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Question for Nelson Montana?
- Thread starter sam579
- Start date
There are a lot of factors involved here -- prior experience, age, weight, etc. But if we're talking hypothetically, I can concoct a perfect "Steroids For Health" cycle for you.
Here goes:
Week one
Day 1...sus 250
Day 3...primo 100
Day 5...primo 100
Day 7...primo 100
25 mgs of d-bol a day (And as much protein as you can stuff in your face)
Week two
Day 8... 100 mgs cyp or enanthate
Day 10...primo 100
Day 12....primo 100
Day 14...primo 100
25 mgs winny a day
Week three
Day 15 ...primo 100
Day 17...primo 100
Day 19...primo 100
Day 21...primo 100
25 mgs of Oxandrolone a day
Follow with 25 mgs of proviron AM, for five days.
Post cycle include Maca, Avena Sativa, extra Arginine and Epimedium. If estrogen is a problem (although I can't imagine it would be ) take DIM and Calcium D Glucarate.
NO CLOMID!
This isn't convenient and it isn't cheap. But it will produce the most permanent possible gains with the least possible suppression.
P.S. How about making this a sticky so I won't have to answer this question another 100 times?
Good luck and happy trails!
Here goes:
Week one
Day 1...sus 250
Day 3...primo 100
Day 5...primo 100
Day 7...primo 100
25 mgs of d-bol a day (And as much protein as you can stuff in your face)
Week two
Day 8... 100 mgs cyp or enanthate
Day 10...primo 100
Day 12....primo 100
Day 14...primo 100
25 mgs winny a day
Week three
Day 15 ...primo 100
Day 17...primo 100
Day 19...primo 100
Day 21...primo 100
25 mgs of Oxandrolone a day
Follow with 25 mgs of proviron AM, for five days.
Post cycle include Maca, Avena Sativa, extra Arginine and Epimedium. If estrogen is a problem (although I can't imagine it would be ) take DIM and Calcium D Glucarate.
NO CLOMID!
This isn't convenient and it isn't cheap. But it will produce the most permanent possible gains with the least possible suppression.
P.S. How about making this a sticky so I won't have to answer this question another 100 times?
Good luck and happy trails!
On Nelsons behalf, you have to realize he is all for safe, low inhibition cycles where slow, steady more permanent weight gains are the goal. Im not taking sides here at all but I do so an awefull lot of guys looking to gain 15-20 in 20 weeks and it just inst very safe or realistic unless you pretty new to training.DRRman said:
Im not neslon but I would bet because the sust has multiple ester, long and short so will kick in a bit quicker than if you had just used cyp/enth. The once a week injections are because its not really practicle to try and shoot 33mg 3x a week when your gear is 200mg/ml.RipDsel said:
Silent Method
New member
You must understand that with a cycle such as this the point is not to "get big quick." It is an attempt to optimize your growth potential without damaging yourself.DRRman said:
Think about it, for three weeks your body is full of, but not overloaded with, AAS that it would otherwise not have. Nitrogen retention still goes through the roof compared to baseline for those three weeks, while suppression is kept to a minimum.
Stick some fat slob on this for his first cycle and he'll be plenty disapointed. However, give this cycle to a well conditioned athlete (which you should already be if you are going to use steroids) and I'd bet he'd see great results.
Nelson how about posting an example of your type of cycle using the more commonly available injectables like test cyp, sust, or enanthate and the most common orals, d-bol or winstrol.
Perhaps a test/d-bol cycle would not be possible for a "Montana" type cycle due to their suppressive nature.?
RG
Perhaps a test/d-bol cycle would not be possible for a "Montana" type cycle due to their suppressive nature.?
RG
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CAESAR7
New member
Realgains said:Nelson how about posting an example of your type of cycle using the more commonly available injectables like test cyp, sust, or enanthate and the most common orals, d-bol or winstrol.
Perhaps a test/d-bol cycle would not be possible for a "Montana" type cycle due to their suppressive nature.?
RG
bump...also, would you up your calories as high as you would on a normal cycle or not as much since the cycle only lasts 3 weeks?...thanks...
nuh_mizer said:
Remember bro....Nelsons believes in avoiding as much inhibition as possible, avoiding as many sides as possiblel and keeping as high a percentage of those gains as possible.
His cycles will not put a lot of bulk on ya, but smaller gains at one time are better kept by the body as the body seems to be able to adapt to these gains and hold to them better. Part of that has to do with the quick HPTA recovery and part of it has to do with adaptation in general.
The body doesn't like to hold onto 30 pounds of bulk and 20 pounds of pure muscle at one shot gained in 8 weeks .
RG
nuh_mizer
New member
Realgains said:
Remember bro....Nelsons believes in avoiding as much inhibition as possible, avoiding as many sides as possiblel and keeping as high a percentage of those gains as possible.
His cycles will not put a lot of bulk on ya, but smaller gains at one time are better kept by the body as the body seems to be able to adapt to these gains and hold to them better. Part of that has to do with the quick HPTA recovery and part of it has to do with adaptation in general.
