Reverse Hypers fo buldged disc?

[donny43]

I have been diagnosed with a s1/l5 buldge.
Question: Are Reverse HYpers good or bad for rehab?
Anybody actually had any experiences with buldged discs and Reverse Hypers?
My Chiro has never heard of such an excersise.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

I've spoken to Louie Simmons myself regarding the exercise. He invented it and the machine sold to do it. He's a good guy, a bit shifty towards olylifting (aw well), but good none the less. He recommends it highly, and he claims it to have helped a lot of his trainees and himself. I honestly think his AAS usage had something to do with the swift recovery - tissue heals better when juicing.

Either way, the exercise likely works. I have three bulging discs: L3/L4, L4/L5 and L5/S1. Is your bulge postal or lateral?

Also, do you get any leg pains or anything like that? You know, basic signs of sciatica?

Core endurance is most important for back problems like this, not strength. Strength comes later - don't make this mistake.

 

[donny43]

I have right lateral bulge. I get no sciatica or shooting ain symptoms.
I get a dull low ache in my back when i do certain movements.

"Core endurance is most important for back problems like this, not strength. Strength comes later - don't make this mistake."

Do you mean by the above comment do light reverse hypers with high reps the first couple of months to concentrate on your core strength and then hit the reverse hyper hard after a bit of repair?

What about abs?
The chiro says that ab work ie trunk flexion is bad for such an injury.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Dynamic ab work is bad for the injury, yes. Static work, no. This is what I meant by endurance. Do planks and side bridges. Birddog exercises work well, too. Cat/camels are good to do before any exercise to reduce, er what was it, spinal viscocity? I forget - I have to check my books.

If you don't have a reverse hyper machine, you're gonna have a hell of a time doing reverse hypers. Hyper extensions aren't good for the injury either, so stay away from that.

Maybe do some glute bridges, cobra pushups and planks for right now. That should get you started. If you need descriptions, just ask. Look around on Google though, I bet you can find 'em there.

 

[donny43]

I have made my own reverse hyper with the help of my local hardware store.
It works well....I think.
Are russian twists considered a good rehab excersise along with the one you mentioned in the previous post.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Bahhhhhhhhhhh no way. Stay away from torsion stuff. Especially testicular torsion. That's some bad stuff.

No, no. Really though. Russian Twists are bad for your situation. You can incorporate stuff like that later, but wait until you get set with the endurance stuff.

Reverse Hypers work well - do them with some of the exercises I mentioned. Try them with glute bridges and planks.

 

[bignate73]

you need to figure out if it is bulging anterior lateral or posterior. this will make all the difference as to what is not allowed.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

you need to figure out if it is bulging anterior lateral or posterior. this will make all the difference as to what is not allowed.

Well he said it's lateral. I also doubt it's an anterior bulge - that's pretty rare, if possible at all - I see tons of posterior bulges. 'sides, the doc told him no flexion work which means it's a posterior bulge, unless the doctor's an idiot which is entirely possible considering the world we live in. Still, I doubt it - probably a posterior bulge. And flexion work means anterior compressive forces which will shift the disc further posteriorly and in the worst case, into a nerve.

 

[Illuminati]

I have been diagnosed with a s1/l5 buldge.
Question: Are Reverse HYpers good or bad for rehab?
Anybody actually had any experiences with buldged discs and Reverse Hypers?
My Chiro has never heard of such an excersise.

when did you slip your disk? i would highly advise taking some time off from the gym and letting it heal. i tried to push mine at first (same location as yours) and it only made matters worse. go to physical therapy, get traction done, or get an injection, wait some time, let it heal a bit, and then go from there

 

[donny43]

I did it around 7 weeks ago.
At the moment I am only doing bench press, pull ups, shoulder press and glute ham raise and will throw in some planks and bridges.
I have also taken this time "injury time" to loose some excess weight losing just on 6 KG so far.
I have done this by bike, skipping and step ups.
None of the excersises above hurt my back when performed.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Body needs excess resources to heal - I wouldn't cut now.

Also, shoulder press is bad now. Overhead stuff is bad when you have a back injury. Avoid it. Also, don't arch with benching with a back injury. That's also bad. You're gonna be limited for some time.

 

[b fold the truth]

I would hammer away with high reps on the reverse hyper and any full ROM ab movement. I'd see a Chrio once a week and a massage therapist too. Any pain like that can pull all kinds of things out of whack. Stretch the hamstrings a few times a day and keep some warm type cream on it.

