Recently started doing ass to floor squats

[sandman_007]

i'm just suprised how much less weight i can use than with my old "half ass" squats.

i was previously squatting about 400 pounds, but my angle was only about 45-50 degrees down.

I'm now going down about 90 degrees, slightly and i had to lessen up the weight to 270-290.

after the workout, my ass hurt so bad! much more than with the heavier squats with less form.

now here's the funny thing, i can still do 800lbs on the leg press machine going down all the way, but doing full ROM squats, 290 now is my absolute max! The article i read about full ROM squats was quite good, and how it more fully works your leg muscles, so i thought i would change this.

How many other people here do their squats almost right down to the floor and what have your results been?

 

[dahamn]

i'm just suprised how much less weight i can use than with my old "half ass" squats.

i was previously squatting about 400 pounds, but my angle was only about 45-50 degrees down.

I'm now going down about 90 degrees, slightly and i had to lessen up the weight to 270-290.

after the workout, my ass hurt so bad! much more than with the heavier squats with less form.

now here's the funny thing, i can still do 800lbs on the leg press machine going down all the way, but doing full ROM squats, 290 now is my absolute max! The article i read about full ROM squats was quite good, and how it more fully works your leg muscles, so i thought i would change this.

How many other people here do their squats almost right down to the floor and what have your results been?

I started doing the same thing today, although my weight is half what yours is, I'm feeling it alot right now. Good work bro, I plan to keep it up.

 

[Madcow2]

How many other people here do their squats almost right down to the floor and what have your results been?

You are supposed to squat full range which is beyond 90 degrees. Top of thighs at 90 degrees is for PL and puts a lot of sheer on the knee reversing at that point. Full range loads the hips, hams, and gluts appropriately as the body intended. This is how you will develop the best set of legs by far and it is the safest on the knee. The weight decrease is shocking at first - especially for someone who comes from not even 1/2 way down, that will change in time and you will be rewarded with legs. As far as the leg press....I wouldn't put much faith in it developing your legs unless you have fabulous genetics to carry you and are willing to take enough drugs to make that machine work well.

You should spend some time with the squat, bench, and dead aritcles here. They are by far the finest I've come accross on the net, well written and referenced. No matter how much you think you know, you will realize that there is a lot more to it and it will save you a lot of time. I'm going to pull the quote below from the squat one. http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=14

There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)

 

[sandman_007]

I started doing the same thing today, although my weight is half what yours is, I'm feeling it alot right now. Good work bro, I plan to keep it up.

you should feel it a lot more in your glutes......at least i did

i still did my leg presses and was able to use the same amount of weight.

heh, funny thing is i used to do leg presses like i was doing my squats, only going down partially. I read then an article in M&F with Milos Sarcev saying how you shouldn't do that and train the ego and i made the change......lowered the weight about 230 pounds ( i was doing about the same weight i am doing now, 800 pounds, but partially down) i did 'em with about 570 and progressed from there, going completely down.

so now i'm at the same weight for the leg presses, but the major, huge difference is a complete ROM.

 

[super_rice]

I'm now going down about 90 degrees, slightly and i had to lessen up the weight to 270-290.

That is still half assed.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

That is still half assed.

theres still a benefit to doing partial squats- training your CNS to handle heavier loads.

 

[Madcow2]

theres still a benefit to doing partial squats- training your CNS to handle heavier loads.

That's an optomistic way to look at it.

 

[super_rice]

theres still a benefit to doing partial squats- training your CNS to handle heavier loads.

Hmm I never looked at it that way. I guess it's in the same realm as lockouts and walkouts? To be used cautiously, selectively, and rarely.

 

[sandman_007]

That is still half assed.

hmm...the stuff i read said 90 degrees, or parallel , is the best way to go.

 

[Fajitas]

atf should mean just that. Hams should touch your calves....

 

[Madcow2]

hmm...the stuff i read said 90 degrees, or parallel , is the best way to go.

Post #3 - read that - the large quotes section at the bottom too. This is well known outside of BBing. Go to the link and check the original article. The numbers in brackets, (5), are references to the research at the bottom. Go to a local univ library and read the studies that interest you so you can track this all the way back to the foundations. You want to go to at least 90 degrees but this really stresses the knees (for all the reasons in post #3). The body is designed to squat through it's full range of motion and this is how it is best trained for performance, strength, and aesthetics. Whoever told you otherwise, is wrong. Simple as that and very common.

