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Protein before bed?

wanabejacked

New member
I recently lost 35 pounds with all diet. I am two weeks into lifting and doing cardio. I am doing the whole GNC thing (but not overdoing).

Someone told me to eat something (like cheese, or yogurt) before bed. I always thought you shouldn't eat anything before bed because it will turn into fat. He said your body burns protein at night and this will help in building muscle. Is that true?????
 
If I were to eat before bed it would be lean protein, steak, chicken, tuna, salmon, things that can't turn into fat. You dont' want anything with more than 2-5 carbs before bed.
 
Yes Protein + Fat before bed is good.

Like a protein shake with ANPB (All natural Peanut Butter) to slow digestion through the night.

Keep carbs low to non.
 
Thanks guys I appreciate the help. I do not take in any carbs after 6PM. I work out usually between 7-8. And in bed 10 - 10:30. I usually eat a yogurt or slice of cheese at 9-9:30. About 6 grams of protein no fat no carbs.

Does that sound like I am on the right track?
 
I make a quick casein shake before bed which lasts around 8 hours which is about how much sleep you need each night.

I use musclemilk because i love the taste.
 
Most processed and dairy foods have "hidden" carbs in them from the sugars used to make them. I would make sure to do a little more research before you decide to have your yogurt before bed. If you feel like you need some snack and protein before bed try sugar free hot chocolate with a half scoop of protein or something.
 
Sorry guys the yogurt has 16 g of carbs. The cheese is at the house and propbably does contain carbs as well. What do you suggest? Should I stop eating before bed and take a supliment or just change what i have before bed?
 
wanabejacked said:
Thanks guys I appreciate the help. I do not take in any carbs after 6PM. I work out usually between 7-8. And in bed 10 - 10:30. I usually eat a yogurt or slice of cheese at 9-9:30. About 6 grams of protein no fat no carbs.

Does that sound like I am on the right track?

The idea of no carbs after some certain hour because they "magically" turn to fat is silly. If you are energy deficient, your body will utilize them just fine.
 
The milk, and milk products like yogurt will have carbs in it, but they are fairly low GI so they won't be so bad. Many non-flavored yogurts have honey added to them to offset the natural sourness. Use low-fat plain yogurt. Avoid yoplait/dannon low calorie stuff as its just highly processed to remove the fat and has nothing but added sugar/fructose.

I eat lowfat plain yogurt + 2 packs of splenda. Or fruit.

I do whey before bed as i work out late at night anyways.
 
Lifterforlife said:
The idea of no carbs after some certain hour because they "magically" turn to fat is silly. If you are energy deficient, your body will utilize them just fine.
Agreed...but:
It's no so much no carbs as low carbs...

For me at least... say I intake 30-50 grams of carbs from let's say a Yam a few hours before I need to sleep. I can't sleep because, simply, the carbos activate and feed your brain... so I stick with fats and proteins later in the day/night.
 
nycspike said:
If I were to eat before bed it would be lean protein, steak, chicken, tuna, salmon, things that can't turn into fat. You dont' want anything with more than 2-5 carbs before bed.

uuhhh...i thought anything can turn into fat...is just a lot easier for your body to turn sugars into fat than protein.....
 
fellas....cmon.....the whole carbs before bed = fat gain was debunked a long time ago....there is no magic cutoff....my brother used to slam pbandj's during contest prep at 2am.....that was like 12 weeks out....and then he switced to myoplex carb sense bars....lol. I eat oats, almonds, and a fat shake.....dry cutd cotttage cheese and a half jar og pb.
 
