Race and achievement

[casualbb]

I'm a psych major, and by and large psych is some predictable stuff. It explains how we already are, whoop-de-doo. HOwever occasionally some stuff surprises me.

Fact: blacks are less likely than whites to be hired for jobs. duh.

It's been tested and proven that interviewers interviewing blacks are less friendly, more standoffish, less interested, etc. during the interview. Their voice and body language reflect that, they sat farther away, etc.

Black candidates were impartially rated worse than whites post-interview in experiments.

The interesting part is: they trained interviewers to be able to fake it, to fake all those signs, and got them to do it to white people. Those whites that received "black treatment" from trained experimental interviewers were rated just as low as actual black candidates in the evaluations.

...draw your own conclusions

 

[SoreArms]

its a c-o-n-spiracy!

 

[coverguy]

there are too many assholes in the world that are unaccepting and narrow-minded!

 

[Dial_tone]

I thought this was about NASCAR, mang.

 

[BO-DEN]

there are too many assholes in the world that are unaccepting and narrow-minded!

to bad assholes like that run this shity world.

its like after trent lott, its the norm for old fuds in our government to feel that way. its almost laughable now when some 80 year old senator says he hates niggers.

 

[danielson]

there is widespread institutionalised racism. what degree is open to interpretation, but it is freely acknowledged as a problem in some institutions

I could quote you the article that showed my uni preferentially selected white names for interview over non-white ones (they got prosecuted and we're very multicultural now )

 

[Longhorn85]

I'm 43 yrs old and every job interview that I have ever had has gone extremely well.

 

[wtlftr]

eliminate this. Goto paper interviews. Assign a number to a canidate and eliminate the prejudice. I mean are THEY are guilty of something?

 

[glennds]

maybe i walk around with blinders on but i don't see black guys having it so bad. i know many black guys here in so ca that have done very for well for themselves.

some white people like hearing "statistics" and "proven studies" like this to make them feel superior. makes no difference to me.

 

[wtlftr]

I think a lot of minorities keep racism alive.

 

[casualbb]

some white people like hearing "statistics" and "proven studies" like this to make them feel superior. makes no difference to me.

umm why would this make white people feel superior?

it shows that when whites are treated like blacks they perform at the same level

 

[glennds]

no offense (really ) casualbb but you are a college kid with no real life experience. when you get out in the real world you will see that "studies" are often flawed and mean absolutely nothing. that "study" sounds like it was done in the 70s.

how many interviewers were tracked? five? ten? twenty-five? does that mean every interviewer in the US acts exactly the same?

i don't buy that is this day and age blacks have any less chance of getting hired somewhere with the proper training, experience, drive, ability to communicate etc.

and yes, some white people like to hear these kinda things. don't fool yourself.

 

[MAX 300]

I'm 43 yrs old and every job interview that I have ever had has gone extremely well.

I take it you are against affirmative action.

Not meaning to flame, but why?

What kind of jobs have you been interviewed for? You never felt discriminated? Do you think there is no discrimination against black job seekers?

Sincere questions.

 

[gregory]

It does not matter what color you are. What REALLY matters is the kind of person you are. Everyone has great insecurities about themselves, we are in essence our own worst enemies, some have to fight battles up a steeper slope, but everyone can be sucessfull. It starts in your head. You literally have to be able to see it to be it.

So if you see yourself as a black guy with little chance, then guess what, You will have little chance. See youself as an accomplished doctor and never let go of that vision, then in time it will come. It's the same for everyone, white, black , yellow you name it. We all fight different battles within ourselves.

Peace.

 

[Robert Jan]

Many blacks assume this will happen though and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

 

[gregory]

Many blacks assume this will happen though and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

Good one liner to explain my post.

 

[Longhorn85]

I take it you are against affirmative action.

Not meaning to flame, but why?

What kind of jobs have you been interviewed for? You never felt discriminated? Do you think there is no discrimination against black job seekers?

Sincere questions.

Yes, I am against affirmative action. Casualb, you need to post a link to that study so we can see who commissioned it. I guarantee that they have an agenda.

Doesn't anyone see the fallacy of this whole premise? You guys are assuming right off the bat that the interviewer is white.

 

[Longhorn85]

What kind of jobs have you been interviewed for?

I pointed out my age for a reason. I have interviewed for fast food jobs when I was a teenager, scholarships for college, jobs during and after college, positions and assignments within the military during my 19 yr career, jobs in the fitness industry as a group fitness instructor/personal trainer in many different states during my military career, and now as I near retirement I have interviewed with more than one fortune 500 company.

I also have been on the other side of the desk, as the interviewer. I have interviewed whites, blacks, women, etc.

 

[gregory]

Yeah, but that's because you "sold out".

j/k

 

[danielson]

blacks may have more education opportunities but you have to accept the fact that if a racist person gets into a position of power when hiring he will allow his racism to affect his judgement

there are MANY cases where I have seen this happen first hand. This should not be happening. Does it happen in the majority of cases...depends on the field and the people within it. but it is fair enough to say that racism is still widespread if not as socially acceptable as before

When unbiased studies confirm or deny this there is a problem, clearly. This was the probable logic behind AA...it hasnt paid off so much. Instead you have seen other ethnikc monorities (its not just black and white) that have had to make certain professions there own simply due to not being accepted in other fields

ultimatley 66% of all immigrants are white and its the remaining 34% that usually faced the brunt of media and politicians. what makes you think this kind of prejudice wouldnt be replicated in the workplace?

 

[Hengst]

Why is the failure of blacks to succeed and achieve always blamed on white racism?

