Q. about carb up in contest diet.

[Iron Queen]

Everyone I talk to has a different theory on how they carb up for a show. Some people start Wed. for a Saturday show, others start Thurs. Recently I've seen another bber (who will be a LW -mens - go through his contest prep). Wed. he started his carb up and was told to take in a little over 1100 CARBS and approx 200 protein on wed... thurs was down to 370 carbs and 220 p. and I'm not sure about Friday yet, but I know they'll be going out to dinner and eating cheesecake from what I've been told as part of the carb up.

What is everyones opinion on loading more on Wed. then going down every day after that? I know it takes a little over 2 days for the carbs to really hit you and get the full effect from that but I'm curious to everyones opinion.

Also.... what about your CHOICES of carbs. What does everyone use in their carb up, especially the day of the show, early in the a.m, and backstage. I know so many people that do pancakes, bacon, eggs in a.m, then snickers or pie filling backstage... stuff like that. Simple/complex carbs? Whats your thoughts? I'd really really appreciate any feedback on this. I'm about 8 weeks out and want to get everything together early this year and be a bit fuller/more vascular on stage this time around.

--IQ

 

[MS]

Everyone is different and your best bet is to be lean early enough that you can test out whatever method you plan on using at least 3 weeks before your competition. Anecdotally, many women do just as well without a "carb up" per se, and the gear (or lack of) that you use also impacts the success of a carb up. If in doubt, I would opt for the carb up early and then dehydrate while swapping over to fat loading in the final half day or so. This might look something like carbing from wednesday night or Thursday morning until Friday night, dropping you water on Friday morning and eating nothing but fat and protein from Friday night. Doing it this way gives you the option to continue carbing up if you don't feel 'full' enough by Friday night. Cutting the carbs Friday night also ensures you won't be holding excess water for the pre-judging. As you already know, there is no right answer to this question. Personally I have my pigout on Friday night instead of Saturday night since I have determined that I use to look better on Sunday morning instead of Saturday morning, so I've just moved my whole contest prep method forward a day!

 

[NY Muscle]

What is everyones opinion on loading more on Wed. then going down every day after that?

That’s the smartest thing you can do…I used to carb up early and end Friday nite…just ate protein and SOME carbs (raisins/jelly) the day of the show..

Most people say “ah shit I looked better the day AFTER the show”, well try it this way and you will look better the DAY of the show.

 

[The Shadow]

Also - remember - no Lasix or Diur while loading

 

[akrama]

cornholio,

You said no diur while carbing... why not? All I have access to is Taraxatone. I am planning on starting it this weekend. My show is in two weeks. What do you think?

Also... Shall I keep my ALA up 3000mg while carbing ?

Also... Do you have any experience with sodium/potassium manipulation between now and the show?

Also... I heard some people use distilled water.. What's the advantage of that?

I appreciate your help.

 

[wilson6]

"You said no diur while carbing... why not?"

1 gram of carbs pulls 2.8 grams of water with it into the muscle. No water, no carb up.

I think....... it was Brickgirl that emailed me regarding the water, sodium issue precontest. Ask her to post the email if she still has it. My suggestions worked just fine for her.

BTW, diuretics went out with the dinosaurs.

W6

 

[akrama]

wilson,

Thank you for your response.

Okay... You don't advocate diuretics during carb up nor at all. Well then, how would you get rid of all subcutanous water right before the show? I have cutting gel... I'm not sure how well that works.

Do you think Taraxatone will really interefere with my carb up?

Also.. I have looked for your recommendations to Brick and I wasn't successful at finding them.

I really appreciate any help from you. My show is in less than two weeks.

Again... Thank you.

akrama

 

[NY Muscle]

wilson,

Thank you for your response.

Okay... You don't advocate diuretics during carb up nor at all. Well then, how would you get rid of all subcutanous water right before the show? I have cutting gel... I'm not sure how well that works.

Do you think Taraxatone will really interefere with my carb up?

Also.. I have looked for your recommendations to Brick and I wasn't successful at finding them.

I really appreciate any help from you. My show is in less than two weeks.

Again... Thank you.

akrama

Cutting gel sucks but MAYBE is good for some water under the skin…what you need is Thiomucase, $7 a tube, www.dpsnutrition.com also yohimburn (www.anabolicfitness.com ) is good but you have to stop the yohimburn about 3-4 days before your show because it will make you retain some water when you are using it but you will piss it all out and more once you stop…another thing (I like to combine all 3) is Scultping Gel…it contains lots of little neat synergistic topical compounds that Yohimburn doesn’t and if it did it would be the ultimate topical fat loss/water loss product. You can check out Sculpting Gel at www.netrition.com

Last but not least, Preparation H, rub that on your stomach as well….

The ONLY one of the 4 things I listed that I would use up to and on the day of the show is Thiomucase cream as it is great stuff and you wont hold any water from its use and wont inhibit your carb up.

Also drink a shit load of water..as much as possible…back in the day id force 4 gallons down my throat per day then when you cut water Friday and Saturday its amazing how dry you will be.

Get some Glycerol too, start taking 3-4 tablespoons Thursday and Friday and maybe sat morning before prejudging.


Last but not least..if you are fat but think you are "holding water" none of this stuff will work for you this late in the contest prep. Too many people say "oh i was holding too much water the day of the show" and i say, um NO you are just fat.

 

[wilson6]

"Last but not least..if you are fat but think you are "holding water" none of this stuff will work for you this late in the contest prep. Too many people say "oh i was holding too much water the day of the show" and i say, um NO you are just fat."

Couldn't have said that better myself, and if you try to screw with your water too much just prior to the show, you'll end up flat and cramped on top of being fat.

