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Primobolan alone?!?
- Thread starter fAnTaSy_X
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Depends how long you take it for. IF its a short cycle and you are only taking primo, I'd take 500+/week. If it is a longer one then 200mg per week might be good. That is not supposed to shut down your natural testosterone levels. DOn't excpet to become the next Mr. O with that cycle though.
dude, just to put in my quick two cents: it does not matter what any steriod can do for you right now. you are 19 yo and 140lbs---what? you need to eat, eat, eat, lift, lift, lift, and wait a couple of years before starting. also it is very important that during these 2 years of trianing, that you do some serious research and learning about AS- and that is my 2 cents!
kid said:dude, just to put in my quick two cents: it does not matter what any steriod can do for you right now. you are 19 yo and 140lbs---what? you need to eat, eat, eat, lift, lift, lift, and wait a couple of years before starting. also it is very important that during these 2 years of trianing, that you do some serious research and learning about AS- and that is my 2 cents!
i have done alot of reasearch...and i have a ton of friends like me that have started cycles and got huge in like 2 months...so im gonna start one i just need to narrow down my choices a bit
kid said:dude, just to put in my quick two cents: it does not matter what any steriod can do for you right now. you are 19 yo and 140lbs---what? you need to eat, eat, eat, lift, lift, lift, and wait a couple of years before starting. also it is very important that during these 2 years of trianing, that you do some serious research and learning about AS- and that is my 2 cents!
I agree about trying to get a little further naturally.
3 things,
primo can't hurt you at your age, it is a good chocie. I'd hold off on the aromatising compounds like dbol, test, and eq for another 2-3 years though.
In my resposne I didn't see that you were 140. At 140 you will grow very easily off of anything.
Also, I always wonder if alone, 300mg primo/week wont do the same as 200mg primo/week because the 300 is supposed to shut down your natural testosterone levels and the 200 is not. You could just end up with the same amount of anabolic aas in your system on 300 as opposed to 200 but just not have any of your natural testosteorne around. THis is purely speculation, as I don;t have extensive first hand experience with this. 2thick, do you have nay ideas about this??
primo can't hurt you at your age, it is a good chocie. I'd hold off on the aromatising compounds like dbol, test, and eq for another 2-3 years though.
In my resposne I didn't see that you were 140. At 140 you will grow very easily off of anything.
Also, I always wonder if alone, 300mg primo/week wont do the same as 200mg primo/week because the 300 is supposed to shut down your natural testosterone levels and the 200 is not. You could just end up with the same amount of anabolic aas in your system on 300 as opposed to 200 but just not have any of your natural testosteorne around. THis is purely speculation, as I don;t have extensive first hand experience with this. 2thick, do you have nay ideas about this??
Shutting down natural production should be of no consequence when thinking about an AS cycle.
I know that 10-12 pounds can be seen with hard work, a great diet and decent genetics. That is why I believe 300mg/week would be ideal for most people willing to work hard. If some people would rather see huge gains or don't want to work hard, they can try test or stacking for their first cycle.
The only reason I would not use 500+ primo per week is because it is expensive and you will most likely lose all of your hair..lol
I know that 10-12 pounds can be seen with hard work, a great diet and decent genetics. That is why I believe 300mg/week would be ideal for most people willing to work hard. If some people would rather see huge gains or don't want to work hard, they can try test or stacking for their first cycle.
The only reason I would not use 500+ primo per week is because it is expensive and you will most likely lose all of your hair..lol
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Stew Meat
Guest
Bro, primo is one of the safest on the hair (in the top 4). It does not display the androgenic effects on the hair folicle that DHT does.
You can expect some solid gains on 200mg/wk, especially if you use creatine and load with insulin post workout. I've seen good solid 15lb gain with primo/clen/ECA/slin in only 5-6 weeks.
Go over 200mg/wk and you'll probably shut down HPTA.
-Stew
You can expect some solid gains on 200mg/wk, especially if you use creatine and load with insulin post workout. I've seen good solid 15lb gain with primo/clen/ECA/slin in only 5-6 weeks.
Go over 200mg/wk and you'll probably shut down HPTA.
-Stew
Suspension
New member
Im bridging the primo @ 300mg/wk. Im seeing some excellent results in terms of muscle hardness, etc. I think you could put on a good 10lbs in 8 weeks no prob. Thats my goal...