 

[blut wump]

I started doing full, deep squats earlier this year. I very quickly found my outer quadsweep coming out and the muscles just above my knee have grown and firmed a lot.

There comes some point when you have to realise that you can count a squat as anything that you can unrack if depth of squatting is not an issue. PL competitions take 90 degrees as the defining point at which it's a squat. I tried doing that depth but soon found that I often wasn't entirely sure that I'd made the depth and also had no idea whether I'd made the same depth from one workout to the next or even one set to the next. How then could I judge progress?

The only way to be sure of consistency between sets was to go all the way down and that to me, now, is a full squat. Swallow your ego and accept that for a while your bench will be higher than your squat. It also has excellent benefits for your hams.

I like also to slap some knee wraps on but they don't let me get fully down. That's the time when I can play with silly weights again and they give such stability that I can take a glance in the mirror to check that I've gone past parallel.

BTW, it took under three months for my deepsquats to pass my bench.

 

[riverrock]

Main reason theres little Ass to Grass in gyms is because of ego. Guys would rather do a load og 45 degree squats and look like theya re really strong than go lower and hit the grass. I see one guy in our gym who squats 140kg at parallel and anything after that he "squats".

The thing is.....nobody cares what you lift in the gym....they just want you to lift it! Don'y be one bit ashamed to drop right down again in terms of what you squat. Your body will thank you by increasing its size and strength.

 

[BOOEY]

That's an optomistic way to look at it.

Yeah, but it's definitely true. I got a suggestion from a strongman telling me to just unrack a crap load of weight on your back (like 1.5-2x more than the normal weight you squat) and just hold it for 30-45 seconds. A couple sets of these, and squatting your normal weight feels like nothing.

 

[Madcow2]

Oh, I'm familiar with walkouts, partials and the rest. Of course, if you never actually do the full lift this stuff becomes very close to pointless.

 

[BOOEY]

Oh, I'm familiar with walkouts, partials and the rest. Of course, if you never actually do the full lift this stuff becomes very close to pointless.

Very true.

 

[H_T_]

i SQ atf, and in the last few months, i've been pausing at the bottom. it's pretty kool, cuz i started doing it with my warm-up weights and now, sitting down with 3 plates and pausing for a few seconds is a piece of cake.

 

[blut wump]

I saw a guy in the gym yesterday with four plates. He was going fully down but his route up consisted of extending his legs and then completing the movement with a GM as he finally straightened his legs. It was horrible to watch. Does anyone here have experience of the technique?

 

[Scotsman]

Main reason theres little Ass to Grass in gyms is because of ego. Guys would rather do a load og 45 degree squats and look like theya re really strong than go lower and hit the grass. I see one guy in our gym who squats 140kg at parallel and anything after that he "squats".

The thing is.....nobody cares what you lift in the gym....they just want you to lift it! Don'y be one bit ashamed to drop right down again in terms of what you squat. Your body will thank you by increasing its size and strength.

Don't forget that all the docs trained in the 70's also say not to squat at all and if you do to squat to 90. Fuckindumbshitassholes.

Since I started squatting atf my knees have stopped hurting(old injury) and My legs have gotten bigger and stronger than ever before.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Carl Carlson]

I'll just go ahead and add that any knee pain I had (from squatting) disappeared once I started going all the way down (ass to floor, or as close as I can possibly get).

 

[blut wump]

I've not had any knee grief either. Can we see a pattern emerging?

 

[super_rice]

I saw a guy in the gym yesterday with four plates. He was going fully down but his route up consisted of extending his legs and then completing the movement with a GM as he finally straightened his legs. It was horrible to watch. Does anyone here have experience of the technique?

actually, this is a type of exercise. maybe you should go ask the guy if he is doing it purposely though (i doubt it somehow).

i must say one has to have some balls to do a GM movement with more than a couple of plates. maybe his vertebral column will shoot out his ass

 

[Madcow2]

Generally it comes from not "pulling back" with the upper torso (I think I wrote a post a long time ago on this). The torso and legs worth together in the squat through the waist - two levers and a joint. By driving both, they work in unison and reach extension at the same time. This flaw tends to be most common to people with stronger backs than legs (or short torso, longer legs). They use their back strength and leverage to facilitate the legs and then catch up at the end. If they learned to co-ordinate both together and leverage their strength without hanging it out so to speak, their results would be better.