W6

 

[Arioch]

Wilson, I have a couple of questions for you since I know nothing about competitive bodybuilding.

Do you believe that there is an anabolic rebound (at least a noticable one) following such extreme dieting?

If so, how would you take advantage of it?

And, if so, do the results depend on more on length or severity of the diet, and how should macronutrient ratios be adjusted to maximize this effect?

Of course, if everyone is so worn out from dieting that they cannot lift well at all, I suppose this does not matter much.

 

[MS]

Post dieting anabolic rebound is another area of BB where women get screwed. There is no doubt that the sudden influx of excess nutrients leads to increased (protein) anabolism, but women also tend to get an even larger increase in estrogen and progesterone. It's sometimes hard to distinguish between true anabolic gains and increased fluid in these cases. With proper training a women can put on a decent amount of muscle in a short time by taking advantage of the increased anabolism, but if you're fat-phobic then a more controlled "refeed" is a better bet. Recent research has shown benefits of incorporating a diet high in EFAs to minimize post dieting rebound. It seems these fatty acid's ability to upregulate some mitochondrial uncoupling proteins leads to an increase in energy expenditure/heat production.

 

[wilson6]

I've comp'd a few competitors following shows and the lean mass increases rapidly over the following 6 - 10 weeks, although some of the early increases are a result of rehydration. If you're juicing, then don't stop post competition as this is the best time to add muscle mass and maximize the anabolic potential of the AAS, simply switch to test or nandrolone (less toxic overall) if you're using stanozolol or other orals. If you're natural, then you don't have those concerns.

Thus to best take advantage of the rebound,

1) Take a week off from all exercise following the competition and be conservative with food intake (i.e, one binge day is fine, but not more). Increase your carbs and protein but not to excess. As MS said, estrogen will increase as will fat. If you're juiced, this won't be as much of a concern. In addition, juicers have to be careful as high carb binges can fill you out so fast that you might end up with compartment syndrome and need emergency surgery to resolve it.

2) Start back into training easy for the first two weeks, then increase the intensity. Keep the diet clean, but enough calories to grow. Don't be too anal about staying lean, but don't blow up with fat either.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

What's "compartment syndrome"?

 

[Arioch]

Ok, assuming that one's glycogen stores are pretty well depleted, even assuming a modest amount of carbs were present, could the process of both recovery and anabolism be increased through the use of a mild depletion workout which could increase glycogen supercompensation, assuming nutrient repartitioning agents were used?

This is, of course, assuming that carbs were depleted as part of the pre-contest diet.

 

[wilson6]

We're talking more long-term here caloric deprivation, not just glycogen depletion workouts and that would be hard to do with weights. A hard resistance training session would only deplete a given body part about 30%. Chronic carb depletion will increase the loss of muscle mass. That's why it is best to rotate carbs on a precontest diet.

The most important part of protein synthesis is keeping circulating essential amino acids high all the time. That means regular feedings. One also needs energy, particularly in the form of carbs for heavy workouts. It is a balance. Without the aminos, it doesn't matter how many circulating anabolic hormones are present. Protein synthesis will be restricted.

Compartment syndrome is when the muscle swells within the fascia and compresses nerves and blood vessels. Emergency intervention is needed (they cut the fascia). It has happened with bodybuilders.

W6

 

[akrama]

"That's why it is best to rotate carbs on a precontest diet."

I have been using the "ISO Caloric" diet for my contest and I can say with confidence that it's been the best diet of choice over my past diets I have tried. In the mirror, it looks as if I have not lost an ounce of muscle and I am really cut now despite the fact that I am preparing for a natural show here. Striations are everwhere.

ISO diet provides the body with all the essential aminos. Since carbs are relatively low "1/3" of total intake, this keeps insulin low. But, at least you always have carbs to fuel the good intense workouts. The good quality fats "Fish oil / Flax / CLA / Olive Oil" work against catabolism. It just makes perfect sense.

Other diets I have used always involved taking in more of one of the macro nutrients than the rest which was counter productive always which results in either losing too much muscle mass or not losing fat efficiently.

After my experience, I am a big advocate of the ISO diet now. However, I am open minded to try the carb cycling in the future after my show in two weeks.

Wilson.. Where can I get complete info on the Carb Cycling diet? Who came up with it? What's the reasoning behind it? I would love to read up on it and try it. Thank you....

akrama

 

[NY Muscle]

Wilson.. Where can I get complete info on the Carb Cycling diet? Who came up with it?

I got a hunch it was "found" by accident.

I recall when i was younger and 1st started dieting...id rotate high and low carb days or have a cheat meal once in a while (the cheat meal was becuase a lack of will power at that moment) and it turned out i kept losing weight and realized there was something to this carb and calorie cycling.

But who knows...

 

[wilson6]

NY is correct. It was found by accident.

Do a search, the topic has been discussed. I don't think anyone has written anything formally on the topic, but there are women on the board that have had success with carb cycling when other diets have failed. Bottom line, do what works for you and keep it consistent.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

Compartment syndrome is when the muscle swells within the fascia and compresses nerves and blood vessels. Emergency intervention is needed (they cut the fascia). It has happened with bodybuilders.

W6

That sounds horrific. How many grams of carbs are we talking about here? And why does this particularly happen with juicers?

If you don't mind W6 (or MS, if you're reading), besides increases in oestrogen, progesterone, compartment syndrome for juicers, etc., what other health effects can one expect coming off a pre-contest diet? And how temporary or permanent are they?

MS, when you say "proper training" ... do you have anything specific in mind, or are you just talking about the intensity level? A standard BB'ing programme emphasising compound movements?

I would be very interested to hear what other people have done for training post-comp. to maximise LBM gains.