 

[donny43]

Tonight I did 3x15 reverse hypers as well as bench press, close grip bench and chins.
I did the reverse hypers tonight and after I fnished the 3 sets this is the first time in 7 weeks that my back felt normal. Even when I put my back on certain angles that 15 miutes prior would've given me considerable pain the pain was reduced by up to %80-%90 with all the extra blood flow and completely gone on some other movements. This relief lasted for about 30 mins.
2 hours later the pain has returned to its normal state.
I am going to do 3x15 reverse hypers as wellas abs every 2nd night.
Am I right in thinking if I get considerable pain relief with this movement it is a good thing and will hasten my rehab?

 

[b fold the truth]

I've hurt my lower back before and I did reverse hypers for 2-3 sets with no weight 2-3 x a day for a couple of weeks till the pain subsided.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

B - did you have a bulging disc or get an MRI to confirm your situation? I wouldn't be recommending full range ab work (i.e., flexion exercises) for someone with a posterior disc bulge. It's really not safe, as the anterior compressive force on the disc pushes it further out. That's not at all what he wants. I know you know your stuff man, but it's a very delicate situation - disc bulges can only get worse if you're not careful.

 

[Protobuilder]

How about a major buldge in the pants? Should you work out like that or take some time off?

But seriously folks . . .

How'd you hurt your back, if you don't mind me asking.

FYI -- Zatsiorsky talks about diff't stresses on the lumbars using diff't ab exercises. Lowest, I think, was feet elevated crunches (calves resting on bench). Full ROM situps were toughest on the ol' back. Hanging stuff was good too.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

How about a major buldge in the pants? Should you work out like that or take some time off?

But seriously folks . . .

How'd you hurt your back, if you don't mind me asking.

FYI -- Zatsiorsky talks about diff't stresses on the lumbars using diff't ab exercises. Lowest, I think, was feet elevated crunches (calves resting on bench). Full ROM situps were toughest on the ol' back. Hanging stuff was good too.

Zatsiorsky has nothing on McGill. Curlups are where it's at - work the rectus, take out the back element. Full range situps just put undue stress on the back. They don't do much else.

 

[Protobuilder]

Curlups?

Something else I remembered (don't know if they're good for back though) are "hollow rocks."

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Curlups?

Something else I remembered (don't know if they're good for back though) are "hollow rocks."

Care to describe them?

 

[b fold the truth]

B - did you have a bulging disc or get an MRI to confirm your situation? I wouldn't be recommending full range ab work (i.e., flexion exercises) for someone with a posterior disc bulge. It's really not safe, as the anterior compressive force on the disc pushes it further out. That's not at all what he wants. I know you know your stuff man, but it's a very delicate situation - disc bulges can only get worse if you're not careful.

I'm not big on doctors...lol. I hurt my back pretty bad a few years ago and was at the point where I couldn't stand for anyone to touch the area and I slept, feet elevated, on the floor for 2 months. About the only thing that gave it relief was the reverse hypers. That would help everything to feel better and then I'd train my abs in any way that I could...with the least pain.

With any injury...you should train to get stronger in all ways around that injury as best as you can with as little pain as possible. If he totally rests his core while letting the injury "heal" then what happens when he gets back to training and has a really weak core again? I am guessing that his risk for injury will be even higher.

A LOT of things are seen as being a lot more dangerous than they REALLY are. I've been hurt and competed. When I tore my left hamstring the doctors told me that I'd be ready to train again in 8 weeks. In 8 weeks I was in Boston doing the heaviest contest of the year. I was still very sore and injured but doing all that I can. ALL of my rehab was working to strengthen everything around that injury (all things working with and opposing that hamstring) so that the moment it was even 20%...I could get right back to work.

I hope that makes some sense...I don't suggest doing anything that is TOO uncomfortable and I'm not too ashamed to admit that I've cried when I got hurt, and cried even harder during rehab.

 

[Protobuilder]

Care to describe them?

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/arch_rock.wmv

They look dumb but work very well, IMO.

Care to describe curlups?

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

I'm not big on doctors...lol. I hurt my back pretty bad a few years ago and was at the point where I couldn't stand for anyone to touch the area and I slept, feet elevated, on the floor for 2 months. About the only thing that gave it relief was the reverse hypers. That would help everything to feel better and then I'd train my abs in any way that I could...with the least pain.

With any injury...you should train to get stronger in all ways around that injury as best as you can with as little pain as possible. If he totally rests his core while letting the injury "heal" then what happens when he gets back to training and has a really weak core again? I am guessing that his risk for injury will be even higher.