JKurz1 said:
fellas....cmon.....the whole carbs before bed = fat gain was debunked a long time ago....there is no magic cutoff....my brother used to slam pbandj's during contest prep at 2am.....that was like 12 weeks out....and then he switced to myoplex carb sense bars....lol. I eat oats, almonds, and a fat shake.....dry cutd cotttage cheese and a half jar og pb.
:rolleyes:
 
gymratforlife said:
Nah, but it's true...I train at 5pm and have a shake/carb source immidiately pw.

then my final meal is 5-10 minutes before bed. So, carbs, fats, and protein are ESSENTIAL........900pm
 
Yup Stg the cheese has 2 g's of carbs. I usually train from 6:30 - 7:30 - 8 ish. I take a protein shake and then eat dinner about a half hour later. Mostly protein (meat, chicken, fish) and veggies. I am not hungry before I go to sleep I was just having the yogurt and cheese so my body doesn't burn the protein in my muscles.
 
JKurz1 said:
fellas....cmon.....the whole carbs before bed = fat gain was debunked a long time ago...
One reason I do not like carbs before bed because it messes with my sleeping patterns & my body just does NOT run efficiently if I have them (complex form) before I hit the sack...

Carbs = glucose = brain food = Bunny not sleeping = Crabby boots
 
Lifterforlife said:
The idea of no carbs after some certain hour because they "magically" turn to fat is silly. If you are energy deficient, your body will utilize them just fine.
Not silly at all. Insulin shuts down all fat burning. When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning but deposit those carbs into your fat cells because your muscle cells are not going to use them. So no, your body will not use them just fine.
 
Ulter said:
Not silly at all. Insulin shuts down all fat burning. When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning but deposit those carbs into your fat cells because your muscle cells are not going to use them. So no, your body will not use them just fine.
NOT TRUE if you train in the evening brother......you need them!!!
 
Lifterforlife said:
Agreed with Jkurz....read post #11 again, and again if you have to. Let it sink in. Energy deficient, it does not matter!
I agree with the calories in calories out deficiency equals fat loss theory also,just not too sure about the high carb high fat shake pwo.I need some time before I can swallow that one,I have been told different for way to long,but then again theories are made to be broken so who knows,were learning new stuff every day as we grow into this sport.
 
JKurz1 said:
NOT TRUE if you train in the evening brother......you need them!!!
Yes and if you train at 3am you need them. But that's not what we're talking about. If you train at night it's all the more reason to use Glucorell with the PWO shake to clear the insulin faster so it's not there when you go bed.
 
Ulter said:
Yes and if you train at 3am you need them. But that's not what we're talking about. If you train at night it's all the more reason to use Glucorell with the PWO shake to clear the insulin faster so it's not there when you go bed.
I can get down to sub 6%, training at 5pm, having my shake at 630, my RICH carb/pro/fat meal at 830, and crashing very shortly thereafter....is it just me? Maybe, so do what works for you, but there is no magical cutoff period. People should NOT be afraid of solid, low gi, wholesome carbs....you need these fellas to build mass. Plain and simple. ANDDD.....I don't take no stinkn Glucorell..........it's all about balance. :chomp:
 
Ulter said:
Not silly at all. Insulin shuts down all fat burning. When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning but deposit those carbs into your fat cells because your muscle cells are not going to use them. So no, your body will not use them just fine.

Give me a break! Protein can cause an insulin response quite nicely on its own. So, you should not have protein either if you are in an energy deficit? Please!
 
Lifterforlife said:
Give me a break! Protein can cause an insulin response quite nicely on its own. So, you should not have protein either if you are in an energy deficit? Please!
good post :chomp:
 
SO basically everyone has a bit of a different take on the subject. I took a time release protein shake that I have in the Am (only 20 g's of protein) before I went to bed. I'll give it a whirl for a week or two. I take it trail and error is going to be the way to go?
 
Protein will illicit an insulin response after it's been converted to glucose otherwise it illicits glucagon (the opposite of insulin). If you have carbs post workout you can keep your protein as protein. And again you miss the point though. It's not just the response it's the level of response causing an excess of insulin in the blood that will stay with you into the night because your glucose is still present, that you are trying to avoid. Having the excess insulin "prevents fat cells from
releasing their contents to burn for energy, and causes cells to store additional fat".