 

[big4rt]

I pointed out my age for a reason. I have interviewed for fast food jobs when I was a teenager, scholarships for college, jobs during and after college, positions and assignments within the military during my 19 yr career, jobs in the fitness industry as a group fitness instructor/personal trainer in many different states during my military career, and now as I near retirement I have interviewed with more than one fortune 500 company.

I also have been on the other side of the desk, as the interviewer. I have interviewed whites, blacks, women, etc.

SELL OUT!!! Just kidding, bro. At 31, and I believe we were both commissioned officers, Longhorn, I can say the same thing. Before and after the Army I have had nothing but successful interviews. I personally attribute that to good parenting and development as a child. ie. How to look a person in the eye when they are speaking to you. Not saying "You know what I'm saying?" every other sentence. Getting knocked upside the back of your head for saying "ummm" all the time like God gave you no good sense. It made a difference in my professional career.

 

[Hengst]

SELL OUT!!! Just kidding, bro. At 31, and I believe we were both commissioned officers, Longhorn, I can say the same thing. Before and after the Army I have had nothing but successful interviews. I personally attribute that to good parenting and development as a child. ie. How to look a person in the eye when they are speaking to you. Not saying "You know what I'm saying?" every other sentence. Getting knocked upside the back of your head for saying "ummm" all the time like God gave you no good sense. It made a difference in my professional career.

absolutely

 

[Longhorn85]

I personally attribute that to good parenting and development as a child. ie. How to look a person in the eye when they are speaking to you. Not saying "You know what I'm saying?" every other sentence. Getting knocked upside the back of your head for saying "ummm" all the time like God gave you no good sense. It made a difference in my professional career.

Yup. Just like Bill Cosby has been saying. Guess who criticized the Cos? Liberals.

 

[Longhorn85]

Why is the failure of blacks to succeed and achieve always blamed on white racism?

White liberals with a guilty conscience and who believe deep down that blacks are not as capable as themselves.

 

[Hengst]

Yup. Just like Bill Cosby has been saying. Guess who criticized the Cos? Liberals.

AND his fellow black community for daring to suggest that the failure of blacks to succeed is NOT the fault of white racism.

 

[gregory]

But let's not forget the fact that the black community is racist itself and does not exactly encourage their population to do better in becoming more educated and moving up. A lot of blacks have a fear of being ostrecised by other blacks for being too white. IMO Bill cosby is right on the money with what he says. Remeber it's not just white people that are capable of being racist.

 

[Hengst]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to GREGORY again.

 

[Longhorn85]

But let's not forget the fact that the black community is racist itself and does not exactly encourage their population to do better in becoming more educated and moving up. A lot of blacks have a fear of being ostrecised by other blacks for being too white. IMO Bill cosby is right on the money with what he says. Remeber it's not just white people that are capable of being racist.

True

 

[BO-DEN]

Why is the failure of blacks to succeed and achieve always blamed on white racism?

same reason whites failure to succeed and achieve is blamed on the imigrant or black.

 

[HumorMe]

SELL OUT!!! Just kidding, bro. At 31, and I believe we were both commissioned officers, Longhorn, I can say the same thing. Before and after the Army I have had nothing but successful interviews. I personally attribute that to good parenting and development as a child. ie. How to look a person in the eye when they are speaking to you. Not saying "You know what I'm saying?" every other sentence. Getting knocked upside the back of your head for saying "ummm" all the time like God gave you no good sense. It made a difference in my professional career.

Good post!

Good posts by Longhorn too.

 

[TC2]

I take it you are against affirmative action.

Not meaning to flame, but why?

What kind of jobs have you been interviewed for? You never felt discriminated? Do you think there is no discrimination against black job seekers?

Sincere questions.

You obviously have not been the position where you HAVE TO HIRE a minority no matter if they don't know shit about the job or not.


Try explaining to a very good employee who has worked with you for years that you have to let them go to make room for a minority.

Now sit back and watch as the minority(not that all do) slacks off, comes in late, steals and knows that he /she can always play the race card if you try to fire them.

 

[BO-DEN]

You obviously have not been the position where you HAVE TO HIRE a minority no matter if they don't know shit about the job or not.


Try explaining to a very good employee who has worked with you for years that you have to let them go to make room for a minority.

Now sit back and watch as the minority(not that all do) slacks off, comes in late, steals and knows that he /she can always play the race card if you try to fire them.

i dont agree with afirmitive action either.... but this is a bullshit sterieo type of what affirmitive action is.

all the storys..

its always a hard working good old white guy kicked out into the street to starve to death while the fresh prince of belair takes his spot smoking pot on his lunch break. the company i help run needed more minoritys hired and i interviewed ... not huge positions , personal trainners,teachers, childcare
and i found excellent people to fill the positions.

 

[TC2]

i dont agree with afirmitive action either.... but this is a bullshit sterieo type of what affirmitive action is.

Bullshit my ass....I personally dealt with this shit for over a year.

I had to let go of a good employee with a family simply because he had the least seniority.

This is EXACTLY what happens with affirmitive action, people don't think about the people that get screwed layed off to make room.

Think about how racist that is, you work hard, do a good job, always show up for work and you are fired because someone of a different race gets special treatment.

 

[scriptfactory]

You obviously have not been the position where you HAVE TO HIRE a minority no matter if they don't know shit about the job or not.

Try explaining to a very good employee who has worked with you for years that you have to let them go to make room for a minority.

Now sit back and watch as the minority(not that all do) slacks off, comes in late, steals and knows that he /she can always play the race card if you try to fire them.

Huh? You are a 'tard. Be quiet...

As much as I am against affirmative action racism is still very much a part of employment. In my personal experiences about 1 in 3 job interviews I have went to I felt were in some way guided by a racist mentality.

