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Race and prison population
- Thread starter Lumberg
- Start date
the nature boy
New member
I've already done research on this topic, basically prison population between blacks and whites are roughly equal. However I'd like to see statistics on economic factors and prison population.
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
What does it matter? More than half the people on Elite should be in jail for their extra-curricular activities. And ya know what most people on Elite are white males. We can beat this subject into the ground. All that matters is they're behind bars where they should be, reguardless of race.
Lumberg
New member
BronzedGoddess said:
Whoa there nelly. About 55% of all prisoners are there on drug-related charges. I bet a lot of those are marijuana-only convictions. Now I truly believe that if you're gonna let alcohol be legal that you damn well have to let pot be legal. So is behind bars truly where every one of those people BELONGS?
JC
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
joncrane said:
Well, I wouldn't know because I've never smoked pot or done any other illegal substance so I'm not fit to debate on this subject because I have no idea.
BronzedGoddess said:
Nice copout.
Prisons exist to keep America from having to address its wealth disparities and poverty problem. Hard to protest from jail.
Natymike
New member
At midyear 2001 there were:
4,848 sentenced black male inmates per 100,000 black males in the United States
1,668 sentenced Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic
705 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm
so what research have you done nature boy??? just curios.
4,848 sentenced black male inmates per 100,000 black males in the United States
1,668 sentenced Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic
705 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm
so what research have you done nature boy??? just curios.
Natymike said:
i by no means speak for natureboy, but i'll take a stab
he only mentioned total prison populations.
1997 white-3,429,000 : black- 2,149,900 : other- 113,600
comparable.
what he seems to be saying is rather than looking at black vs. white and concluding from the figures you quoted that blacks seem more prone to crime, see if the figures from under-privilidged white citizens are the same./similar as black ones
this would show its not a race issue, but an economic one.
not every ethinic minority has a large contingent in the prisons too, id like to see where asians, american indians, indians,, easern europeans come on this etc
macrophage69alpha
New member
pretty sure that drug and drug related crimes make up over 70% of convictions...
though would argue that marijuana makes up a very small percentage of those..
legalize most drugs, tax them.. and end the 150 year old war began by the "anti-chinese league"
peace
though would argue that marijuana makes up a very small percentage of those..
legalize most drugs, tax them.. and end the 150 year old war began by the "anti-chinese league"
peace
Natymike said:
its from the site you posted
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/cpracetab.htm
good luck on your final
PURE EXTRACT
New member
Natymike said:
actually depending where you get your information from...it isn't off at all. That's why I'm not going to bother with this bullshit anymore. Because we'll be arguing forever on who's right or wrong.
Natymike
New member
danielson said:
Yea, what rush said.
And since whites make up 70% of the population it would make sense that more are on probation since probation is slap on the wrist.
Thanks for wishing me good luck, unfortunately it was one of the hardests test I've taken, fucking took me 3 hours for only 10 problems, and I'm sure I fucked up one of the 900 steps involved in each problem.
the nature boy
New member
The Nature Boy said:
ha ha. I got gray karma that said:
"shit for brains." Sweet.
the nature boy
New member
Natymike said:
read my statement again!!!! I'm not talking about percentages of which race going to jail, I'm talking about PRISON POPULATION!!!!!!! learn how to read.
the nature boy
New member
here you go skippy:
"At midyear 1999 a majority of local jail inmates were black or
Hispanic. White non-Hispanics made up 41.3% of the jail
population; black non-Hispanics, 41.5%; Hispanics, 15.5%; and
other races (Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians, and
Alaska Natives), 1.7%."
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/pjim99.txt
I love it when I'm right.
"At midyear 1999 a majority of local jail inmates were black or
Hispanic. White non-Hispanics made up 41.3% of the jail
population; black non-Hispanics, 41.5%; Hispanics, 15.5%; and
other races (Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians, and
Alaska Natives), 1.7%."
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/pjim99.txt
I love it when I'm right.
Natymike
New member
Nature boy, you are right about nothing.
the stat you posted is in regard to JAILS there is a difference between jail and prison "skippy" but I don't have time explain how prisons inmates are a little more harsh than "local jail inmates". If you don't know the difference between jail and prison then you are not allowed to keep arguing your shallow position.
