tip on AR.

 

[bignate73]

ok, now to be specific....where does it hurt?

im not being a smart ass, but "hurts in my shoulder" doesnt cut it. the shoulder is a big area. you may have trigger points all over or an injury. get specific with where your pain is and what motions cause it. dull or sharp etc.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

thats a good question bignate. i have been assuming the pain is directly underneath the front delt/pec junction. below the clavicle (i think thats the bone). from your description, subscapularis is the culprit. you hyperextended the muscle and you might have torn the tendon. the reinjury occured near lockout when the head of the humerous is trying to pop out of the glenoid cavity. the subscplrs keeps it in and got a force it couldnt deal with. PING!! tweaked muscle. if 4 to 6 weeks of rest and light rehab dont help the problem, you may have torn the muscle enough to warrent surgery.

your options now. you can baby it for a few weeks and hope for the best. you can go to a doc to get an mri and see what is up. i know i said forget the doctor, but finding out whats really wrong is where the machines they control come in.

this isnt something that you can let go. the shoulder is delicate and when injured, can end activity. i have dislocated both of my shoulders and HAD to learn what to do, what not to do, and how to listed to my shoulders. lots of rehab, lots of studying, lots of time that i couldnt do gymnastics or breakdance, or ride my bikes..... you get the idea.

 

[mrzap]

I would say the pain is in the middle of my front shoulder muscle. I can find the spot if I move my fingers down maybe 2.5 inches from the junction of my collarbone on my front shoulder muscle.

It feels to be in the area of where these arrows are pointing so I think you may be dead on here
http://www.coventrypainclinic.org.uk/images/shoulder-subscapularis.JPG

This trigger points diagram seems to show the pain region on the back side though? I only feel it on the front. Am I just reading this wrong?
http://www.coventrypainclinic.org.uk/images/muscle-subscapularis.JPG

I notice when I do this exercise at the gym http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/Subscapularis/CBInternalRotation.gif it burns in that area like a mother (high reps), but its a good burn and that area tends to feel temporarily better (hard to explain)

Another symptom I think may be worth mentioning is that when I first hurt it last year I found that if I grab my hands behind my back and pull back and up I could here a pop in that shoulder like it wasn't in there right?? I can still do this now although its not as pronounced of a pop.

I think I should see a doctor, im a mess

 

[eat big]

yeah that exercise is what im talking about, it helped me, if it doesnt help you then im out of ideas, it does seem like its your rotator cuff, instead of going to a doctor whose goign to tell you to just not lift bc ive heard it before, go to a physical therepist maybe ? they can tell you what to do better than a doctor just an idea

eat big

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

the pop maybe a tendon sliding over the head of the humerous. or, you could have torn the cartilage that makes the glenoid cavity- but thats usually with dislocation, not straining.
the diagrams you are showing are right. its a view from the front looking through the ribcage at the inside of the scapula. look at the pic of the guy with his arm raised. there is a tiny X in his armpit. thats where it connects. the other spots are hard as shit to get to because you have to lift the shoulder blade off the back first, and that requires getting the shoulder, traps, chest, and smaller muscles to relax all at the same time

 

[bignate73]

if you are feeling the pain in the front, you need to look at infraspinatus trigger point diagrams, i think you'll be surprised.