Example: I went to get a job at Wal*Mart with one of my friends. I was 17yo. We both went in seperately and talked to the personell officer (or whatever she was called). My first two questions were (1)"Have you ever been arrested for a felony or fired from a job for a criminal act?" and (2)"Would you object to a drug test?" My caucasian buddy went in right after me and when he came out I asked him why they cared so much about drugs and crime at Wal*mart. I was wondering if it was such a big thing (in Portland, OR.) It turns out the bitch didn't ask him either question and he was hired on the spot. I had to come back and talk to an assistant manager before I was hired. I have never had a criminal record and didn't smoke weed until I got to Europe where it was legal. Oh, yeah. There were 3 black people who worked at that Wal*Mart. Me, an assistant manager and an old door greeter. I was fired 6 months later for "stealing" a pair of work gloves that someone else had given to me (so I could lift some heavy boxes, NOT take home) and that someone was allowed to keep his job. The gloves never left the building and yet I was stealing them...??

If you think minorities are treated the same as caucasians you are so wrong. People seem to forget about the times that our parents and grandparents lived in. It wasn't so long ago...

 

[Paulos]

umm why would this make white people feel superior?

it shows that when whites are treated like blacks they perform at the same level

What school are you at, SFSU?

 

[BO-DEN]

Bullshit my ass....
This is EXACTLY what happens with affirmitive action, people don't think about the people that get screwed layed off to make room..

i bet the guys name was leroy and he was caught selling crack in the xerox room.

Think about how racist that is, you work hard, do a good job, always show up for work and you are fired because someone of a different race gets special treatment.

i agree the afirmitive action is not the solution

but me as a minority dont have much simpathy about fairness in our countrys system.

i have had to work twice as hard as a white guy to be respected in the workplace in some positions. and always their is this accent of "is he gunna steal" "can i trust this guy" im a very hard working man. that wants all the oppertunitiy being a born american has to offer.

when the shoe is on the other foot its kinda uncomfortable.

 

[danielson]

same reason whites failure to succeed and achieve is blamed on the imigrant or black.

good post...

and script fctory is right...while more people are educted and enlightened enough to see all skin colours are equal and society accepting that as normal it is worth pointing out that 10-20yrs ago it was a very different story. I see racism everyday and the workplace is NO different to anywhere else.

 

[Dial_tone]

You obviously have not been the position where you HAVE TO HIRE a minority no matter if they don't know shit about the job or not.


Try explaining to a very good employee who has worked with you for years that you have to let them go to make room for a minority.

Now sit back and watch as the minority(not that all do) slacks off, comes in late, steals and knows that he /she can always play the race card if you try to fire them.

Maybe you should stop and consider why you're not attracting qualified black applicants. If you KNOW you have to hire minorities and the good candidates aren't coming to you doesn't it make sense to go get them? It's your business that's at stake here. It seems to me that would solve your problem right there.

 

[TC2]

Maybe you should stop and consider why you're not attracting qualified black applicants. If you KNOW you have to hire minorities and the good candidates aren't coming to you doesn't it make sense to go get them? It's your business that's at stake here. It seems to me that would solve your problem right there.

It was when I was a meat dept. manager for a supermarket.

Not much else you can do but put an ad in the paper and wait for skilled people to apply.

My main point is positions were occupied with good workers, I had a full crew that worked with me for years.

If I had an open position and a skilled person of any race or gender applied for it, their race would not matter.

But to make me fire one of my crew and hire whatever minority walked in the door is WRONG.

 

[onebigab]

Maybe you should stop and consider why you're not attracting qualified black applicants. If you KNOW you have to hire minorities and the good candidates aren't coming to you doesn't it make sense to go get them? It's your business that's at stake here. It seems to me that would solve your problem right there.

I have to disagree with you here.

I have a civil service job that only goes out into the minority area of the city and promotes the job. Gives nightly classes for studying with bus vouchers and meal vouchers to and from the classes for the minorities. If this isn't done then the ACLU and the Vulcan Society would be all over your ass and cry foul. This isn't done anywhere else in the city. If anyone else wants the job they'll have to read about it in the paper or come from word of mouth from someone who is on the job already. Is this considered fair and just? This is actually a form of reverse discrimination. Is it not?

How much more needs to be done?

 

[BO-DEN]

This is actually a form of reverse discrimination. Is it not?

well as far as civil service is concerned i know that plenty of minoritys are in iraq right now working real hard they recruit us in high school when we are young and undecided about our future..... iv been to 3 schools and the white schools i went to never had marines in the lunch rooms.

 

[onebigab]

well as far as civil service is concerned i know that plenty of minoritys are in iraq right now working real hard they recruit us in high school when we are young and undecided about our future..... iv been to 3 schools and the white schools i went to never had marines in the lunch rooms.

Well then I guess there are only Blacks and Hispanics over in Iraq getting shot and killed. No Whites though. Huh.

Maybe you were out sick when they had Career Day in the "White schools."

 

[big4rt]

Yup. Just like Bill Cosby has been saying. Guess who criticized the Cos? Liberals.

May I add that my father said in the 70s and 80s what Dr. Cosby recently stated. Therefore, I personally beg this question: "Where was affirmative action for whites in america?" They had none. So, I ask my own people this question: "If we are such a strong race of people, why are we busy creating excuses and waiting for handouts instead of inventing ways to achieve and ACTING ON THEM?" I do not consider myself conservative, however, I believe in a sense of pride and dignity that inspires me to act because I owe it to myself, my wife (a beautiful black woman who is one hell of an active duty Army Officer) and child. Waiting on the government or agencies acting on behalf of to hand me something as if they owe it to me is planning to fail. Black people have already received reparations in the form of affirmative action. I am almost embarrassed to even theorize what we did with it. Now, we are going to rush to the polls in a month and a half to get John Kerry elected because he's supposed to be some resemblance of a savior?