Now, Since whites make up 70% of the population and blacks make up 14%, it would make sense that the prison population
white 70%
black 14%
right?? that would be "equal"
Unfortunately it is no where near that. Even if whites make up 50% and blacks make up 50%, it is still not even close to "equal" do you see the big picture yet "skippy"? blacks are over 50% of the prison population, whites are in the 30's. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS PRISON NOT JAIL SKIPPY. even prominant BLACK authors know this, why don't you.
http://64.39.30.79/columnists/elder/2001/le07-27-01.htm
here is a stat you seemed to of left out of your "research"
On June 30, 1999 --
An estimated 11% of black males, 4% of Hispanic males, and
1.5% of white males in their twenties and early thirties were in
prison or jail.
why stop now,
Lifetime chances of a person going to prison are higher for
-- blacks (16.2%) and Hispanics (9.4%) than for whites (2.5%)
http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
here is a chart to educate you on the past, present and future of the prison population
http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.ncianet.org/ncia/mlk2.jpeg
still think its even??
-At the start of the 1990s, the U.S. had more Black men (between the ages of 20 and 29) under the control of the nation's criminal justice system than the total number in college.
-One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 years old is under correctional supervision or control.
-At current levels of incarceration, newborn Black males in this country have a greater than 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during their lifetimes, while Latin-American males have a 1 in 6 chance, and white males have a 1 in 23 chance of serving time
-1.46 million black men out of a total voting population of 10.4 million have lost their right to vote due to felony convictions.
-The rate of imprisonment for black women is more than eight times the rate of imprisonment of white women; the rate of imprisonment of Hispanic women is nearly four times the rate of imprisonment of white women.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/racepris.htm
still think its even "skippy"?
the stat you posted is in regard to JAILS there is a difference between jail and prison "skippy" but I don't have time explain how prisons inmates are a little more harsh than "local jail inmates". If you don't know the difference between jail and prison then you are not allowed to keep arguing your shallow position.
Now, Since whites make up 70% of the population and blacks make up 14%, it would make sense that the prison population
white 70%
black 14%
right?? that would be "equal"
Unfortunately it is no where near that. Even if whites make up 50% and blacks make up 50%, it is still not even close to "equal" do you see the big picture yet "skippy"? blacks are over 50% of the prison population, whites are in the 30's. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS PRISON NOT JAIL SKIPPY. even prominant BLACK authors know this, why don't you.
http://64.39.30.79/columnists/elder/2001/le07-27-01.htm
here is a stat you seemed to of left out of your "research"
On June 30, 1999 --
An estimated 11% of black males, 4% of Hispanic males, and
1.5% of white males in their twenties and early thirties were in
prison or jail.
why stop now,
Lifetime chances of a person going to prison are higher for
-- blacks (16.2%) and Hispanics (9.4%) than for whites (2.5%)
http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
here is a chart to educate you on the past, present and future of the prison population
http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.ncianet.org/ncia/mlk2.jpeg
still think its even??
-At the start of the 1990s, the U.S. had more Black men (between the ages of 20 and 29) under the control of the nation's criminal justice system than the total number in college.
-One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 years old is under correctional supervision or control.
-At current levels of incarceration, newborn Black males in this country have a greater than 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during their lifetimes, while Latin-American males have a 1 in 6 chance, and white males have a 1 in 23 chance of serving time
-1.46 million black men out of a total voting population of 10.4 million have lost their right to vote due to felony convictions.
-The rate of imprisonment for black women is more than eight times the rate of imprisonment of white women; the rate of imprisonment of Hispanic women is nearly four times the rate of imprisonment of white women.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/racepris.htm
still think its even "skippy"?
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the nature boy
New member
ok skippy
here's the basic numbers
total prison and jail population 1,711,400
percentage of black inmates 44%
percentage of white inmates 36%
So I'd say my first statement is pretty accurate.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim99.pdf (page 10, table 12)
as I said earlier brainiac, I ddin't discount the fact that a higher percentage of blacks go to jail than whites, skippy.
here's the basic numbers
total prison and jail population 1,711,400
percentage of black inmates 44%
percentage of white inmates 36%
So I'd say my first statement is pretty accurate.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim99.pdf (page 10, table 12)
as I said earlier brainiac, I ddin't discount the fact that a higher percentage of blacks go to jail than whites, skippy.
the nature boy
New member
furthermore nattyskippy, in 1996:
the total prison and jail population was 1,512,200
total blacks 821,900
total whites 773,900
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cpius961.pdf
and look at those on parole. if you took all the parolees and threw them in jail then the number of whites in prison would dominate the number of blacks
total number of parolees 3,151,400
whites 2,496,600
blacks 1,325,600
ha ha. I'm right. You're wrong.
the total prison and jail population was 1,512,200
total blacks 821,900
total whites 773,900
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cpius961.pdf
and look at those on parole. if you took all the parolees and threw them in jail then the number of whites in prison would dominate the number of blacks
total number of parolees 3,151,400
whites 2,496,600
blacks 1,325,600
ha ha. I'm right. You're wrong.
