Question for strongmen and massers......

[The Shadow]

Since it has been proven that certain exercise affect certain parts of the muscle, as strongmen, would it not be prudent to focus on developing the muscle to it's maximum extent??

In other words - shouldn't you try to be stong on more exercises that just the classic "mass builders"???


Just curious....

 

[MohawkMuscle]

Isnt this what most people do anyways?

Try to strive to add more weight to all their exercises.

 

[gymtime]

Might have better luck on the Powerlifting board.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Cornholio - you are reading way too much into what you have read in "Muscle Meets Magnet" IMO. Assuming it's even accurate.

 

[deathonthefield]

strongmen focus more on strength in core lifts because that is particularly what u use when doing an event. The main mass builders as u call them are what the events are based on such as deadlift, squat, all these basic core exercises are what helps to add to ur events. See the difference is that a strongman does event training which is really intense, so when ur in the gym u dont want to overtrain ur muscles by doing several exercises, u can only hit the core exercises. You want to get the most bang for ur buck when lifting, so of course u stick to compound movements which have the best turnover rate to teh actual events. A push press or overhead press is much more relevant than a front raise when lifting , in fact front raises r pretty useless when training strongman style, as are many other isolationist movements. Its because 1)they have low turnover rates to the actual events 2)the strongman does not want to overtrain

 

[deathonthefield]

also if u are real strong in the core lifts, you are usually strong in teh auxilliary. If you can military press 315 pounds for reps, chances are ur front raise is up there too, just like if u can do pullups with 3 45's attached to u, then u will have a huge lat pulldown. If you concentrate on the core exercises, then the rest will fall into place

 

[b fold the truth]

Since it has been proven that certain exercise affect certain parts of the muscle, as strongmen, would it not be prudent to focus on developing the muscle to it's maximum extent??

In other words - shouldn't you try to be stong on more exercises that just the classic "mass builders"???


Just curious....

You know...I understand a bit of what you are saying.

Example: Flat Bench Press. I try to keep a decent amount of strength on the flat bench press but it serves no function in strongman. I do it with a close grip so that it helps with my overhead press.

Do I want to have a strong tric press down? It really doesn't matter to tell the truth. I want the most bang for my buck in the gym...the most efficient means to getting better and stronger on my events. If an exercise doesn't make me stronger on an event...then why do it? If I can do one exercise that will make several muscles stronger which pertain to an event...or I can do the one exercise that only strengthens one muscle...I take the more complex more efficient exercise every time.

For my first contest I tried to focus on getting stronger on every single exercise that I could find...and it failed. Events are a total body exercise...my gym lifts should be the same way...total body.

Hope this helps and answers some of your questions.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

cool.

Like the leg extension - no other leg exercise hits the quads themselves?? as hard as le. LE = bigger stronger quads = bigger squat...yes...no?

 

[deathonthefield]

perfect exercise for quads in my opinion would be front squats, i think it hits the quads more. Also by doing isolation exercises such as that ur not really training ur body to be used as one big part, rather as several parts independant of each other. If u take someone with a real strong front squat and squat they will be able to rack the leg extension machine for reps without a great challenge. So in my opinion it is wasted time and energy because ur body will already be taxed from events and also from ur heavy core exercises. In bodybuilding and various other sports u are going for the look or strength in a certain bodypart, and thats cool and thats why all the auxiliaries are needed, but for strongman the events are the main thing and the cores are teh auxiliaries, u kno what im sayin? like for strongmen the events are what ur squat and dead would be considered, and for us are core exercises like squat and dead are what ur auxillaries would be.
dont kno if it makes a lot of sense tho, i hope it does

 

[b fold the truth]

The events are our core exercises and the squat and the dead are our auxilliaries...yes...good thought.

The leg extension doesn't build the squat...the squat shouldn't be a lot of quad anyway. The quad doesn't exactly extend in the same manner in a leg extension as it does in a squat either. Pull throughs, gm's, rev hypers, etc...strengthen the squat more than anything.

B True

 

[the People's Champ]

pull through's are the exercises where you are pulling a cable/band from behind you between your legs while erecting the upper body?

 

[b fold the truth]

Yes.

I have a mpeg of me doing them...mostly incorrectly as Hannibal is pointing out to me..lol...but I can email it to you.

B True

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Can I ask a dumb question... how can anything be better for building a bigger squat than more squatting? Is it because of sticking points?

 

[b fold the truth]

The GM really helps build the hams, glutes, and lower back. I do squats for speed on one day and an aux exercise on another...I get the reps and practice on my squats...and he benefit of doing the auxillary stuff.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

Ok - rephrase.


Since MRI analysis shows that the quads are moderately involved in squatting, why would you not do aux work specifically for them ie - leg extensions......

Do you think that the gains would not beneficial when other exercises such as front squats would be your preference(which activate the quads as well)?

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Does it become a safety issue? Some people have trouble doing heavy weights on the leg extension.

Also, perhaps because a front squat is more similar neurologically to other "real world" movements, there might be more crossover in regards to the actual events.

