results from the 5x5

[maldorf]

I did my first 5x5 about 3 months ago or so, it was a dual factor. My strength gains were good, but I only put on about 2 pounds of bodyweight. My bodyfat % stayed about the same. Madcow talked like it should pack on some serious mass, but I just didnt see that. I did gain some good strength.
I usually follow a typical bodybuilder workout, and when I went back to that after the 5x5 my appearance and bodyweight immediately improved. I got leaner and actually put on a few more pounds.
Im trying to figure out how to explain what happened. I am thinking the strength gains were obviously more due to improved nervous system function and coordination, since my bodyweight barely went up at all. The bodybuilding routine seems to be better for hypertrophy, maybe its the range of the reps being higher. Anyone have opinions on this observation?
My plan is to incorporate the 5x5 about every 4 months or so, and then go back to traditional bodybuilding routine. So far the strength I put on with the 5x5 seems to be mostly sticking, but I think I might have lost a little. My size has been going way up now though since I finished the 5x5, its been about 6 weeks now.

 

[Cynical Simian]

Whether you gain or lose weight is a matter of caloric balance. madcow ended his moratorium on writing about diet and posted an article on his site so he wouldn't have to deal with posts like the one you just made. Perhaps you should read it.

 

[Protobuilder]

My strength gains were good, but I only put on about 2 pounds of bodyweight. My bodyfat % stayed about the same.

Where's the confusion? Two pounds bodyweight, BF stayed the same = you gained 2 pounds of muscle over, what, 8-9 weeks? That's about a pound a month, give or take. If you'd eaten more, you would've gained more. Some probably would've been fat, some would've been muscle, but that depends on your biology, not really the program.

I usually follow a typical bodybuilder workout, and when I went back to that after the 5x5 my appearance and bodyweight immediately improved. I got leaner and actually put on a few more pounds.

Wow! How many people do you know who have this kind of progress? Sounds like w/e you're doing is working.

Your experience is not unusual. Many alternate between strength and hypertrophy routines, with good results.

 

[anotherbutters]

From madcow's description:

People have had a lot of success using something like this while cutting. I have seen a number of reports of people keeping bodyweight constant, losing body fat, and increasing in most relevant measurements (chest, thigh, arms) so that says something. If you are close to a weight class limit you’ll need to be very careful. All that said, this program will make you strong but if you want to put on muscle there absolutely must be caloric excess. Read my piece on caloric excess if you haven’t already, more people screw this up than anything else.

I think the bit in bold is confusing, although it's immediately followed by the blatantly obvious - you need to eat more food in order to put on more weight.

 

[maldorf]

From madcow's description:

I think the bit in bold is confusing, although it's immediately followed by the blatantly obvious - you need to eat more food in order to put on more weight.

Yeah, the eating more is obvious. I did increase calories during the 5x5 but if anything it might have gone to bodyfat, my physical appearance actual decreased. I did not look as fit during the 5x5. As soon as I started the other routine, i did not incease calories mind you, my bodyfat at first dropped while bodyweight remained the same. I then was able to increase calories to put on more muscle mass, it was apparent if I had done that during the 5x5 most of it would have been added as bodyfat. Its really all probably a matter of the sheer volume of work done. Hunger increased much during the bodybuilding style workout.

 

[ErikZ]

I never never added a huge caloric surplus, since I cannot afford looking fat (yeah, ego sux etc).

Anyways, I have gain, in around 8 weeks of 5x5 training some solid 3lbs of muscle, discounting the 1lb I gained of fat.
I have become solid.
5x5 is great, cannot train wimpy curls anymore

 

[anotherbutters]

Well if you found the 5x5 good for strength gains and the bodybuilding routine good for hypertrophy, especially when you did them back to back, then that's good. madcow often said the 5x5 wasn't something you'd run continuously. It's one of a number of ways of training that you put together within your overall training plan.

What does the bodybuilding routine look like by the way? And can you give us some stats - age, height, squat weight? How much weight did you put on during the 5x5?

 

[maldorf]

Well if you found the 5x5 good for strength gains and the bodybuilding routine good for hypertrophy, especially when you did them back to back, then that's good. madcow often said the 5x5 wasn't something you'd run continuously. It's one of a number of ways of training that you put together within your overall training plan.

What does the bodybuilding routine look like by the way? And can you give us some stats - age, height, squat weight? How much weight did you put on during the 5x5?

Yeah, rotating the 2 types of routines has always been what I plan on. I used to follow a powerlifting cycle written up by Dr. Fred Hatfield, but found myself overtraining on it. The 5x5 was great, I never really felt like I was going to be overtrained, with maybe the exception of the last week of the volume phase. I am just curious from a scientific standpoint as to why one doesnt get as much hypertrophy from the lower reps and lower volume. I think one factor that is always mentioned is the type of fibers you are training. Ideally it would be awesome to find a 5x5 routine that would add strength and lots of hypertrophy at the same time.
Ive been lifting for over 20 years and I managed to get up 525 for 3x3 on the squat during the last week of madcows dual factor progream. I did make a post on here while I was doing it, should turn up on a search. Im not plat. I am 6 foot tall and weighed in at about 243 after the 5x5 and am now about 248 lbs.

 

[ErikZ]

I get good strength and hypertrophy from training a custom, tailored powerlifting scheme (which I change every 8 weeks) coupled with accessories in order to promote hypertrophy (i.e. curls, etc).
Look into these =P

 

[maldorf]

I get good strength and hypertrophy from training a custom, tailored powerlifting scheme (which I change every 8 weeks) coupled with accessories in order to promote hypertrophy (i.e. curls, etc).
Look into these =P

yeah, I fooled around with that in the past, but too often found myself overtraining. Always a matter of readjusting workouts as you go along. When I was really young and first started lifting I would try to tough it out and stick to the routine, boy is that foolish!

 

[36drew]

I've tried just about every routine out there, and once you have the basics down (progressive overload, periodization, etc), its all a matter of diet, diet, diet.

I train with powerlifters who eat very clean and do cardio yearround, and let me tell you... you wouldn't think that were powerlifters.

Powerlifters and bodybuilders have much more in common than they do different.

HST is something you might want to look at.