Natymike said:
I am not justifying anything. I am addressing the inequalities of the legal system. The poorer you are, the worse it gets. Good luck with the overworked public defender.
Whereas, if you have money, you can do anything and get away with it. Right OJ?
Lumberg
New member
Natymike said:
First of all, you should have read the thread that started this discussion. You are totally "off sequence." Nature Boy was talking about absolute numbers, and the absolute numbers of incarcerated blacks and whites are "comparable." So they are equal numerically, which is all he meant. I don't think that the "fairness" of the sitution is under debate.
Second of all, what is the difference between a jain and a prison? Since apparently nobody knows but you, why don't you educate us?
And, finally, does anybody have information that breaks down the economic background of prison inmates?
JC
the nature boy
New member
MattTheSkywalker said:
besides, how many drug possession arrests do you hear about in the suburbs? Hardly any. They mostly happen in the more urbanized areas. And in the burbs there is just as much drug consumption as there is in the inner city... if not more.
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
The Nature Boy said:
Now this is true. I grew up in a predominatly black/hispanic neigborhood and we had dealers, but you know who their #1 customers were? The white kids out in the suburbs where the minority population was less that 5% And they were not smoking weed, these kids were crack heads. On all the hard sh*t. But I guess they are the victims so the cops leave them alone.
the nature boy
New member
BronzedGoddess said:
also the means of distribution is different in the city vs the burbs. in the city most guys selling rock or dime bags are out in the open, and all it takes is some cops in a van to watch them and BAM they're busted. Dealing in the suburbs is done behind closed doors, making it more difficult to make an arrest.
Mysterio
New member
BronzedGoddess said:
That is very true! My uncle was a drug dealer and most of his customers were white upper class students from colleges looking to get high. To people like my uncle they see $$ money. I always wondered what are they doing here in a neighborhood like mine.
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Ercole
New member
Many factors contribute to the racial make-up of our prison population. One of the biggest is where crimes take place. A suburban white guy snorting coke in his home is much harder to catch than a dealer exchanging drugs for cash on the street.
Black criminals, concentrated in heavily-policed urban areas, are simply easier to catch. Studies I've seen show that in large American cities roughly 50 % of street crimes are committed by black males. That alone explains their high profile in prison.
Street criminals are not only easier to catch, they have more of an impact on society. Escorts and callgirls, for example, are pretty much ignored by police, since their business takes place entirely over the phone or in the privacy of their or their clients' homes.
Street prostitutes, on the other hand, may be giving some slob a BJ parked in front of your house when your kids come home from soccer practice. Street crime, again, is what really affects quality of life and pisses off law-abiding people the most.
So street criminals are always going to get more attention from law enforcement, and I think that's only right. Steroid violations, similarly, are less pursued by police because steroid dealers don't generally hang out on street corners or gun each other down over turf disputes.
Drug violations are the other reason so many blacks go to prison. The same black leaders who in the 1980s insisted that law enforcement get tough with crack dealers and users in the 1980s are now complaining too many black men are in prison. As long as lots of black men use and/or deal drugs, and as long as law enforcement keeps being told to crack down on "the drug problem", our prisons will be overloaded with black men.
Personally I'd like to see drugs legalized and regulated, as is done in Australia and some European countries. This would do more than anything to cut the number of black men sent to prison.
Black criminals, concentrated in heavily-policed urban areas, are simply easier to catch. Studies I've seen show that in large American cities roughly 50 % of street crimes are committed by black males. That alone explains their high profile in prison.
Street criminals are not only easier to catch, they have more of an impact on society. Escorts and callgirls, for example, are pretty much ignored by police, since their business takes place entirely over the phone or in the privacy of their or their clients' homes.
Street prostitutes, on the other hand, may be giving some slob a BJ parked in front of your house when your kids come home from soccer practice. Street crime, again, is what really affects quality of life and pisses off law-abiding people the most.