Give yourself a break bro. You need to understand this a little better.
 
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Think about this scenario, and maybe it will "enlighten". Say you work out in the morning, and your goal is fat burning. Ok, after your workout, you are in an energy deficit, what meal would you choose to eat?

You would want a low glycemic, high protein meal to let any lypolisis that you incurred in your workout continue unabated(no insulin response). So, a good choice would be for instance, a good animal source of protein, 1/2 cup or so of beans, and a cup of vegetables for instance.

Ok, this is fine now. Now you go to work, and you have a job that exerts no energy expenditure, like sitting at a desk all day. Would fat burn keep happening in this instance? If the answer is yes here, what would the difference be if you have an energy deficit at night, ate the same meal, and went to bed. Would it somehow ellicit an insulin response that the earlier meal did not?

It would be much more catabolic to go to bed on an empty stomach, or even with just a protein shake. In fact, protein by itself can and does raise insulin nicely. Whereas a mixed meal would blunt any insulin much better.

We need to use common sense.....if you are in an energy deficit, you need to feed the body. This is nutrition 101. Now if you train early, and eat all day, chances are good it is not a good idea to have the carb meal, unless you just don't care and are on an all out bulk. You have to realize what your body needs, and give it to it.
 
Ulter said:
Protein will illicit an insulin response after it's been converted to glucose otherwise it illicits glucagon (the opposite of insulin). If you have carbs post workout you can keep your protein as protein.
And again you miss the point though. It's not just the response it's the level of response causing an excess of insulin in the blood that will stay with you into the night that you are trying to avoid. Having the excess insulin "prevents fat cells from
releasing their contents to burn for energy, and causes cells to store additional fat".

Give yourself a break bro. You need to understand this a little better.

What???? What "additional fat" are the cells are going to store during a hypocaloric diet?

And insulin is not the be all end all of diet. How would you explain how people can still gain fat eating a hypercaloric ketogenic diet, during which insulin levels are going to be pretty negligable.

Think about what you are saying. I think it is someone else who needs to understand this a bit better. ;)
 
Whoa!! Now you're going to rewrite the thread and make it about a keto dieter?

First you're saying adding carbs is fine and now the person is on a keto diet. How did that happen?

Figure out what your argument is and present it. But don't change it mid-stream.

Ok, this is fine now. Now you go to work, and you have a job that exerts no energy expenditure, like sitting at a desk all day. Would fat burn keep happening in this instance? If the answer is yes here, what would the difference be if you have an energy deficit at night, ate the same meal, and went to bed. Would it somehow ellicit an insulin response that the earlier meal did not?

It would be much more catabolic to go to bed on an empty stomach, or even with just a protein shake. In fact, protein by itself can and does raise insulin nicely. Whereas a mixed meal would blunt any insulin much better.

Yes it's catabolic to go to bed on an empty stomach. Protein and fat will take care of that problem though. Carbs just make you fatter if you don't clear them before bed. That's the whole discussion here.

No, protein by itself, as protein, is not going to "raise insulin nicely". Luckily
 
Ulter said:
Whoa!! Now you're going to rewrite the thread and make it about a keto dieter?

First you're saying adding carbs is fine and now the person is on a keto diet. How did that happen?

Figure out what your argument is and present it. But don't change it mid-stream.

Sorry bro...that won't work. I did in no way change the argument. I simply presented a scenario to you that shows insulin is not the be all end all of diet.

I like your tactics, but save them for the GNC crowd. :)
 
Well I thank everyone that has posted. I am a true newbee and have a whole lot to learn. That is why I think this site is great. I honestly think I am getting ahead of myself. I am not energy deficit at all. I am a high energy person to begin with. I am looking to put on 15-20 pounds of muscle but be cut up as well.
 
Lifterforlife said:
Sorry bro...that won't work. I did in no way change the argument. I simply presented a scenario to you that shows insulin is not the be all end all of diet.