I'm done with this topic. I'm not doing anything but getting angry...

 

[Robert Jan]

Whites do still rule the world for such a huge %. not all racism of course got a fat headstart and simply outnumber the blacks in wealthy countries.

Q: What do you say to a black man with a tie?

A: Two big Mac's and a large diet coke, Please.

hihi. Evil

and I KNOW theres blacks on this board who have done very well for themselves you dont have to come in and tell us and be angry with me its only a joke.

I believe it was Chris Rock who said, finally we have lots of rich black guys in america.
But the problem is theres a difference between rich, and wealthy. Shaq is rich. Wealthy is the white guy who signs his check, and tells him "here you go Shaq, go buy yourself a bouncing car or something'

Rich can be lost in a wild summer and a drug habit. Wealthy is impossible to get rid of. Wealthy goes from generation to generation.

We'd have wealthy blacks if only they had invested something, instead of spending it all on ice and rims.

lol

pretty heavy stuff.

 

[Hengst]

..........the company i help run needed more minoritys hired and .............

And exactly why did the company NEED more minorities? Quotas?

Imagine this:

"............ the company I help run needed more whites hired and ......."

Such a statement would set off a howl of protest from the likes of Jessie Jackson, ADL, SPLC and othes in the 'race industry'. Therefore the NEED to hire minortities is inherently racist and exclusionary. You used race as your first determining factor for the applicants suitability for a job; autom atically excluding a possibly more qualified white.

 

[Hengst]

Huh? You are a 'tard. Be quiet...

As much as I am against affirmative action racism is still very much a part of employment. In my personal experiences about 1 in 3 job interviews I have went to I felt were in some way guided by a racist mentality.

Example: I went to get a job at Wal*Mart with one of my friends. I was 17yo. We both went in seperately and talked to the personell officer (or whatever she was called). My first two questions were (1)"Have you ever been arrested for a felony or fired from a job for a criminal act?" and (2)"Would you object to a drug test?" ...........I was wondering if it was such a big thing ...

Perhaps what you call it a racist mentality is nothing more than a realistic acknowledgement of differenced between the races. It is common knowleged that 30% of all black males between 15 and 29 are somehow invollved in the criminal justice system - either on parole, in jail, pending trial, etc. as opposed to only 3% of the caucasion population.

 

[Hengst]

when the shoe is on the other foot its kinda uncomfortable.

tweo wrongs do not make a right

 

[crew9]

Huh? You are a 'tard. Be quiet...

...

AA isn't all roses and sunshine. Good employees do get fired for less experienced workers to come in. Is that the case in every situation, hell no. It does however happen. If you can't see that or refuse to acknowledge it so be it.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Great thread.. some VERY naive' people here.


Apparently MANY of you have NEVER been outside the US..

If you think people here are Racist .. try ANY other country in the world.

You all need to wake up and realize all humans are racist to some degre.. its HOW we deal with those feelings that separate us from the rest.

Saying your not racist is like saying you dont need to breath air. You ARE racist.. you may have just trained yourself through life experience and social conditioning that everyone is the same blah blah

But they are not. It doenst mean ANYONE is better or worse than anyone else.. or anyone is "superior" (which is the creed of the racist mind) .. it just mean we are different.

Ive been thorugh all this before .. I have fallen into hatred and all that crap.. I know now I was wrong for lookign at it the way I did. I wanted to assign some intangible differebnces some kind of "superiority" but thats impossible to do.

Every "person" brings something to the table.. DO NOT attribute it to cultural differnces that IS unacceptable.. but there are racial differebnces that HAVE to be accounted for.. but I will REPEAT myself.. this does not mean anyone is superior to anyone else.

There are MANY things about the human psyche we do not undertsand.. any many qualities that poeople may have the we cannot quantify.

The average Asian is bbetter than the average white guy at math.. does that mean Asians are better??
The average black is better than the average white in general athletic pursuits.. are they better??
Whites are better than asian at communication skills.. better?

Every race has strengths and weaknesses.. My first calculus instructor was black.. and Im sure many of you hav had Asian communications instructors or Jewish athletic coaches..

there are always excpetions and they are becoming mor common.. yes in most cases a black may have to work a little harder than a white to excel at math.. and in some cases not.. but it KNOWING and FACING these issues that will get us past all the assholes.

Trying to ignore the elephant standing in the living room will NEVER make it go away. True racism is alive and kicking because people refuse to face it head on.. realzie there ARE differences and acccept them That is REAL diversity.

Soemtimes you all try too hard to be politically correct.

 

[Dial_tone]

Perhaps what you call it a racist mentality is nothing more than a realistic acknowledgement of differenced between the races. It is common knowleged that 30% of all black males between 15 and 29 are somehow invollved in the criminal justice system - either on parole, in jail, pending trial, etc. as opposed to only 3% of the caucasion population.

Figures don't lie...but liars do figure. This is at least in part because Congress has determined that crack is a more dangerous drug, it should be punished more severely. The vast majority of people who are convicted of dealing in powder cocaine are white. But they might get a sentence of a few years, two, five, so they might be out of prison relatively soon, compared to a crack cocaine dealer (usually black) who gets 10, 15 years.

Among the more than 2 million offenders incarcerated on June 30, 2002, an estimated 596,400 were black males between ages 20 and 39 (table 13).
"Among males age 25 to 29, 12.9% of blacks were in prison or jail, compared to 4.3% of Hispanics and about 1.6% of whites (table 14).
"Although incarceration rates drop with age, the percentage of black males age 45 to 54 in prison or jail in 2002 was an estimated 3.9% -- more than twice the highest rate (1.7%) among white males (age 30 to 34)."