So street criminals are always going to get more attention from law enforcement, and I think that's only right. Steroid violations, similarly, are less pursued by police because steroid dealers don't generally hang out on street corners or gun each other down over turf disputes.
Drug violations are the other reason so many blacks go to prison. The same black leaders who in the 1980s insisted that law enforcement get tough with crack dealers and users in the 1980s are now complaining too many black men are in prison. As long as lots of black men use and/or deal drugs, and as long as law enforcement keeps being told to crack down on "the drug problem", our prisons will be overloaded with black men.
Personally I'd like to see drugs legalized and regulated, as is done in Australia and some European countries. This would do more than anything to cut the number of black men sent to prison.
the nature boy
New member
so I guess it's a matter of what is seen and not seen. overt cimimality or crime committed in public seems to be easier to detect and therefore easier to prosecute. Crime behind closed doors is much harder to stop because it's not the DL.
where's my weed at?
where's my weed at?
the nature boy
New member
spentagn said:
that was spentagn folks, spentagn. He'll be here all week.
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
joncrane said:
BECUASE I CAN!
W
Warik
Guest
MattTheSkywalker said:
I'm sure there are lots of lawyers who would love to be public defenders, but refuse to practice as such because of the lack of financial reward from such a profession. If only we could find a way to resolve that... eh?
-Warik
Natymike
New member
joncrane said:
Are you serious??
You are a complete idiot.
Has your feeble brain noticed that all of these stats are for EITHER JAIL OR PRISON.
Why do you think that giant OR is present?? are you that ignorant??
There is no point in me even arguing anymore when you idiots don't know that there is a difference between jail and prison.
oh, and on a side note, FUCK YOU for flaming me when trying to defend your thread.
Lumberg
New member
Natymike said:
You're doing a great job getting your point across--I guess you are so high above everyone elose mentally that it's just impossible to impart your vast knowledge on your intellectually inferior board mates. How's the view from your ivory tower?
And thanks for answering my question.
JC
D
dballer
Guest
BronzedGoddess said:
BULLSHIT!!! Alot of people in jail should not even be there.
D
dballer
Guest
Natymike said:
Alot of people do not know this because they have never been to either.. but these are the people who will tell you how it is when you get there.
the nature boy
New member
I was kinda hoping for a response from natymike.
the nature boy
New member
WTF? I've gotten two thingys of bad karma for my very 1st post on this thread. I don't really have a problem with the bad karma but I really don't see what the problem was with that statement. I've backed it up with factual info.
Oh yeah, the bad karma said "Idiot". FYI I'm only a partial idiot.
Oh yeah, the bad karma said "Idiot". FYI I'm only a partial idiot.
Lao Tzu
New member
joncrane said:
2. In america, generally if you commit a crime that has a sentence of 1 year or less, you go to jail. Jail is where all the DUIs, drug possessions, and people waiting for trial go. Prison is for people who have sentences of over 1 year. In Jail (if you live in a small town) you will be in with immature badasses who get in fist fights. In prison you will be in with armed robbers & gang members (if your violence level is high enough to warrant a level 3 or 4 prison).
3.
http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/1,4096,0205305571,00.html
the nature boy
New member
nordstrom said:
looks like an interesting book. I know for a fact that posession of crack cocaine will result in a significantly stiffer prison sentence than posession of cocaine. Guess who's more likely to use crack, lower income folks.
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
dballer said:
A lot of people that belong in jail are NOT even there. Look Around Look Around.
D
dballer
Guest
BronzedGoddess said:
A lot of people that belong in jail are NOT even there. Look Around Look Around.
VERY TRUE!!!
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
joncrane said:
Honestly no, becuase when Olympic athletes get caught they get a slap on the wrist and fined not jail time, so why should the average joe be treated any differently.
dballer, and Bronzed G. are both right, it's fked both ways.
I think it's worse that people's freedom is gone though. I'd rather be criminal and free, than innocent and locked up.
And a damn good point there BG, we shouldn't be treated any differently, but for a lot of O athletes (other countries), they can readily get roids OTC, doesnt make it right......but it's common to use roids.......
I think it's worse that people's freedom is gone though. I'd rather be criminal and free, than innocent and locked up.
And a damn good point there BG, we shouldn't be treated any differently, but for a lot of O athletes (other countries), they can readily get roids OTC, doesnt make it right......but it's common to use roids.......