I like your tactics, but save them for the GNC crowd. :)
1. no one said anything about insulin being the end all diet. In fact NOTHING was said about insulin being used in the diet or as part of the diet or even what the diet was. What on earth are you talking about? Are you on the same thread?

2. You absolutely presented another sideways argument to what you were saying. In post 11 you were arguing against carbs not being bad at night and then even though that was still the discussion you changed to a keto diet.

3. You are the GNC crowd. You haven't presented any valid argument to your point, nor have you addressed the discussion after it was pointed out your argument was flawed. Basically you've removed yourself from the discussion by not addressing any aspect of it.
 
I train at 9 to 11pm....I lift weights and play racket ball....so let me ask....

I eat a can of tuna after my gym time and than take a shower and got to bed....I eat no carbs....is this bad or good....
 
It's not "bad". But it would be better to use a simple carb to force a higher insulin response and then use Glucorell to make the carbs clear so you can go to sleep without them.
When you're done working out your cells are the most responsive so your body doesn't produce much insulin if it doesn't get a "glucose wake up call". But once your insulin is through carrying then nutrients around and feedling the cells you want to it shut down. It won't if the glucose is still hanging around.
 
Ulter said:
1. no one said anything about insulin being the end all diet. In fact NOTHING was said about insulin being used in the diet or as part of the diet or even what the diet was. What on earth are you talking about? Are you on the same thread?

Excuse me, but a direct line from your post..."When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning"...this was your direct argument against carbs at night. If you cannot keep up with your own posts, that is an interesting indication.

2. You absolutely presented another sideways argument to what you were saying. In post 11 you were arguing against carbs not being bad at night and then even though that was still the discussion you changed to a keto diet.

No, you are changing the argument. I posted that in direct response to your insulin post noted above. It is not a change of argument, and you have not addressed it as it totally counters your insulin argument.

3. You are the GNC crowd. You haven't presented any valid argument to your point, nor have you addressed the discussion after it was pointed out your argument was flawed. Basically you've removed yourself from the discussion by not addressing any aspect of it.

Me not addressing any aspect of it, what are you talking about? I made a post about if you are energy deficient, there is nothing wrong with carbs at night. You countered with the insulin argument. When I posed examples of why insulin is not the relevance of everything, YOU failed to address them at all...reason being, you cannot. You stated that and again, a direct quote..."Having the excess insulin "prevents fat cells from
releasing their contents to burn for energy, and causes cells to store additional fat". I responded directly to this then how the hell can additional fat be stored during a hypocaloric diet? Again, to which you did not respond, because again you cannot.

Lets see here, carbs bad, insulin, oh yeah, guess what??? I just happen to have a product to sell you for that! Hhhhmmmmm...keep the sales pitch bro.
 
Excuse me, but a direct line from your post..."When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning"...this was your direct argument against carbs at night. If you cannot keep up with your own posts, that is an interesting indication.

I'm keeping up and reading my post but I don't see where it says insulin is part of the diet. You said, "insulin is not the be all end all of diet." Where does what I wrote say insulin is part of the diet? Insulin is a key hormone that needs to be limited at certain times to prevent fat storage. That's a fact. But that doesn't make insulin the "end all diet". That statement doesn't even make sense.


how the hell can additional fat be stored during a hypocaloric diet? Again, to which you did not respond, because again you cannot.

Fat is stored when fat burning stops. Insulin stops fat burning. Hypocaloric or not. At that point the body has to decide what to do with the glucose and since now you're sleeping and won't be using it, it goes to the fat cells.




When I posed examples of why insulin is not the relevance of everything, YOU failed to address them at all...reason being, you cannot.

Not only CAN I, but I already DID. TWICE!

If you honestly believe insulin is irrelevant to a dieting body builder then I have nothing else to say you. That says it all.
 
You know from my posting that I know how important insulin is. I never stated it was irrelevant in one of my posts. My post alluded to insulin is not the be all end all of dieting.

