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scientific explaination?
- Thread starter pudding
- Start date
It depends on the particular AAS, and not whether it is injectible or oral.
The route of administration is absolutely irrelevant.
Some injectibles cause significant bloat, while some orals don't cause much bloat.
The major difference between orals and injectibles is that orals are more likely to cause liver damage because of the first pass effect.
The route of administration is absolutely irrelevant.
Some injectibles cause significant bloat, while some orals don't cause much bloat.
The major difference between orals and injectibles is that orals are more likely to cause liver damage because of the first pass effect.
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UA_Iron
Guest
the duration of injectable cycles is significantly longer than oral ones too.
bicepts101
New member
jdynasty said:
you liver basically filters your blood so everything goes through your liver
stuck
New member
This may explain it better:
When drugs are administered orally, absorption is much more complex than when administered intravenously. The drug has to bypass a number of barriers before it can get into the blood stream and do its thing. First, it must get past the acid in the stomach. Second, it must over come bacteria in the small intestines. Third, it must survive changes in the small intestines. Finally, it must survive the metabolism process in the liver known as the first pass effect.
During the first pass effect, blood travels to the liver as part of a filtering system where enzymes in the liver metabolize or change part of a drug before it enters the bloodstream. Enzymes are proteins that change drugs in the body and also help biochemical reactions occur as discussed above.
Drugs are absorbed faster when administered intravenously. They enter the blood stream immediately, and aren't absorbed like when taken orally. They bypass being metabolized by the liver, skipping the first pass effect.
When drugs are administered orally, absorption is much more complex than when administered intravenously. The drug has to bypass a number of barriers before it can get into the blood stream and do its thing. First, it must get past the acid in the stomach. Second, it must over come bacteria in the small intestines. Third, it must survive changes in the small intestines. Finally, it must survive the metabolism process in the liver known as the first pass effect.
During the first pass effect, blood travels to the liver as part of a filtering system where enzymes in the liver metabolize or change part of a drug before it enters the bloodstream. Enzymes are proteins that change drugs in the body and also help biochemical reactions occur as discussed above.
Drugs are absorbed faster when administered intravenously. They enter the blood stream immediately, and aren't absorbed like when taken orally. They bypass being metabolized by the liver, skipping the first pass effect.
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roidpuple
Guest
But once you have made the gain... from the steroid.. this would be after the process of liver and all... now you have the gain...
now why would you keep more of the gain from the injectable..
than you would from the oral..???
I think this is the question...
not why are injecables more effective..
now why would you keep more of the gain from the injectable..
than you would from the oral..???
I think this is the question...
not why are injecables more effective..
terrapin
New member
pudding said:
I think you need to be more specific. I would think that if you did a winny only cycle and gained, say 8lbs, you would keep just about all of those gains as long as you kept up your training and eating. Now, if you did a cycle of sust and gained, say 15lbs, you would probably keep less of those gains b/c of water retention - so say you keep 12lbs. Whats the difference? Both gains are keepable. As a matter of fact, I thought most people would say that Winny and Var have some of the best keepable gains. So, I think its a compound by compound comparison.
This would have nothing to do with the drugs metabolism, but the TYPE of gain you got from the drug (ie: muscle -v- water retention). If you could be more specific, like why are Primo gains more keepable than Dbol - than you could get some specific answers.
I don't think the gains are more keepable due to oral vs. injection administration. What varies is the compounds used and for the most part orals we deal with are high andros like dbol and anadrol. These tend to keep a lower percentage of net gains b/c there is a good deal of water weight which can't be kept. However, the gains keeping is similar to test suspension or other extreme andro injectables. Then you have an oral like anavar which keeps very well. Basically, once you've gained the 10lbs. either from an oral or injectable, what you keep comes down to how much of your gains are water weight (which will be lost) and how supressed you natural test. production (which you can affect with pct). These factors are not dependent in any major way on oral vs. injectable but are instead functions of the compound used. It may seem like injectables keep better, but this IMO is more a function of the compounds we most associate with orals and injectables, not the method of administration.
blut wump
New member
A few orbs have claimed to be able to keep a lot of their dbol gains, not the water of course. I think dbol use is primarily to kickstart a cycle into action and then stop the dbol as the injectable finally fully kicks in after four weeks or so. I don't think there are many experienced guys running dbol-only cycles without some good and specific reason.