A LOT of things are seen as being a lot more dangerous than they REALLY are. I've been hurt and competed. When I tore my left hamstring the doctors told me that I'd be ready to train again in 8 weeks. In 8 weeks I was in Boston doing the heaviest contest of the year. I was still very sore and injured but doing all that I can. ALL of my rehab was working to strengthen everything around that injury (all things working with and opposing that hamstring) so that the moment it was even 20%...I could get right back to work.

I hope that makes some sense...I don't suggest doing anything that is TOO uncomfortable and I'm not too ashamed to admit that I've cried when I got hurt, and cried even harder during rehab.

Ah, I gotcha. I also don't advocate a weak core, though.

Firstly, he should focus on core endurance for now, then work towards strength. Secondly, there are other methods to getting a strong core without full ROM situps - half of that movement tends to stress the lower back and hip flexors anyway, so it's useless. I think we agree for the most part, though.

I built me a reverse hyper and I have to say, it works wonderful. I love how it feels on my back. How much weight did you work up to on that thing, B?

Cried with rehab, huh? I'm going for my first ART session soon enough. I don't need it necessarily, but it's free, and I want to use it as a preventative method for my RC - flat benching heavy can wear the AC joint over time.

 

[b fold the truth]

Ah, I gotcha. I also don't advocate a weak core, though.

Firstly, he should focus on core endurance for now, then work towards strength. Secondly, there are other methods to getting a strong core without full ROM situps - half of that movement tends to stress the lower back and hip flexors anyway, so it's useless. I think we agree for the most part, though.

I built me a reverse hyper and I have to say, it works wonderful. I love how it feels on my back. How much weight did you work up to on that thing, B?

Cried with rehab, huh? I'm going for my first ART session soon enough. I don't need it necessarily, but it's free, and I want to use it as a preventative method for my RC - flat benching heavy can wear the AC joint over time.

Focus on whatever you can. When I hurt my shoulders years ago...I didn't go over the empty EZ curl bar or the 2.5 lb dbells for a few months on anything...but did sets of 100+.

If you want STRONG abs and core...you need full ROM sit ups. You squat, deadlift, and OHP in a similar style. If they bother your lower back...then you need a stronger lower back. Hip flexors are VERY important to an athlete or anyone who wants to squat or deadlift big.

My reverse hyper is a 2" x 10" piece of wood laid across my power rack. I will sometimes anchor a mini band (or other bands) to the front of my rack and around my ankles for weight. Best I can do for right now...lol.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

For $300 I was able to build one. Not bad, just need to know how to weld and such.

Deadlifts and squats will build the hip flexors on their own, which is why I don't see the need for hip flexors being trained with ab exercises. Either way, if it works it works.

 

[b fold the truth]

For $300 I was able to build one. Not bad, just need to know how to weld and such.

Deadlifts and squats will build the hip flexors on their own, which is why I don't see the need for hip flexors being trained with ab exercises. Either way, if it works it works.

There are A LOT of BIG squatters and deadlifters who disagree with you. No muscle is ever strong enough by just doing the main exercise. Another note, a buddy of mine tore his hip flexor not too long ago while doing squats. Had it been stronger (not that other factors could have been at hand).

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

There are A LOT of BIG squatters and deadlifters who disagree with you. No muscle is ever strong enough by just doing the main exercise. Another note, a buddy of mine tore his hip flexor not too long ago while doing squats. Had it been stronger (not that other factors could have been at hand).

Right, had it been stronger it could have prevented injury. At the same time, you've gotta ask "How much more would it help you prevent injury?". I agree that a muscle might need strengthening outside of the major movement at times, but if you don't have dynamic ab strength (i.e., primarily do jack knives [planks statically held while on a swiss ball]) you'll still likely be okay, 'cause if you slip form on a squat or deadlift (i.e., rounding your back) you're likely gonna feel pain anyway. They're very unforgiving exercises.

Then again, I'm not looking to squat and deadlift BIG - just 2x my bodyweight for the squat and I'm done. I've hit it before, now I just have to work back up to it. I never did anything but squats in the past (toyed with box squats but sucked at 'em), so I think I'll be okay without all that other work.

 

[chainsaw1]

Bumping this thread from way back, anybody know if "Antrax Invasion" still exists on this forum. He has the same bulging disc I have, L3, L4, L5. Was wondering if he had gotten over it?