Source: Harrison, Paige M., & Jennifer Karberg, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2002 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, April 2003), p. 11, Tables 13 & 14.

 

[Dial_tone]

I feel like this thread is undermining my ability to succeed in America.

(snicker)

 

[milo hobgoblin]

LOL Dial Tone.. dont make me call my friends over at "The Man" inc. to keep you down even more than we already have.

Cuz you know us white guys aint got nothing better to do than oppress minorities.

"sorry kids.. we cabt go to the park to day, daddy is too busy trying to keep blacks and such from getting a job"

I think more white people think whites are racist these days than even blacks do.

 

[Carmen]

My dentist is black and i'm hoping i never have to go to another dentist other than him.
not cause he's black and not cause he's my age and lifts weights and has a son the same age as my daughter and not because his office is nice or because he never makes me wait or because i can walk to his office or because he never causes me pain and calls me the next day to see how i'm feeling and knows exactly what to do to solve a problem for me.
i love my dentist because he grew up poor. moved to this country when he was little and lived in a bad neighborhood. he did well in highschool and put himself through dental school and now has his own practice.
and because he's black, i feel like he probably had a harder time at it and MAYBE things weren't handed to him like all the jewish dentists around him and he got to where he is because he's just good and hard working.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

"MAYBE things weren't handed to him like all the jewish dentists around him and he got to where he is because he's just good and hard working."

LOL Milo puts on flame retardant suit..

 

[Carmen]

"MAYBE things weren't handed to him like all the jewish dentists around him and he got to where he is because he's just good and hard working."

LOL Milo puts on flame retardant suit..

lol. relax. i just like the guy.
the suit looks nice on you though.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Ya but you should see me with it off.. oh wait..

LOL.

 

[Razorguns]

I have a lot of good black friends i'd hire in an instant for a job. What's your point?

 

[glennds]

My MAYBE things weren't handed to him like all the jewish dentists around him and he got to where he is because he's just good and hard working.

good to know sugar plum is prejudiced against jews but NOT blacks. wonder if she likes mexicans?

 

[BO-DEN]

You used race as your first determining factor for the applicants suitability for a job; automatically excluding a possibly more qualified white.

when you move to africa where your the minority you will understand.

 

[BO-DEN]

Maybe you were out sick when they had Career Day in the "White schools."

i dont get "sick" and im not talking about any carreer day we didnt have thoes. we just had marines in our lunch room at least 3 times aweek trying to teach us about what an honor it would be to die for haliburton stock prices.

and my point stands that you seem to feel like you are getting a small piece of the american pie and i want to remind you when it comes time to pay for the pie minoritys do thier share..... and diserve the same oppertunity that you have. i dont argue that affirmitive action is not the answer. but reality stands america is far from far or just. and if you satisfy one group you hurt the other.

it anoys me that when ever the issue of affirmitive action comes up its always a super qualified piller of the community that gets robbed by this crack head nigger on wellfair and 20 kidds by 20 differant mothers who is uneducated and a convicted criminal.

black people can be qualified and pillers of the community too

BO-
DEN

 

[crew9]

i dont get "sick" and im not talking about any carreer day we didnt have thoes. we just had marines in our lunch room at least 3 times aweek trying to teach us about what an honor it would be to die for haliburton stock prices.

and my point stands that you seem to feel like you are getting a small piece of the american pie and i want to remind you when it comes time to pay for the pie minoritys do thier share..... and diserve the same oppertunity that you have. i dont argue that affirmitive action is not the answer. but reality stands america is far from far or just. and if you satisfy one group you hurt the other.

it anoys me that when ever the issue of affirmitive action comes up its always a super qualified piller of the community that gets robbed by this crack head nigger on wellfair and 20 kidds by 20 differant mothers who is uneducated and a convicted criminal.

black people can be qualified and pillers of the community too

BO-
DEN

Perhaps your argument would be better served if you spelled some words properly?

 

[BO-DEN]

Perhaps your argument would be better served if you spelled some words properly?

perhaps you would like me to mail you some of my bean bag gravey..its high in protein.. and is good for your skin.

 

[gjohnson5]

I'm 43 yrs old and every job interview that I have ever had has gone extremely well.

Is that why you're in the military??

 

[crew9]

perhaps you would like me to mail you some of my bean bag gravey..its high in protein.. and is good for your skin.

See I knew you had it in you

 

[gregory]

Is that why you're in the military??

Maybe he just likes that life? It sure beats cardiac arrest from a desk job.

 

[gjohnson5]

Yes, I am against affirmative action. Casualb, you need to post a link to that study so we can see who commissioned it. I guarantee that they have an agenda.

Doesn't anyone see the fallacy of this whole premise? You guys are assuming right off the bat that the interviewer is white.

Man where is Russel Simmons when U need him??? To quote Russel , "Where do these guys come from?" Racism is not a fallacy of a figment of your imagination. It's a real living breathing thing. People fought and died, were punished with German Shepards , water hoses, billy clubs, order to move from thier seat in the front of the bus just to have people like this say everything is kewl in 2004.

There's a reason the civil rights act of 1964 was put in place. Maybe yall should read it again.

http://www.eeoc.gov/abouteeo/overview_practices.html

 

[gjohnson5]

But let's not forget the fact that the black community is racist itself and does not exactly encourage their population to do better in becoming more educated and moving up. A lot of blacks have a fear of being ostrecised by other blacks for being too white. IMO Bill cosby is right on the money with what he says. Remeber it's not just white people that are capable of being racist.

How in the world would you know about what happens in the black community?

 

[gjohnson5]

Huh? You are a 'tard. Be quiet...

As much as I am against affirmative action racism is still very much a part of employment. In my personal experiences about 1 in 3 job interviews I have went to I felt were in some way guided by a racist mentality.