The body doesn't like to hold onto 30 pounds of bulk and 20 pounds of pure muscle at one shot gained in 8 weeks .
RG
Yeah I know where he's coming from. I'm also not a fan of huge doses. I just know that I tried primo alone for about 10 weeks at 400mg/week and didn't gain much, but that's primo.
Of course you need to increase calories. You can't grow on a calorie deficet and steroids can't make muscle out of nothing.
400 mgs of primo alone won't do much, that's why you need the orals too. If you don't grow on the cycle I proposed you either aren't eating enough or training hard enough or sleeping enough. Everybody wants the drugs to do the work. They blow up on water, see the numbers on the scale go up and go; Woo Hoo!!! But that's bullshit. Primo builds solid muscle - but ya gotta work for it.
Zyg answered the question about sus right.
RG answered the question about test and d-bol right.
400 mgs of primo alone won't do much, that's why you need the orals too. If you don't grow on the cycle I proposed you either aren't eating enough or training hard enough or sleeping enough. Everybody wants the drugs to do the work. They blow up on water, see the numbers on the scale go up and go; Woo Hoo!!! But that's bullshit. Primo builds solid muscle - but ya gotta work for it.
Zyg answered the question about sus right.
RG answered the question about test and d-bol right.
As mentioned, I did short low dose cycles, and over the course of about 3 years, put on an additional 25 pounds and kept every pound of it for years afterward while remaining completely natural. And this occured after a lifetime of training and maxing out so the gains wouldn't have "happened anyway."
Back then I made the same mistakes every makes. I used deca. ( Lost Mr Happy) I did pro hormones (Lost Mr. Happy) I thought I needed nolva but it slowed my gains. I used Clomid (Wanted to kill myself, I got so depressed.) I did HGH and went broke for nothing. By the time I figured out the "perfect" cycle, I'd reached my enhanced maximum and was getting a little too old to keep going. Besides, I like my weight right where it is. (6% fat would be nice but at age 49, that's a pipe dream)
I did do a simlar (even milder) cycle, when I first went on HRT, gained about four pounds and have held on to it. Of course, I went right back on HRT which allowed me to keep it. No crash.
The original "Steroids For Health" has worked for hundreds of people, even with it's flaws. This revised version ("SFH 2002) is as good as it gets.I get more into the chemistry involved in my new book.
Warning: T-Mag recently printed a piece called "Steroids For Health 2003" which is a complete pile of shit. They ripped off the title and give terrible advice in the article. I have no affilation with them, I did not give them permission to use the title and I think it was pretty scummy and unimaginitive to steal someone else creative property. But hey, it's T-mag.
Back then I made the same mistakes every makes. I used deca. ( Lost Mr Happy) I did pro hormones (Lost Mr. Happy) I thought I needed nolva but it slowed my gains. I used Clomid (Wanted to kill myself, I got so depressed.) I did HGH and went broke for nothing. By the time I figured out the "perfect" cycle, I'd reached my enhanced maximum and was getting a little too old to keep going. Besides, I like my weight right where it is. (6% fat would be nice but at age 49, that's a pipe dream)
I did do a simlar (even milder) cycle, when I first went on HRT, gained about four pounds and have held on to it. Of course, I went right back on HRT which allowed me to keep it. No crash.
The original "Steroids For Health" has worked for hundreds of people, even with it's flaws. This revised version ("SFH 2002) is as good as it gets.I get more into the chemistry involved in my new book.
Warning: T-Mag recently printed a piece called "Steroids For Health 2003" which is a complete pile of shit. They ripped off the title and give terrible advice in the article. I have no affilation with them, I did not give them permission to use the title and I think it was pretty scummy and unimaginitive to steal someone else creative property. But hey, it's T-mag.
nuh_mizer said:
If one really has a good grasp on how to trian WITHOUT ROIDS and then adds small doses one can see pretty decent gains in a very short time "on".
Trouble is almost nobody really knows how to train without roids..you can blaim all the BS glossy Weider mags for that and most of the genetically freaked out mega dosing pro's as well....damn I wish the OLD "Iron Man" Magazine was still around.
Not saying that you don't know how to train without roids bro....just making a statement in general.
400 of primo over 10 weeks would produce decent gains IF your training , diet and sleep patterns were dead on...UNLESS you are ABOVE your natural potential. ie: about 190 leanish pounds for a guy 5' 9 or 10". I am not talking about 30 pounds of watery bulk and muscle but rather 10-15 pounds of pure muscle.
If you are above your estimated natural maximum developement then somewhat larger doses of primo would likely be needed to get much bigger. Actually an oral would do well with the primo, like Nelson says, but then again I do not recommend orals for longer than 4 weeks.
If you are far far above your natural max then huge doses are needed and stuff a lot stronger than primo... but then again how many here are top national level competitors or pro's.
RG
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