Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply puritysourcelabs US-PHARMACIES
UGL OZ Raptor Labs UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAKUS-PHARMACIESRaptor Labs

Question on madcow's dual factor 5x5

L

lschmidt

New member
I have been training for awhile, but haven't done 5x5. I am going to start madcows version of the dual factor 5x5. Here are my questions though:

For the volume phase, it consists of 5x5 sets and 1x5 sets where 5x5 is with a certain weight for all of the sets, and 1x5 means pyramid to the target weight.

Are you supposed to increment the working weight (for 5x5) and target weight (1x5) each week? Like say each week, add 5 lbs to those, and by the 4th and 5th week (I am doing 5 weeks of volume, not 4) you should be setting personal records in those lifts?

Ex: Let's say your target weight is 225 for the pyramid in bench press. Would you start week 1 with say 215 as your target weight, week 2 do 220, week 3 do 225, week do 230, and week 5 do 235 as your target weight in the pyramid sets?

Is this correct?

Link to routine: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4764723&postcount=381
 
Yep, that's pretty much correct.

However, whilst it's nice to set PRs, the point of the volume phase is the volume. This will get you fitter, but it incurs fatigue. In the intensity phase, you release the fatigue by reducing the volume, but you keep the extra fitness, which you use to set PRs. This is my simplified take on it, but I think it's accurate.

If you were doing a 4 week volume phase, you'd hit your existing PRs in week 3 and hopefully you'd break your PRs in week 4. By week 4, you'll be pretty drained, loaded to the gills and will need to deload. There won't be any point trying to get even more loaded. The focus then will be on releasing the fatigue and using your extra fitness to set PRs in the intensity phase. So, I'd suggest a four week volume phase. If you really wanted to spread it over 5 weeks, have 3 build up weeks and aim to set PRs in week 4.

Looking at the weights you used as an example, I'd probably lower the weights of the earlier weeks - something like 195, 210, 225, 235. Week 1 should be a walk in the park to prepare you, week 2 moderate, week 3 PRs and week 4 hell.
 
You want to get an idea of what weight you can do for 5 reps before you start(say 215lbs). You want to hit that weight at about your 3rd week. The first two weeks should be pretty easy. The 3rd week you should shoot to hit your previous 5 rep maxes or a little more. From there you hit PR on week 4 say 220 or 225 for 5. The 5th week you do what ever you did for weight on week 4, but only 3 sets of 3. On the 6th week, up the weights a bit week till the 9th (final) week. You should get a good idea of what you want to hit on your final week by week 4 or so, so set that weight for wek 9 and increment up till you get there. If you fail a set, then just use the same weight the next workout.
 
I am sorta perplexed on the difference between the volume and intensity phases. Could someone please let an example....

like weeks 1-4: volume phase, do this...

weeks 5-8: intensity phase, do this...

8-10: deload, do this...

I am sure this in covered in the main 5x5 thread, but I have been searching for 30mins and I still can not find the answer I need. Thanks for any input.
 
Micker said:
You want to get an idea of what weight you can do for 5 reps before you start(say 215lbs). You want to hit that weight at about your 3rd week. The first two weeks should be pretty easy. The 3rd week you should shoot to hit your previous 5 rep maxes or a little more. From there you hit PR on week 4 say 220 or 225 for 5. The 5th week you do what ever you did for weight on week 4, but only 3 sets of 3. On the 6th week, up the weights a bit week till the 9th (final) week. You should get a good idea of what you want to hit on your final week by week 4 or so, so set that weight for wek 9 and increment up till you get there. If you fail a set, then just use the same weight the next workout.
Click to expand...

On the first week on the intensity phase(week 6), should you use the same weight you use on week 4(volume phase) and week 5(deload)? Or shuld you back off a little on week 6?

Fore example...

week 4: 225(new PR)
week 5: use 225, but for 3x3
week 6: ??

Also, should your target weight for 1x5 and 5x5 be different? I think so, but I just want to make sure? So if my target weight for 5x5 is 220, what would be a good target weight for 1x5?

Thanks.
 
Generally you'd ramp the weights up from this point.

If you have relevant maxes for 3x3 and 1x3 you aim to hit them in week 8 then best them in week 9.

If you're totally beat still after your deload week, you can keep the weights the same for weeks 5 and 6. Like MC2 said- it's not set in stone but it's good to just follow it and learn as you go.

IMO you should start running it, start a journal on here and you'll get through it no problem.
 
Week 5 you use the same weights as week 4 except 3x3/1x3. You also cut out the wed. squats all together. Week 6 you should up the weights a bit from week 4 and continue to up them till you finish in week 9 and hit your goal weight for 3. Take week 5 real easy, as you want to deload enough.

There are two different intensity phases. One is to do only 2 workouts a week cutting the Fri. workout out. The other is to do 3 days, like you were doing. I did the 3 days and I am fine so far. If you are hurting, then you can do only 2 workouts on the 5th deload week. Take an extra day where needed, you don't want to load again. You really shouldn't be hitting failure on any set till the last week really I don't believe. If you plan it perfectly then you can add weight each week and not fail at all. First time through, just go on the side of lighter if there is a question.
 
I figured out my 5 RM's for all my lifts this week.