Example: I went to get a job at Wal*Mart with one of my friends. I was 17yo. We both went in seperately and talked to the personell officer (or whatever she was called). My first two questions were (1)"Have you ever been arrested for a felony or fired from a job for a criminal act?" and (2)"Would you object to a drug test?" My caucasian buddy went in right after me and when he came out I asked him why they cared so much about drugs and crime at Wal*mart. I was wondering if it was such a big thing (in Portland, OR.) It turns out the bitch didn't ask him either question and he was hired on the spot. I had to come back and talk to an assistant manager before I was hired. I have never had a criminal record and didn't smoke weed until I got to Europe where it was legal. Oh, yeah. There were 3 black people who worked at that Wal*Mart. Me, an assistant manager and an old door greeter. I was fired 6 months later for "stealing" a pair of work gloves that someone else had given to me (so I could lift some heavy boxes, NOT take home) and that someone was allowed to keep his job. The gloves never left the building and yet I was stealing them...??

If you think minorities are treated the same as caucasians you are so wrong. People seem to forget about the times that our parents and grandparents lived in. It wasn't so long ago...

This is nothing more then the story of the big LIE. Once you say a lie and keep repeating it , people start to believe it , no matter how much a load of SHIT it is. Reverse discrimination is a big LIE... I bet that white males control 95% or more of the money in America. I bet white males own atleast 95% of all fortune 500 companies in America. The idea that a few white people not making it is a sign of revese discrimination is total garbage. The idea that racism does not exist and that it had nothing to do with failure of minority , not just black because hispanics in some ways have it worse, people to excel is absolute nonsense. If you joined the military instead of going to college , graduating , and going to get a civilian job, then you are not a good candidate at all to say employment is an equal playing field because you didn't have to fight like the ones of us who did.

As a black man who graduated college with 2 degrees , I didn't take the easy way out and join the military. I decided to use my skills and qualification to FIGHT for a job in the civilian markets. All my interviews have NOT been successful but I have succeded anyway because my COMMUNITY told me to keep fighting , totally unlike some ignorant person who replied and actualy had minority people agree with him :-( if anything I used my anger to land better jobs and not to become angry at some other man who is white and has nothing to do with my personal success or failure.

I have never and will never take an Affirmative Action job. I am 1/4 Cherokee Indian. That side of my families blood was spilled out of greed to the point that whole histories have been lost. All people ask for is for an even shot and there's all this talk about how the civil right bill hasn't helped whites.....

All I have to say to this is WOW. Racism will never die with this going on.

 

[casualbb]

Yes, I am against affirmative action. Casualb, you need to post a link to that study so we can see who commissioned it. I guarantee that they have an agenda.

Doesn't anyone see the fallacy of this whole premise? You guys are assuming right off the bat that the interviewer is white.

The fact that the interviewer is white is the whole point. Let me explain.

The experiment illustrates the self-fulfilling prophecy, that is... when humans are stereotyped against a group and comes to expect certain traits and behaviors... they behave in a way that elicits those behaviors, thus confirming the stereotype in their mind.

So, to apply that to the experiment, whites expected blacks (for some reason or another) to be less capable job candidates. Assuming that, they asked fewer questions, were less personable, and ended the interview sooner. The blacks, unsurprisingly, were independently rated as worse candidates.

But when they applied the same uninterested interviewing behavior to whites, whites were rated just as poorly.

The experiment concluded that race is inconsequential, and the poor performance that correlates with being black is a result of racist behavior on the part of the interviewer.

I don't have a link but the experiment was conducted by the department of psychology at a major university. Not the democratic party, if that's what you're trying to imply.

 

[Carmen]

good to know sugar plum is prejudiced against jews but NOT blacks. wonder if she likes mexicans?

dork, my family is jewish.
like, my mother and father.

 

[crew9]

dork, my family is jewish.
like, my mother and father.

OMG YOU HATE YOUR PARENTS YOU BITCH!!!!

 

[Carmen]

OMG YOU HATE YOUR PARENTS YOU BITCH!!!!

lol. hardly.
mom's my best friend and i mourn the loss of my dad every day.
my grandparents are all jewish too. i love all of them.
I'm not jewish by choice, but being jewish is a religion, not a color. and to whomever said i probably hate mexicans-
...my half brothers are half mexican (their mom was mexican, my dad was a mongolian jew). i almost adopted them. so before you go accusing anyone of anything, use your brain.

 

[glennds]

call me a dork, but don't call me late for dinner. you gotta admit, sugarplum, your post came off kinda bad even if you didn't mean it to be. maybe you just worded it that way unintentionally. anyhow, karma to you and a slap on the wrist for me.

regardless, even people from well off backgrounds, jews or nonjews, gotta bust ass to make it into medical or dental school, and make it through with good grades. it ain't easy building a practice either.

unlike president bush, not all people coast thru life thanks to daddy.

 

[Carmen]

call me a dork, but don't call me late for dinner. you gotta admit, sugarplum, your post came off kinda bad even if you didn't mean it to be. maybe you just worded it that way unintentionally. anyhow, karma to you and a slap on the wrist for me.

regardless, even people from well off backgrounds, jews or nonjews, gotta bust ass to make it into medical or dental school, and make it through with good grades it ain't easy building a practice either.

of course not- i wasn't putting any one group down, just saying that although i love my dentist for lots of reasons, i also know he had to bust his ass for what he's got.
sorry i called you a dork, i'm a dork too.

