Proviron

[DMI]

Hey guys, I have a question about proviron. With it being an androgen, can it effect the heart in the same way that AAS can by binding to its androgen receptors and causing possible heart enlargement? I know proviron isn't anabolic so I'm really not sure about this.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Ulter]

AAS doesn't cause heart enlargement and neither does proviron.

 

[DMI]

Studies have shown left ventricle enlargement is AAS users (as well as non steroid using bodybuilders,) but it is more prominent in steroid users. Not that I believe everything I read but I read a big article on steroid use and enlarged hearts in this month's MD magazine, and I've also read some case studies on this board. Also, a few months ago in my town a competetive bodybuilder died
of multiple organ failure due to heart enlargement and his heart weighed a hell of a lot more than it should have in the autopsey.

I'm not trying to put you down ulter because all i know is what i've read, so can u go into more detail here as to why you don't think AAS can enlarge the heart muscle?

Many thanks!

AAS doesn't cause heart enlargement and neither does proviron.

 

[view]

AAS doesn't cause heart enlargement and neither does proviron.

I always thought the heart was a muscle and had AR receptors in it.

Of course all exercise can led to heart enlargement, but won't aas worsen the problem?

 

[PBR]

i have read that the heart muscle has the most AR receptors....and that it is the first place of uptake of AAS....?????

 

[DMI]

bump

 

[Jenetic]

Studies have shown left ventricle enlargement is AAS users (as well as non steroid using bodybuilders,) but it is more prominent in steroid users.

The primary cause of ventricular hypertrophy in those studeis is due to exercise. Androgens alone do not cause that. For example, taking AAS by itself does not induce muscle growth without the stimulus provided by exercise.

Ventricular hypertrophy is an adaptation by the ventricle to increased stress, such as chronically increased volume load (preload) or increased pressure load (afterload). It is a physiological response that enables the heart to adapt to increased stress. However, the response can become pathological and ultimately lead to a deterioration in function.

Ventricular hypertrophy is a normal physiological adaptation to exercise training that enables the ventricle to enhance its pumping capacity. This type of physiologic hypertrophy is reversible and non pathological.

The only way I can see AAS being associated with cardiac problems is primarily due to chronic hypertension (high blood preassure) and it's negative impact on the lipid profile from extended periods of usage which can lead to coronary artery disease.

Jenetic

 

[wesley90]

hmm, but it still enlarges your heart more then it would be without roids...

 

[Jenetic]

hmm, but it still enlarges your heart more then it would be without roids...

Why would it not?

Training volume and intenstiy would more than likely increase with AAS. Therefore, the heart would have to adapt to the increased stress.

Please take the time to read my previous post in detail.

Jenetic

 

[wesley90]

I did, but is it worth it? An enlarged heart? Personally I am predisposed to heart disease, such as enlarged heart, high blood pressure, atherosclerosis, which is hardening of the inner lining of the arterys.

 

[VictorBR]

I did, but is it worth it? An enlarged heart? Personally I am predisposed to heart disease, such as enlarged heart, high blood pressure, atherosclerosis, which is hardening of the inner lining of the arterys.

>>> Obviously, it would not be a good idea for you due to a genetic predisposition. I think you can answer that for yourself. I read his post and he clearly stated exercise induced hypertrophy is not pathological. I'm pretty sure he is trying to say that an enlarged heart is not necessarily bad depending on the reason. Are you saying that exercise is bad for you? I always thought that exercise was a way to prevent heart disease.


Victor

 

[wesley90]

I dont think overly enlarged hearts are a good thing...theres a connection between enlarged hearts and heart disease, at least from what the American Heart Association says. Now, of course athletes will have larger hearts then those who dont exercise, its just the way things work.

 

[VictorBR]

Ventricular hypertrophy is a normal physiological adaptation to exercise training that enables the ventricle to enhance its pumping capacity. This type of physiologic hypertrophy is reversible and non pathological.

The only way I can see AAS being associated with cardiac problems is primarily due to Hypertension (high blood preassure) and it's negative impact on the lipid profile which cand lead to coronary artery disease.

