regarding 5x5 weight progression

[revexrevex]

Specifically to needsize. A little about me... I am 190 lbs, 12% bodyfat, training for 2 years (natural).

The question i have is this: Should I start out lighter than my 5 rep max, and slowly build up until I cannot accomplish all 5x5, and then stay on it until I am able to complete 5x5 fully?

For example, I been doing Incline Press for 3 weeks already.. no progress during the last 3 workouts. It went like this: 1st set: 185x5, 2nd set: 185x4, 3rd set: 185 x 3, 4th set: 185 x 2, 5th set 185x1. Should I lower the weight to lets say 175 lbs so that I am able to complete all 5x5, and then slowly add 5 lbs every week? I have noticed that if i start out lighter, and slowly build up to my previous max, I can go past it?

I've been puzzled by no progress, you said that its possible to add 5 lbs every week! (i usually increase my bench 5 lbs every 2 months!). Therefore I think you meant that I should start out light and slowly build up by adding 5 lbs every week.

 

[needsize]

Definitely drop the weight. I'd drop it even further, ie 155-165, and concentrate on proper form, full range etc. The first couple of weeks you should be able to complete your reps pretty easy and add weight for the next workout. By the time you get back to your old working weight, it should be easier than it was and you should be able to keep adding weight, at least, it works that way for me. You can also try starting something like creatine around the time you get to your old working weight, to help ensure that you can keep going past your old plateau. Following this approach has always worked for me, this past year I started to add steroids to the mix, and the results were incredible.

 

[revexrevex]

Thanks needsize.. i enormously appreciate this advice.

I was doing HST routine ( 2 sets of maximum effort for whole body 4 times a week ) and got addicted to using maximal weights when I am fresh (no fatigue). With 5x5 it becomes harder, because not only do you get weaker toward later sets, but the supplementary exercises (for me its dumbell press and machine press) are pathetic because of the fatigue. I can do 95x5 flat dumbell press, but with your routine barely rep out 70 x 10 after the main exercise.

 

[revexrevex]

Obviously this program is a big ego crusher. I been crawling up the weight ladder, fighting for every additional pound of weight on squats, deadlifts and presses. Numerously I dropped the weight to perfect the form, and started the progression cycle all over. I guess I will have to do it again, I understand that I wont get stronger every workout and this droppage in weight is for the greater good in the future.

By the way, this is an incredible program. It balances out the frequency and volume perfectly for me.

On a personal note, throughout your bodybuilding years, were you similar to me? I.e. the progress came in small bursts every couple of months? I built up to 230 lb bench, 245 x 5 squat, and 365 x 1 sumo deadlift at 5'11 and 190 lbs and 20 years old. Obviously weak, but for only a year of serious training and immense time reading research and articles I think i made good progress. I know bodybuilding is a journey.. it takes years to get to reach the genetic potential.. guess I am too impatient

 

[needsize]

Yup, my progress did comes in bursts and small amounts. But one thing I did notice is that most of it as an advanced lifter, did seem to come from this program, or a variation of it I even went through a period of a few years where I think I beat this program to death, and I didn't make any gains.

It really is a journey that you have to be patient with. I started at 5'9" and 145lbs when I started training, pretty damn small. A few pounds here, a few pounds there, and I was 228lbs a few weeks ago, and most of my gains did come before I ever went near steroids (which I only started 9 months ago)

The program may be tough on your ego at first, but once it starts to work for you it will be the opposite. And feel free to play with it at any time, ie, if your having trouble adding weight on your 2nd exercise, screw 8-10 reps, go for a few sets of 6 for a while, you will be able to add weight, and when you go back to where you where struggling with 8-10 reps before, it'll be a joke

 

[Doktor Bollix]

A big factor for me in the weight I need for 5X5 is the time between sets. I did 5x5 each of weighted dips and pullups on Monday, alternating exercises with no rest, and I am so sore today.

Anyway it's important to time the intervals and take the same amount of time between each set. I found once that the interval I was taking was staggered so I took more and more time after each set, and I actually couldn't manage the weight for 5 sets with a fixed interval.

 

[needsize]

A big factor for me in the weight I need for 5X5 is the time between sets. I did 5x5 each of weighted dips and pullups on Monday, alternating exercises with no rest, and I am so sore today.

Anyway it's important to time the intervals and take the same amount of time between each set. I found once that the interval I was taking was staggered so I took more and more time after each set, and I actually couldn't manage the weight for 5 sets with a fixed interval.

That's why I always time my rests, that way I know when I add weight, rest wasn't a factor, since I superse between muscles, ie bi's and tri's, I rest 1 - 1 1/2 minutes between sets

 

[strong island]

Good read if you're interested revexrevex

www.testosterone.net/html/1maxim.html

 

[revexrevex]

Thanks, I thought i read all T-mag articles.. but somehow missed this one. It does answer most of my questions

Rest might have been a factor in my training, I trained with a partner, and as soon as he finished.. I went for another set. Probably 40 sec - 1:30 min rest... I get the impression that this rest should be used mostly for lactate training... and reailizing that 5x5 is for strength, I will probably increase rest until heart completely calms down and I feel a bit fresher.. somewhere between 2 and 3 mins. Thanks again