Real good read, everyone should

[NYBodyguard]

one of the points I found interesting is how the lower does was better for muscle gain

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-02/uoc--asu021706.php

 

[Mr.X]

It's a bias article written by the liberal media, what do you expect?

do you know how many people die from Acetaminophen (ibuprofen) poisoning?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=11017
"Acetaminophen overdose causes more than 450 deaths due to acute liver failure each year in the United States and this number appears to be on the rise. In 2001"

 

[southpaw45]

Acetaminophen is the AI in Tylenol. Stay away from it. Ibuprofen is what's in Advil and is a lot safer. You can even mix it with aleve if your in need. Little off subject but usefull.

 

[Darkos_Money]

So my take is if i take 40 Mgs of var i have a serious chance of having heart problems?LOL

 

[itlnstln]

Just dump this "two wrongs don't make a right" thread.

Just cause people are dying from Tylenol, doesn't mean they should legalize AS, and it doesn't mean that they should make Tylenol Illegal, and so on, and so on, and so on, blah, blah, blah

 

[SwolK]

Question, did they mean that increased chance of heart attack is only while on? or down the road later in life?

 

[bilter]

this is not new information. We are all (well mostly all) aware that many of the aa17 steroids like var and winny are VERY hard on lipid profiles which in turn, if used for a long period of time, will increase a persons chances to for heart diesease. Especially if no counter measures are taken (policosanol, nolvadex, niacin etc). I guess it is good that we now have more confirmation of this and it will help make more people aware. As I posted 3 weeks ago, I was taking 30mg of var for just over 2 weeks and my HDL went from 82 down to 26....YIKES!!1

 

[SwolK]

bilter, thats crazy.
so my impression: If using moderately, and aa17 steroids are limited to short amount of time(6-8 weeks) typically one would recover from cycle. meaning that lipid profiles would return to normal, and not cause heart disease, and HDL would return to normal? assuming that cycle was run at moderate doses and kept relitively short

 

[justinjones1963]

The study also had these guys taking it for 12 weeks - entirely too long for an oral cycle. Limit it to 4-6 weeks max and have long breaks in between. Only a moron would take 80mg of var/ED for 12 weeks. The study also said some took it for an additional 12 weeks - pure insanity!

They also didn't have these guys taking liver protectants or anything else.

I have had a problem with my HDL. Last fall it was 30 and this was without a cycle. I read up and realized I needed to change my diet and add some supplements. I did a cycle of winny @ 50mg/ED and my HDL was 45 6 weeks after the cycle ended. My LDL was 81 (or 86...can't remember). I think I have a genetic disposition for good LDL though. My SO is always over 200, so is everyone else in her family and she eats a healthy diet. I knew a professional boxer who was in damn good shape, sharp diet and in outstanding shape (no AAS either) yet his LDL levels were always high. Some people just have bad genes.

Anyway, the moral of the story is use orals in moderation and make sure you take supplements and tweak your diet if you are going to take AAS.

 

[SwolK]

justinjones1963,
im soon going to be doing a cutter with oral winny as part of it. I have never used oral, only IM. what liver protectents and at what doses do you reccommend?

 

[nydj66]

The headline for that article illustrates the hysteria surrounding AAS use. One study looking only at a 17AA compound like Anavar does not justify a blanket condemnation of all AAS.

 

[hankes64]

Why dont people just inject?

 

[justinjones1963]

justinjones1963,
im soon going to be doing a cutter with oral winny as part of it. I have never used oral, only IM. what liver protectents and at what doses do you reccommend?

I used to use NOW's liver supplement (it is very inexpensive) but now I take Tylers's Liver Detox. You can get it from the AF Store. It is by far a superior product. I take 2 tabs twice per day while on orals.

Also, I drink 1 1/2-2 gallons of water per day.

 

[thelion2005]

Couple of comments:
(1) Sounds like orals. More you take, more of an impact on your liver. Duh.
(2) Patients had HIV and AIDS? These folk aren't worried about a heart attack in 20 years. They are trying to stay alive TODAY!
(3) There is merit in "lowest dosage for largest impact" in any drug application. Seems logical to learn about your body with low dosage to begin with. Hell of a change with even 75 mg total a week on a virgin.

 

[slat1]

I found the part where it spoke on the suppression of natural test levels interesting.

 

[justinjones1963]

just to throw in another comment...

these test subjects were HIV+. Their immune systems are already getting hammered with the virus. Since the liver is critical for making antibodies I imagine it is working overtime and is being stressed without AAS. Throw in some AAS (orals nonetheless) and that would put additional stress on the liver. All of this in turn will provide skewered results - especially in regards to liver levels being off. my 2 cc's.

 

[nydj66]

I found the part where it spoke on the suppression of natural test levels interesting.

That's a good point, a lot of people believe that anavar does not suppress endogenous test production but clearly it does.

 

[21gun]

Juice should be legalized...look at all of the tax dollars the government is missing out on!!!