 

[crew9]

lol. hardly.
mom's my best friend and i mourn the loss of my dad every day.
my grandparents are all jewish too. i love all of them.
I'm not jewish by choice, but being jewish is a religion, not a color. and to whomever said i probably hate mexicans-
...my half brothers are half mexican (their mom was mexican, my dad was a mongolian jew). i almost adopted them. so before you go accusing anyone of anything, use your brain.

i assumed you realized i was being sarcastic

 

[Carmen]

i assumed you realized i was being sarcastic

yes, i did. i just wanted to make it clear that my family is diverse and i love them.
i'm a redheaded mongolian russian (2 great grandparents were mongolian, 2 were russian) girl who was born jewish and has half mexican brothers and i have a black girls butt.
i have no room for prejudice.

 

[gregory]

How in the world would you know about what happens in the black community?

You have to stop prejudging. Maybe i grew up in it? Maybe i am black? Or perhaps half black? Your comment was pointless.

 

[gregory]

This is nothing more then the story of the big LIE. Once you say a lie and keep repeating it , people start to believe it , no matter how much a load of SHIT it is. Reverse discrimination is a big LIE... I bet that white males control 95% or more of the money in America. I bet white males own atleast 95% of all fortune 500 companies in America. The idea that a few white people not making it is a sign of revese discrimination is total garbage. The idea that racism does not exist and that it had nothing to do with failure of minority , not just black because hispanics in some ways have it worse, people to excel is absolute nonsense. If you joined the military instead of going to college , graduating , and going to get a civilian job, then you are not a good candidate at all to say employment is an equal playing field because you didn't have to fight like the ones of us who did.

As a black man who graduated college with 2 degrees , I didn't take the easy way out and join the military. I decided to use my skills and qualification to FIGHT for a job in the civilian markets. All my interviews have NOT been successful but I have succeded anyway because my COMMUNITY told me to keep fighting , totally unlike some ignorant person who replied and actualy had minority people agree with him :-( if anything I used my anger to land better jobs and not to become angry at some other man who is white and has nothing to do with my personal success or failure.

I have never and will never take an Affirmative Action job. I am 1/4 Cherokee Indian. That side of my families blood was spilled out of greed to the point that whole histories have been lost. All people ask for is for an even shot and there's all this talk about how the civil right bill hasn't helped whites.....

All I have to say to this is WOW. Racism will never die with this going on.

And here you found the key to being sucesfull in life. You worked hard, busted your ass and got educated, then you busted your ass some more and are making it. It's the same song and dance just about everyone has to perform to get ahead in life, no matter if you'r white, black, yellow or brown. It's just that some figure this out quicker then others, others still don't have to figure it out because their parents figure it out for them and point them in the right direction from the start. You should be proud of your accomplishments as a man, not (insert color here) man.

 

[gjohnson5]

You have to stop prejudging. Maybe i grew up in it? Maybe i am black? Or perhaps half black? Your comment was pointless.

Why don't you reread you own words...
But let's not forget the fact that the black community is racist itself and does not exactly encourage their population to do better in becoming more educated and moving up. A lot of blacks have a fear of being ostrecised by other blacks for being too white. IMO Bill cosby is right on the money with what he says. Remeber it's not just white people that are capable of being racist.

You gave yourself away. Why would a person of that ethnicity say "thier population"??? You have no clue of what the HELL you are talking about

 

[gjohnson5]

And here you found the key to being sucesfull in life. You worked hard, busted your ass and got educated, then you busted your ass some more and are making it. It's the same song and dance just about everyone has to perform to get ahead in life, no matter if you'r white, black, yellow or brown. It's just that some figure this out quicker then others, others still don't have to figure it out because their parents figure it out for them and point them in the right direction from the start. You should be proud of your accomplishments as a man, not (insert color here) man.

Your comment assume that a whole race of people don't work hard. Therefore you are one generalizing and prejudging people. The fact that two so called black people agreed with you is the sickening part. My dad and most all my uncles are enlisted in the armed forces. None of them were ever brainwashed into thinking thier own people are just lazy and stupid....

 

[gregory]

Why don't you reread you own words...
But let's not forget the fact that the black community is racist itself and does not exactly encourage their population to do better in becoming more educated and moving up. A lot of blacks have a fear of being ostrecised by other blacks for being too white. IMO Bill cosby is right on the money with what he says. Remeber it's not just white people that are capable of being racist.

You gave yourself away. Why would a person of that ethnicity say "thier population"??? You have no clue of what the HELL you are talking about

What makes you think i wrote what i wrote in first person? You're prejudging me based on what? The fact that i used the word "their" instead or "our", give me a break. No matter how much education you accomplish in life you will always be consumed with anger, it will cloud your judgement and in effect keep you down below the glass ceiling of life's accomplishments. So, stop being so sensitive about irrelevant things. You will always find in life and others exactly what you look for and expect to find, think about that. Let it go, we're all part of the same human race. God bless.

 

[gregory]

Your comment assume that a whole race of people don't work hard. Therefore you are one generalizing and prejudging people. The fact that two so called black people agreed with you is the sickening part. My dad and most all my uncles are enlisted in the armed forces. None of them were ever brainwashed into thinking thier own people are just lazy and stupid....

Let's see, hard work is carrying bricks. Hard work is picking cotton as well, how about farming, is that hard work as well? When a whole "race of people" works as slaves, do they work hard? Of course they do, but your anger is consuming you once again and you don't want to see the point that i was REALLLY making. You're nit picking and being difficult on purpose.

Peace.

 

[gjohnson5]

What makes you think i wrote what i wrote in first person? You're prejudging me based on what? The fact that i used the word "their" instead or "our", give me a break. No matter how much education you accomplish in life you will always be consumed with anger, it will cloud your judgement and in effect keep you down below the glass ceiling of life's accomplishments. So, stop being so sensitive about irrelevant things. You will always find in life and others exactly what you look for and expect to find, think about that. Let it go, we're all part of the same human race. God bless.