Otherwise, your logic sounds like a good one to me, but I must point out that is does contradict in some ways your thoughts in regards to your Muscle Meets Magnet related theories. If certain excersises train only certain parts of the muscle, doing the leg extension (for example) wouldn't really be as helpful in producing a bigger squat. It seems your question goes against your supposition.

 

[The Shadow]

If certain excersises train only certain parts of the muscle, doing the leg extension (for example) wouldn't really be as helpful in producing a bigger squat. It seems your question goes against your supposition.

....actually it would as the mri shows that the quads are indeed activated in the squat process. What is the best direct hit for the quads - Extensions. So my thinking is that doing them would have to help the squat numbers go up, especially as most stongmen do not do them at all......

 

[MarshallPenniford]

right, but what I'm saying is, what if the areas hit by the leg ext are different than the areas hit by the squat?

 

[The Shadow]

right, but what I'm saying is, what if the areas hit by the leg ext are different than the areas hit by the squat?

3 of the 4 quad muscles are hit by the squat......all 4 are hit by the extensions....

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your theory. I thought you were of the opinion that you could work specific parts of a muscle or muscle head to a significant degree to force some sort of localized adaptation. For example, the "inner chest", or declines for the "lower chest". Do I have your take on this wrong?

 

[The Shadow]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your theory. I thought you were of the opinion that you could work specific parts of a muscle or muscle head to a significant degree to force some sort of localized adaptation. For example, the "inner chest", or declines for the "lower chest". Do I have your take on this wrong?

Certain exercises hit particular areas of the target muscle - yes.

Ex - French press hits mainly long head of triceps...decline nose breakers hit all three heads...etc....

leg extensions hit areas of the quads that are also involved in squatting. Most pl'ers do not do extensions...my question is why not....when it has bveen shown that the extensions will strengthen the quad muscles which will build a bigger squat...

 

[b fold the truth]

Louie Simmons threw his leg extension machine out in the front parking lot and has never allowed it back in his gym.

The quads are used in the squat to a degree...but not in the strength squat. The olympic squat is highly a quad exercise but I feel that there are other movements that would aid more in quad strength development than the leg extension. The hack squat, front squat, and elevated heel squat would strengthen your squat more than the leg extension.

It is all about finding the exercise that is most efficient towards your goals. If you want to increase your squats...you do not need to spend time doing leg extensions...you need to be doing Goodmornings, rev hypers, glute ham calf raises and maybe some other type of "quad" squat if you are lacking in quad recruitment.

Chuck V squatted 1025 at 220lbs I believe...and he doesn't do leg extensions, probably for a good reason.

 

[The Shadow]

Fold - I understand where you are coming from...but the question still remains...no other exercise hits the quads as effectively as extensions...not hacks, front squats, etc.....quads are still involved in the power/lifting squat. Why shy away from extensions specifically??

 

[frorider6]

My take on this - In a perfect world, we'd be able to train every muscle and every muscle combination all day long without overtraining. But we can't. There has to be tradeoffs.

I think a person's training regimine needs overall balance, with an emphasis on what you're training for. I'm going for more bodybuilder goals at the moment but I won't ignore the powerlift moves like squats and deadlifts. I probably won't do a lot of Farmer's Walks and log carries right now as they just won't fit into my routine. I also wouldn't expect a powerlifter to do a lot of machine work such as leg extensions.

I do think that there are many exercises that need to be rotated into one's training but may not have a permenant place.

My example:
Should a powerlifter do leg extensions? I believe he should, but more as a rotation thing to keep the muscle guessing and to polish them off after a hard leg session. I wouldn't prioritize it though.

 

[b fold the truth]

I think that most powerlifters do hip belt squats if they feel that they need to bring up their quad strength.

I have never felt that doing leg extensions of any sort would help a squat. That is similar to saying that a tric kick back will help to bring up your flat bench. It might....but you could do other exercises that would do it more.

The squat uses so many different muscles just to do the exercise properly. If I am looking for an exercise to increase my squat and I have to choose between the leg extension or any other type of squat...I pick the other exercise everytime because it will have the greatest carry over. The quads go through a different type of movement in a squat than they do in the leg extension...it does not serve the functional purpose needed to improve the squat.

I think that more people fail on a squat because of their hips, hams, and back strength...not because of quad strength. Why spend time training the least limiting factor?

Lots of people focus on exercises that are for the muscles that they can see. The main focus of a lot of people are the shoulders, bic, chest, abs, and quads. The strength comes from the tric, rear delts, back, erectors, glutes, hams, and calves...those are the limiting factors...so focus on them.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

I got it.

Your contention is that the quads are not really activated during the grunt part of the lift - ie - bottom thru midrange and only come into play duing lock-out which is the strongest range anyway...

Correct?



Props to Arioch.

 

[I'D RATHER BE DEADLIFTING]

Frorider- why would a powerlifter want to "polish" off his quads after a lower body session? That is ridiculous.

 

[The Shadow]

Frorider- why would a powerlifter want to "polish" off his quads after a lower body session? That is ridiculous.

...an increaded pump correltae quite well to increased growth