Jenetic

I don't see anywhere that he said it was an overly enlarged heart. Thats your own assumption. What he said was the reason for the increased hypertrophy from the AAS group was because of the increased volume of exercise. Not because of the AAS. I don't speak English as a first language and I understand what the word Pathological means. Go read a dictionary.

Look at the second paragraph. Hypertension and coronary artery disease is what you should be concerned about. That makes sense to me. Those would be a problem before the heart enlargement would.

He is giving us information so that we can learn and make an educated decision. You are making this an argument. He did not say to take or not to take AAS.You are putting words in his mouth.

Save your time Jenetic. I think I pretty much covered it for you. It's not your fault some people can not interpret what you are saying.

Victor

 

[DMI]

Yes Jenetic, some studies I've read have attributed steroid using weight lifters having larger hearts than non steroid using weight lifters to increased strength meaning the left ventricle enlarging to adapt to the increased stress and blood flow when lifting heavier weights.

 

[wesley90]

ok, lets go read a dictionary...
from http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Anabolic_steroid

Enlargement of the heart (the heart is a muscle and thus affected by the muscle-building qualities of the hormones) is a risk, which increases the chance of a cardiac event occurring in later life.

You are making this into a pissing match. Stop, it isnt worth it.

I don't see anywhere that he said it was an overly enlarged heart. Thats your own assumption. What he said was the reason for the increased hypertrophy from the AAS group was because of the increased volume of exercise. Not because of the AAS. I don't speak English as a first language and I understand what the word Pathological means. Go read a dictionary.

Look at the second paragraph. Hypertension and coronary artery disease is what you should be concerned about. That makes sense to me. Those would be a problem before the heart enlargement would.

He is giving us information so that we can learn and make an educated decision. You are making this an argument. He did not say to take or not to take AAS.You are putting words in his mouth.

Save your time Jenetic. I think I pretty much covered it for you. It's not your fault some people can not interpret what you are saying.

Victor

 

[VeteranNewbie88]

remember...for what its worth...cardiac muscle is very different than skeletal muscle....I'm not sure if cardiac muscle has androgen receptors...anyone??

 

[VictorBR]

I asked you to define the word " Pathological " . I am still waiting .

This is not intended to be a pissing contest. Your level of comprehension shows disrespect.


Victor

 

[wesley90]

remember...for what its worth...cardiac muscle is very different than skeletal muscle....I'm not sure if cardiac muscle has androgen receptors...anyone??

Yes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...eve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9697826&dopt=Abstract

Androgen receptors are present in cardiac myocytes from multiple species, including normal men and women, in a context that permits androgens to modulate the cardiac phenotype and produce hypertrophy by direct, receptor-specific mechanisms. There are clinical implications for therapeutic or illicit use of androgens in humans.

VictorBR:

You can look it up yourself, it isnt my job to do your work. I dont have an MD or anything near it, but from my researching, an enlarged heart can be caused without hypertension or other diseases. Oh, and an enlarged hear can cause permanent damage:

http://my.webmd.com/hw/heart_disease/uf4595.asp

Once the left ventricle becomes significantly enlarged, heart damage can be irreversible. The left ventricle can enlarge even while you are symptom-free.

 

[VeteranNewbie88]

Yes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...eve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9697826&dopt=Abstract

Very Interesting.....thanks for the link....

 

[wesley90]

Yeah, I try

 

[VictorBR]

Yes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...eve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9697826&dopt=Abstract




VictorBR:

You can look it up yourself, it isnt my job to do your work. I dont have an MD or anything near it, but from my researching, an enlarged heart can be caused without hypertension or other diseases. Oh, and an enlarged hear can cause permanent damage:

http://my.webmd.com/hw/heart_disease/uf4595.asp

Congratulations, you just failed pre school. You have to be pretty retarded to fail pre school. LMAO. What's the point of researching if you don't know what you are looking for in the first place? Nobody said that hypertrophy does not lead to probems. It obviously does. You still don't understand. What kind of hypertrophy??? If you had the ability to read above a pre school level you would notice that jenetic stated that exercise induced hypertrophy is physiological and not pathological which does make it reversible. Oh I forgot, you could have answered your own question simply by understanding what Pathological means. I must apologize. I guess I overlooked the fact that you are retarded.


Victor