pudding said:
The gains aren't lost. The mistake alot of poeple make when they condemn dbol is that they look at things like this: I gained a total of 30lbs from dbol and lost 12lbs post cycle. Well, what you lost was probably 12lbs of water which made many of your gains possible, but you wouldn't keep with any drug. You still gained 18lbs of lean muscle which you keep and this is still better then the solid 10lbs other "good gains keepers" will get you. With good pct you will still comeout ahead with dbol. It gets a bad rap for what I mentioned above and b/c it seems to attract the one time idiots who don't want to inject and get in the gym for the first time poopping them. They lose interest and stop the dbol with no taper no pct and don't eat well or contin ue to train post cycle. Then they lose it all. This is not dbol's fault. When used in the proper way dbol is a very effective muscle builder. Hell, I cut with it.
shamrock11
New member
Most orl drugs go through what is called a first pass metabolism. In this process from 20 to 80% of a particular drug is metabolized by the liver and immedatly excreted through the kidneys and never makes it to the blood stream. Whereas injectable do not go through this process. This is the biggest difference.
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roidpuple
Guest
Well looks like they finally got to the question ha ha....
some good answers.. ( but that is what i thought .. injectables dont really give you better keepable gains compared to oral.... it is just different compounds not oral vs inject..
some good answers.. ( but that is what i thought .. injectables dont really give you better keepable gains compared to oral.... it is just different compounds not oral vs inject..
csobel
New member
This question has more to do with the esterification of the steroid in question, not so much the alpha alkylation. Different esters can be attached to steroids suspended in oil, which alter the rate of decay of the steroid in the muscle tissue. I.E. enanthate is generally an 11-day half life, whereas acetate is only a few days. Anything 17a-a breaks down in a matter of hours. It is this propensity to hang around in the body for long periods of time that makes the gains more "keepable" with longer acting esters. Think about it--testosterone, primabolan, and equipose are all known for steady, reliable gains. Well, both testosterone and primabolan come in forms where the attached ester can be enanthate, and equipose and an undecanote ester, all of which stick around for a long time.
-C
-C
pudding
New member
This seems to be a difficult question to get answered. The majority says the pin the way to go for long staying gains, but little factual info to back it. I'm not trying to start any type of debate, but I have reading a lot and I can't find any scientific reasons for the conclusion most people have.roidpuple said:
Bro, you have been confused to the limit.
There are two things to medicines:
1. Pharmacokinetic effects.
2. Pharmacodynamic effects.
Pharmacokinetics ('kinetics') relates to the 'movement' of the drugs. Like route of administration. How often you take it. Orals have to pass through the liver first. Everything from the intestine directly goes to the liver and passes through liver through portal circulation. As a result, orals are more likely to cause liver damage. Nothing to do with gains.
Intramusculars directly go to muscle, without first passing through liver. They are less likely to cause liver damage as a result.
Rest depends on individual effects (or phamacodynamics) of anabolicm agents.
You have to do your own research. There are several sites for information on Anabolics. Also check Anabiolics 2004.
Otherwise you would be wandering like a blind.
There are two things to medicines:
1. Pharmacokinetic effects.
2. Pharmacodynamic effects.
Pharmacokinetics ('kinetics') relates to the 'movement' of the drugs. Like route of administration. How often you take it. Orals have to pass through the liver first. Everything from the intestine directly goes to the liver and passes through liver through portal circulation. As a result, orals are more likely to cause liver damage. Nothing to do with gains.
Intramusculars directly go to muscle, without first passing through liver. They are less likely to cause liver damage as a result.
Rest depends on individual effects (or phamacodynamics) of anabolicm agents.
You have to do your own research. There are several sites for information on Anabolics. Also check Anabiolics 2004.
Otherwise you would be wandering like a blind.
Bigdogmikey
New member
because their different drugs, testosterone cannont be made into tabs efficently, you'll have to take alot and it'll hurt ur stomach......not cost effective, just depends on the drug...u keep most of anavar and primo tabs
stuck
New member
DIVISION said:^^^^Now that's GanGsTa.....
DIV
Yeah I was trying to show the first pass effect, even if apparently it didn't answer the original question. It was cut/pasted from a medical site. The intended effort was to focus on the liver, not for him to take one word in one sentence at the end out of context.
For everyone else reading this, please do not mainline your gear. Thank you.
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