B
BronzedGoddess
Guest
Gorlim said:
What's the difference between possesing something in your hand or in your bloodstream? It's all the same. And believe me I know the difference between jail and prison.
Natymike
New member
The Nature Boy said:
You posted a stat for Jail and Prison combined, if you want to go back and re-read your original post you said PRISON. Jail is for petty criminals, many are white since 70% of the population is white. However, most of the career criminals are black and in PRISON.
There are more whites in Jail then blacks in Jail. But there are WAY more blacks in PRISON than whites in prison.
So once again, you are right about nothing so stop trying to act like you showed me up.
You still obviously still don't realize that there is a difference between jail and prison so all you have proved is your extreme ignorance.
"AH, I LOVE IT WHEN I'M RIGHT, LA, LA, LA,"............
grow up.
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the nature boy
New member
Natymike said:
You posted a stat for Jail and Prison combined, if you want to go back and re-read your original post you said PRISON. Jail is for petty criminals, many are white since 70% of the population is white. However, most of the career criminals are black and in PRISON.
There are more whites in Jail then blacks in Jail. But there are WAY more blacks in PRISON than whites in prison.
So once again, you are right about nothing so stop trying to act like you showed me up.
You still obviously still don't realize that there is a difference between jail and prison so all you have proved is your extreme ignorance.
"AH, I LOVE IT WHEN I'M RIGHT, LA, LA, LA,"............
dude that's a weak attempt to use semantics with me. that basically means I had you beat. prove to me using stats from the department of corrections that ther are WAY more blacks in prison than whites. Recall, jail is also for those waiting to be tried to go to prison.
So quit that nonsense about me not knowing about prison or jail, because it's a pretty weak. You can point out my faulty usage of prison and/or jail, but until you dispute my numbers with actual facts from the department of corrections, you've lost.
Natymike
New member
lost??
I was going to let this one go cause I didn't feel like searching for stats but since you can't let it go:
"In 1950, whites made up about 65 percent of all state and federal inmates, white minorities made up 35 percent. Today, the opposite is true, with 35 percent of the prison population made up of whites."
http://members.tripod.com/~ronmull/racism.html
http://www.hemp.net/news/9903/05/million_blacks_in_prison.htm
I was going to let this one go cause I didn't feel like searching for stats but since you can't let it go:
"In 1950, whites made up about 65 percent of all state and federal inmates, white minorities made up 35 percent. Today, the opposite is true, with 35 percent of the prison population made up of whites."
http://members.tripod.com/~ronmull/racism.html
http://www.hemp.net/news/9903/05/million_blacks_in_prison.htm
the nature boy
New member
Natymike said:
ha, you posted this at 1:30 AM EST and expected me to respond? nice try.
I don't buy any of those sights, get your stats from the US department of corrections. those links above are about as credible as Highlights magazine.
Ercole
New member
>Nature Boy wrote: I know for a fact that posession of crack >cocaine will result in a significantly stiffer prison sentence than >posession of cocaine. Guess who's more likely to use crack, lower income folks.
There's a reason for that. In the 1980s crack and powder cocaine carried the same penalties. Then a few professional loudmouths like Rep. Maxine Waters cried racism -- crack was devastating black communities! If the government really cared about blacks, they'd make penalties for crack much stiffer!
So the government did it. They made crack sentences more severe, which resulted in lots of young black men going to prison for a long, long time.
At which point Ms. Waters had the gall to cry racism AGAIN, accusing the government of setting crack penalties higher to oppress poor blacks. I wish my truck could pull a 180 as fast as she can!
For politicians like Waters, all that really matters is trolling for black votes by scapegoating whites for every problem in every black person's life. This time her antics came around to bite her in her race-baiting ass. Blame whitey, indeed!
There's a reason for that. In the 1980s crack and powder cocaine carried the same penalties. Then a few professional loudmouths like Rep. Maxine Waters cried racism -- crack was devastating black communities! If the government really cared about blacks, they'd make penalties for crack much stiffer!
So the government did it. They made crack sentences more severe, which resulted in lots of young black men going to prison for a long, long time.
At which point Ms. Waters had the gall to cry racism AGAIN, accusing the government of setting crack penalties higher to oppress poor blacks. I wish my truck could pull a 180 as fast as she can!
For politicians like Waters, all that really matters is trolling for black votes by scapegoating whites for every problem in every black person's life. This time her antics came around to bite her in her race-baiting ass. Blame whitey, indeed!