I should desensitize myself to your racism??? I should allow you to make bigotted comments? I should allow you to bash me and my families name by saying my community doesnt support the causes of thier own people??

Here's an excerpt from Malcolm X: "Message To The Grass Roots"

Just as the slavemaster of that day used Tom, the house Negro, to keep the field Negroes in check, the same old slavemaster today has Negroes who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms, 20th century Uncle Toms, to keep you and me in check, keep us under control, keep us passive and peaceful and nonviolent. That's Tom making you nonviolent. It's like when you go to the dentist, and the man's going to take your tooth. You're going to fight him when he starts pulling. So he squirts some stuff in your jaw called novocaine, to make you think they're not doing anything to you. So you sit there and 'cause you've got all of that novocaine in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Blood running all down your jaw, and you don't know what's happening. 'Cause someone has taught you to suffer -- peacefully.

Therefore I will attack racism whenever it comes in my crosshairs. I will not just sit back "passively" and allow you to bash me and my family as if you personally know them. I have worked too hard and so has my community to just sit back and let morons like you poison thier name. And I hope all minority people would stand up for themselves and contribute to thier own upliftment.

 

[gregory]

Nuff said. Have a nice life.

 

[Longhorn85]

People fought and died, were punished with German Shepards , water hoses, billy clubs, order to move from thier seat in the front of the bus just to have people like this say everything is kewl in 2004.

[/url]

MLK: "...not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

If Russell Simmons and affirmative action pushing liberals like you have their way we'll never get there.

 

[BO-DEN]

See I knew you had it in you

i love getting the last word



ready for it?


w0rd

 

[BO-DEN]

If Russell Simmons and affirmative action pushing liberals like you have their way we'll never get there.

and if your self hating ass had yours we would all be like your hero oj simpson.... lol no thanks bro. he could try and try no matter how much golf he played and how many white women he had no matter how hard he did his dance for the big dogs in this country that acually make decisions. at the end of the day he was just a nigger.

 

[onebigab]

it anoys me that when ever the issue of affirmitive action comes up its always a super qualified piller of the community that gets robbed by this crack head nigger on wellfair and 20 kidds by 20 differant mothers who is uneducated and a convicted criminal.

black people can be qualified and pillers of the community too

BO-
DEN

You hit the nail on the head with this statement. But race does play a huge role. This is where the problem lies.

I couldn't give a fuck what color you are "I want the most qualified person" to do the job.

 

[onebigab]

yes, i did. i just wanted to make it clear that my family is diverse and i love them.
i'm a redheaded mongolian russian (2 great grandparents were mongolian, 2 were russian) girl who was born jewish and has half mexican brothers and i have a black girls butt.
i have no room for prejudice.

So in other words your just as fucked up as everyone else.

 

[onebigab]

None of them were ever brainwashed into thinking thier own people are just lazy and stupid....

It isn't just the Blacks my friend. All races do have them. Ex: lazy and stupid.....

 

[gregory]

at the end of the day he was just a nigger.

maybe to you sir, maybe to you.

 

[casualbb]

MLK: "...not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

If Russell Simmons and affirmative action pushing liberals like you have their way we'll never get there.

dude respond to my post

Oh and I'm a liberal and think affirmative action is stupid. It treats the symptom, not the disease

 

[kcpmeo22]

Big ups to gjohnson! I couldn't agree more... I wish I could have gotten to this thread a lil earlier.

 

[gjohnson5]

Big ups to gjohnson! I couldn't agree more... I wish I could have gotten to this thread a lil earlier.

I apologize , As U can see I sometimes let stupid stuff get me riled up.

Hey man , U never got back with me on icq or aim...

 

[gjohnson5]

dude respond to my post

Oh and I'm a liberal and think affirmative action is stupid. It treats the symptom, not the disease

I think treating things symptomatically because the cure does not exist is OK. As you've witnessed , there is no cure for racism. Everyone definition is different. Everyone sensitivity is different. I'm sure Gregory thinks he's said nothing wrong, whereas I think he's a total bigot. Gregory thinks I'm too sensitive, whereas I think I'm right on the money. Until the sympoms of the disease are gone , treating this symptomatically is the only way, as a cure does not exist.

 

[gjohnson5]

It isn't just the Blacks my friend. All races do have them. Ex: lazy and stupid.....

I never agreed with Gregory cause I was to into verbally whoppin his ass , but yes you 2 are right. There are bad apples in every bunch. But when people who are on the outside looking in say that all the apples are bad is nonsense.

 

[Hengst]

I think treating things symptomatically because the cure does not exist is OK. As you've witnessed , there is no cure for racism. ............... treating this symptomatically is the only way, as a cure does not exist.

Racism only exists in a multiracial society.

And there are ALWAYS solutions to every problem. You just may not like them.

 

[Mandinka2]

Racism only exists in a multiracial society.

And there are ALWAYS solutions to every problem. You just may not like them.

Are you actually in Holland right now man ? What's goin on there right now with the fugees ?

 

[gjohnson5]

Racism only exists in a multiracial society.

And there are ALWAYS solutions to every problem. You just may not like them.

You need more schooling.... If you had studied more math and science you would know that all problems DO NOT have solutions. So your first statment is just ignroant.

Ignorance is atleast 1/2 the problem

I would agree with you that Ignorance is a problem that can be solved. Maybe we should just put all the ignorant people on a boat in the artic circle and sink it....

As far as people not liking the solution, well a civil rights bill was passed. People fought and died , police brutality , national guard and the whole nine yards. I find that debating these people and showing that they are just idiots seems to get te point across. The other 1/2 of the problem... Well people can say what they want to say in thier homes or in thier personal conversation. Maybe you are advocation the boat solution???