5 rep maxes:
-squat: 220lbs
-bench: 170
-deadlifts: 245
-row: 135
-chins: BW+15
-overhead press 110

Now if somebody would please help me estimate where I should start for week 1 I would really appreciate it. What confuses me is how to differenate the weight to use for a 1x5 day. vs a 5x5 day. Like if I used X weight for a 1x5 day what weight should I use for a 5x5 day. For example...


week 1

mon:
squat(do this weight)
bench(do this weight)
row(do this weight)

wed:
squat(do this weight)
deadlifts(do this weight)
overhead press(do this weight)
chins(do this weight)

fri:
squat(do this weight)
bench(do this weight)
row(do this weight)

I would like to see some numbers kinda like in this post...

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4652618&postcount=211

Thanks so much for any help.
 
You won't be able to do 5x5 with the same weight as your 5RM, so the 5x5 weight is going to be a bit less. How much less is probably quite individual, so just make a guess. Plug those weights into week 3. Work back for weeks 2 and 1. Add a bit for week 4.

For example, your squat 5RM is 220, so something like

squat 1x5 ..... 190 .... 205 .... 220 ... 230
squat 5x5 ..... 170 .... 190 .... 205 ... 215

Do the same for bench and rows. Remember it's 5x5 for deads and press. Just play pullups by ear. You'll be pretty exhausted by the end of the Wednesday workout ;)
 
anotherbutters said:
You won't be able to do 5x5 with the same weight as your 5RM, so the 5x5 weight is going to be a bit less. How much less is probably quite individual, so just make a guess. Plug those weights into week 3. Work back for weeks 2 and 1. Add a bit for week 4.

For example, your squat 5RM is 220, so something like

squat 1x5 ..... 190 .... 205 .... 220 ... 230
squat 5x5 ..... 170 .... 190 .... 205 ... 215

Do the same for bench and rows. Remember it's 5x5 for deads and press. Just play pullups by ear. You'll be pretty exhausted by the end of the Wednesday workout ;)
Click to expand...


thanks that helps a lot.

so for 5x5 squat i will not exceed my current 5 RM. but how about for 5x5 bench, rows, and deadlifts? should i try to exceed my current 5 RM? or just do this for 1x5?
 
To be honest, your weights are pretty similar to mine and I'm making great progress on the single factor. If you've been lifting less than a couple of years and can still make gains by throwing a little bit more on the bar each week, try the SF rather than DF. It'll be quicker. I don't expect to have to use the DF until my weights are quite a lot higher.

To answer your question, the purpose of the first four weeks is to get the volume in, not to set PRs. It's important to get all the reps in, even if it means dropping the weight a little. The aim is to set PRs in weeks 8/9, when you're doing much less volume and you've recovered from the fatigue built up in the first four weeks.

The weights used for the 5x5 and 1x5 can go up independently. You might find that you're happy to add 10lb to your 1x5 squat one week, but only 5lb to your 5x5 squat because it's burying you. Doing a 5x5 with the previous week's 1x5 weight isn't indicative of anything useful.

Give some thought to the single factor 5x5 though. If you don't need to load up and deload to get stronger, there's no point doing it as it'll only slow you down.

Single factor: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15
 
anotherbutters said:
To be honest, your weights are pretty similar to mine and I'm making great progress on the single factor. If you've been lifting less than a couple of years and can still make gains by throwing a little bit more on the bar each week, try the SF rather than DF. It'll be quicker. I don't expect to have to use the DF until my weights are quite a lot higher.

To answer your question, the purpose of the first four weeks is to get the volume in, not to set PRs. It's important to get all the reps in, even if it means dropping the weight a little. The aim is to set PRs in weeks 8/9, when you're doing much less volume and you've recovered from the fatigue built up in the first four weeks.

The weights used for the 5x5 and 1x5 can go up independently. You might find that you're happy to add 10lb to your 1x5 squat one week, but only 5lb to your 5x5 squat because it's burying you. Doing a 5x5 with the previous week's 1x5 weight isn't indicative of anything useful.

Give some thought to the single factor 5x5 though. If you don't need to load up and deload to get stronger, there's no point doing it as it'll only slow you down.

Single factor: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15
Click to expand...

thanks for the great and honest feeback.

i have been giving it some thought and after talking to a few people i trust i decided to go with the SF version. hopefully this will help me keep pushing my strength up quicker. again, thanks for the help. i am gonna start a journal tommorow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Richard Brown
Napsgear Why The New Food Pyramid Triggered Everyone on the Internet
Replies
5
Views
485
Ulter
Ulter
Richard Brown
Napsgear Why The New Food Pyramid Triggered Everyone on the Internet
Replies
5
Views
469
ceo
ceo
eazy_
Bodybuilding Is Research on Yourself
Replies
0
Views
158
eazy_
eazy_
~Vision~
PSL Sale DUAL ACTION: Summer Cutting cycle oral BLEND. Var-30mg/Stanazolol-20mg
Replies
9
Views
1K
Macedog24
Macedog24
~Vision~
PSL Sale DUAL ACTION: Summer Cutting cycle oral BLEND. Var-30mg/Stanazolol-20mg
Replies
28
Views
2K
Macedog24
Macedog24
Top Bottom