If you are creating a caloric deficit, you will lose fat. Studies are showing more and more the irrelevance of the GI. The GI was directly the result of insulin response as to controlling diet.

While insulin is indeed our most anabolic hormone, again, when it comes to dieting, caloric deficit is the bottom line. If insulin was indeed the key to losing weight, this surely disputes it....

General Clinical Research Center, Department of Medicine, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, USA.
1. [email protected]

Reducing the dietary glycemic load and the glycemic index was proposed as a novel approach to weight reduction. A parallel-design, randomized 12-wk controlled feeding trial with a 24-wk follow-up phase was conducted to test the hypothesis that a hypocaloric diet designed to reduce the glycemic load and the glycemic index would result in greater sustained weight loss than other hypocaloric diets. Obese subjects (n = 29) were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 diets providing 3138 kJ less than estimated energy needs: high glycemic index (HGI), low glycemic index (LGI), or high fat (HF). For the first 12 wk, all food was provided to subjects (feeding phase). Subjects (n = 22) were instructed to follow the assigned diet for 24 additional weeks (free-living phase). Total body weight was obtained and body composition was assessed by skinfold measurements. Insulin sensitivity was assessed by the homeostasis model (HOMA). At 12 wk, weight changes from baseline were significant in all groups but not different among groups (-9.3 +/- 1.3 kg for the HGI diet, -9.9 +/- 1.4 kg for the LGI diet, and -8.4 +/- 1.5 kg for the HF diet). All groups improved in insulin sensitivity at the end of the feeding phase of the study. During the free-living phase, all groups maintained their initial weight loss and their improved insulin sensitivity. Weight loss and improved insulin sensitivity scores were independent of diet composition. In summary, lowering the glycemic load and glycemic index of weight reduction diets does not provide any added benefit to energy restriction in promoting weight loss in obese subjects.

The first response to this I can hear now....but we are bodybuilders, not obese. Physiology does not change.

Now, if contest level bodyfats are at issue, there may be some change. But, I can use N=1 data, my last contest I "saved" calories for night. In other words, I did not want to go to bed hungry. I was of course hypocaloric, and energy deficient for the day. Some nights I would have yogurt and protein, other nights eggs and vegetables, and others meat and beans. I achieved 5% bodyfat and placed second in my class. This is an indisputable fact, I did it.
 
insulin was indeed the key to losing weight
Who said this? Are you saying I said this? Are you saying that I said anything about calories in and calories used not being the key to dieting? Where?

My points were about carbs at night, remember way back when this started, and you're posting a study showing that cutting the amount of glucose in a diet doesn't affect energy restriction in promoting fat loss in obese people. That study has nothing to do with eating carbs before bed.
As it relates to this thread:
The timing of the carbs is what is important.
The clearing of those carbs is what is important.
Reducing insulin levels through the night is what is important.
Those are the points.
Not whether or not Atkins was right about dieting without carbs.

The discussion you want to have (about carb restricted dieting) should be on another thread now that you've changed it again. This discussion is about carbs/protein at night. Why don't you post a study to back up your claim that protein will illicit an insulin response as protein? That would be at least somewhat relevant.

Note:
Glucorell does not work by ONLY reducing insulin levels. It's a ppar agonist that helps promote fat loss through that receptor.
 
Glucorell is not the answer...the answer was explained...if you train at night, you eat carbs at night, plain and simple.....don't overanalyze!
 
Hate to jump in here, but 10 years ago when I lost the majority of my bodyfat (+30%), the last meal I had before bed was a big bowl of Life Cerial with whole milk. Sometimes with added berries or a bannana. And I ended up having abs for the first time in my life.

Your body is in survival mode 24 hours a day and really doesn't know the difference between Monday, Thursday, 1 in the afternoon or 4 in the morning. It's just not physiologically possible to store fat if you're burning more calories than you're taking in regarless of the source or timing.
 
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*Bunny* said:
Lifter, please be more specific why you feel this way.