 

[blut wump]

Generally it comes from not "pulling back" with the upper torso (I think I wrote a post a long time ago on this). The torso and legs worth together in the squat through the waist - two levers and a joint. By driving both, they work in unison and reach extension at the same time. This flaw tends to be most common to people with stronger backs than legs (or short torso, longer legs). They use their back strength and leverage to facilitate the legs and then catch up at the end. If they learned to co-ordinate both together and leverage their strength without hanging it out so to speak, their results would be better.

Yes I remember that post and ever since then I've tried to imagine someone pushing me in the chest as I rise when I've expected problems getting up. It helped with stability.

This explanation makes a lot of sense as he did the lighter weights fine. Good, impressive ATF squats and then he went for four plates each side and did three or four reps straining these hideous things out. He was still ATF, though, but it didn't look good on the back.

I've seen this same guy deadlifting five plates plus change which adds weight to the suggestion that he has a strength imbalance in favour of his back.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I was waiting for the squat rack the other day and one of my Asian brothers, probably 20yrs old or so, was on it with like 155.

So I stretched and warmed up 'nearby' (told him to take his time, though ) and waited for his sets.

Anyway, he went ATF with a pause at the bottom; I was impressed, a lot more than dudes I see with 4 plates doing quarter squats.

Late he told me he was tired from GHR the other day and he showed me his shins all scarred from deadlifting.

Kid sounds like a monster in the making.

 

[blut wump]

Well, I got a twinge in one of my knees today as I hit the hole. I came up fine but didn't fancy a second rep. I switched over to PL style and was fine for the rest of the workout (wider stance, sitting back to parallel and trying to keep shins near to vertical).

I'd been fine during warmups and my earlier weights and was fine going light for 10 reps at the end. Sorry to break the pattern on good knees with ATF. It's about time I started to work the PL style of squatting as an alternative to Oly style I guess.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Conversation I overheard between my wife and a Bally's PT today. I was doing GM's at an open rack and she was in the squat rack a few stations down.

Her squat form is butt to ankles, chest up, shoulders back (I hate her ). So she's doing 115lbs or so, 5 x 5

PT: (sprinting over) Hi I'm James, Personal Trainer (uhm, OK..instant credibility? BTW, this guy wears those shiny spandex biking shorts, a tight tank top, a bandanna and frankly speaking doesn't look very good. Plus I've never seen him put anyone on anything other than a machine. Except for dumbell fly's maybe)

Wife: Hi

PT: On your squats you're going waaaay too low (shakes head in disgust. Obviously can't believe the sheer stupidity of some people)

Wife: Oh (looks over at me nervously, I look away and pretend like I'm stretching. The last thing I want to do is waste time arguing with a PT)

PT: You should never go past parallel. Put a block under your heels if you have to. Have you seen those?

Wife: Yep (looks over at me again, mad at me now)

PT: If you keep squatting like that in 10yrs you won't have any knees left.

Wife: OK, thanks for the advice (proceeds to put another 10lbs on and continues with butt to ankles squat)

 

[Guinness5.0]

I was teaching a girl to squat just last night (perks of working late at a gym- I have the place pretty much to myself after ten) and some guy working next to us was showing his g/f how to squat. Man it was funny overhearing all the typical fallacies.

Way to be chivalrous Jim [clapping sarcastically]

 

[Jim Ouini]

Way to be chivalrous Jim [clapping sarcastically]

 

[blut wump]

I'm still trying to work out how the block under her heels would cause her to stop at parallel. Having a block strapped to her rump I could understand but under the heels doesn't make any sense.

Squatting is like sex, it's best when you go all the way.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Well he was saying a lot of things in general about squat form. I might've taken that remark about the block out of context

Seriously though, when he came over and I heard him introduce himself I thought he was going to compliment her on her form, since everything she does is textbook (she has a bad back from her youth so is very careful), and she's gotten kudo's from other PT's there.

No one ever compliments me on my form

Squatting is like sex, it's best when you go all the way.

Ulp is that why I can only do 1/4 squats??