The research to back it up is outstanding. But maybe the main reason is have a friend who is a surgeon as well as a competitive bodybuilder(nationals). He was the one who turned me on to these folks....I tend to take someone like thats advice. ;)
 
Lifterforlife said:
The research to back it up is outstanding. But maybe the main reason is have a friend who is a surgeon as well as a competitive bodybuilder(nationals). He was the one who turned me on to these folks....I tend to take someone like thats advice. ;)
I can completely relate to research & docs backing a supp you favor ... My personal health issues demand it. Thanks ;)

alex - I'm glad you posted your findings as well.

There is ALOT of great info here on this topic, from two highly respectable individuals. And I'm sure there are many confused people out there trying to figure out what is the right answer ... As with MANY questions relating to the body & fitness, I believe there is NOT one right answer to this question b/c no one body is the same and there will ALWAYS be someone or somethign to refute it, no matter how solid the 'evidence' may appear....

I'd rather take the info presented & again, see what works best for me ... b/c all the research, references, opinions and 'facts' STILL may not EVER correlate to my personal findings...
 
Lifterforlife said:
The research to back it up is outstanding.

Aww now you're lying. There is NO research to back it up because it has never been clinically tested. There is also no way to test that material for purity, so they use substandard material. And to add an even further dynamic to this lie you tell, AOR bought that material WE rejected from a broker.

Normally you'd be sitting on the sidelines by now and your post deleted. But people who might find that product and actually think it's as good as pure R+. Since only R+ is in the muscle cell in it's reduced form, it's IMPOSSIBLE for that to be better.

Since we are the world's largest supplier of R+ we get the material before anyone else does from the only lab left making it. What we reject after our chemist inspects it and we have it tested at the University of Wisc Covance Labs gets sold to brokers. Then people like AOR buy it.
It's nice that you have a friend who is a surgeon. However he doesn't know anything about the chemistry of lipoic acid if he told you that SR is a better form. OUR doctor has written a comprehensive paper on it and it will be published in the next issue of the peer reviewed medical journal Integrative Medicine. Have your friend read it to you. Or visit www.insulow.com when it's out and you can learn what the hell you're talking about.

We are also supplying the material to Northern Illinois University for a study on it's affects on blood sugar levels. AOR was supposed to supply their material but it was rejected. Now why do you suppose the researchers didn't want to use RS if it's better?

http://www.genengnews.com/news/bnitem.aspx?name=1185647XSL_NEWSML_TO_NEWSML.xml


You're in way over your head bro.
 
Don't appreciate being called a liar. I take this personally. This was as I noted recommended to me by someone I respect.

I don't give a dam if you are some kind "chairman of the board"..don't call me a liar. My reputation means alot to me, and I do not recommend anything I would not or do not use.

The classier thing to do would have been to relay the information without the name calling. You must have taken exception to someone calling you on your posts, I can tell you are not used to being challenged. I can accept research and will acknowlege if I have bad information.

Do not call me names again....I don't give a dam who you are.
 
Lifterforlife said:
Don't appreciate being called a liar. I take this personally. This was as I noted recommended to me by someone I respect.

I don't give a dam if you are some kind "chairman of the board"..don't call me a liar. My reputation means alot to me, and I do not recommend anything I would not or do not use.

The classier thing to do would have been to relay the information without the name calling. You must have taken exception to someone calling you on your posts, I can tell you are not used to being challenged. I can accept research and will acknowlege if I have bad information.

Do not call me names again....I don't give a dam who you are.
Chill bro,Ulter is a super good bro.No need to get all upset over a simple argument.
:coffee:
 
I am chilling. Not upset at all...take exception to the liar reference is all. Lively debate is what this is all about, it is how we learn. One of the beauties of our sport is the constant learning.

I don't believe anyone on here would intentionally lead folks astray, at least I would hope not.

I enjoy helping folks, as well as learning more along the way. I do this because I like it.
 
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