Suspension
New member
Stew-
How did you use your slin?
Morning and Post workout?
How did you use your slin?
Morning and Post workout?
S
Stew Meat
Guest
I used only in the mornings on non workout days and on leg days. If I used it before upper body workout days, the burn was too intense and I found myself not able to finish a workout mostly due to my deltoids feeling like i had injected battery acid.
Start out at 6iu. Go up to 12 in 2 iu increments per day. Even if you don't have problems going hypo at 12, I wouldn't go over it. 10g of sugar per iu is the safest. Consume a meal about 45 minutes after. Keep the fat low and protein high. Get some WPI soon after the 10g/iu of sugar. This is the postworkout plan.
On mornings that I don't workout, I use about 6iu.
-Stew
Start out at 6iu. Go up to 12 in 2 iu increments per day. Even if you don't have problems going hypo at 12, I wouldn't go over it. 10g of sugar per iu is the safest. Consume a meal about 45 minutes after. Keep the fat low and protein high. Get some WPI soon after the 10g/iu of sugar. This is the postworkout plan.
On mornings that I don't workout, I use about 6iu.
-Stew
Myo-genetic
New member
Stew Meat said:
Not true on both accounts. I've seen a former training partner lose hair like a shedding cat when he was on primo. This is a guy who did 100mg of d-bol and over 1500mg of test without problems on previous cycles. Needless to say, his little experiment ended quickly.
You need more like 500mg of Primo to shut down the HPTA. 200mg might reduce your natural test production by about 30% according to blood tests I have seen documented on other boards a long time ago.
Suspension
New member
I plan on popping a few clomid after my primo bridge just in case...
Suspension
New member
Stew-
I used slin, mainly 10iu/post workout, 4 days a week.
I didnt get much from it.
I was using it to come off a cycle. It may have helped a little bit, but I still lost some weight.
Im using Primo/Inectable-B right now. It seems to be working quite well.
I used slin, mainly 10iu/post workout, 4 days a week.
I didnt get much from it.
I was using it to come off a cycle. It may have helped a little bit, but I still lost some weight.
Im using Primo/Inectable-B right now. It seems to be working quite well.
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Stew Meat
Guest
Myo-genetic said:
True on both counts.
Steroid rank in preventing hairloss:
#1 nandralone/Deca
#2 trenbelone/Fina
#3 oxandralone/Anavar
#4 methenolone/Primobolan
#5 oxymetholone/Anadrol, stanozol/Winstrol
#6 dbol and various other testosterone analogs
#3-#5 have no affinity to 5-alpha reductase (finasteride will not be of any benefit)
#1-#2 will worsen hairloss if used with finasteride
#6 will lessen hairloss if used with finasteride
Research for primo and hairloss:
"Relative binding affinities of testosterone, 19-nortestosterone and their 5-alpha reduced derivatives to the androgen receptor and to other androgen-binding proteins (hair folicle)" Journal of Steroid Biochemistry 1982 17:653-60
"Anabolic steroids and competitive metabolism" Exp Clin Endocrin 1986 Jul;87(2):125-32
-"...most notably oxandralone, and secondly, methenolone are thought of as mild and should be favored when hair loss is a worry. However, we can see that nandralone and its analouges are better choices in this regard due to the even greater dissociation between muscle and scalp activity."
I will find and post the research on primobolan's HPTA supressing effects in a minute as soon as I find the journal article.
-Stew
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Stew Meat
Guest
Suspension said:
My body responds very well to insulin, but insulin can't do what other anabolics can do with any safe amount. Insulin sensitivity is often lowered toward the end of the cycle so insulin should be a bigger help post cycle... I'm sure it helped some, especially if you used it to help load creatine, but it will not give you the kind of gains that you saw from your cycle. 10iu is a safe amount to inject as long as you are getting adequate simple sugars per inject (6-10g/iu).
-Stew
S
Stew Meat
Guest
2Thick said:
Thank you ma'am, may I have another
My contradiction to your post was not a personal stab at you... Normally I would have given you or any other mod the benefit of the doubt however, research on hairloss is fresh on my mind as I have been asked to make up no hairloss cycles for several board members. The hair loss free ranking list is not from my personal experience or from hearing from others, but is from emperical research and resulting endocrinogical knowlege. There is almost no means by which primobolan can lead to hairloss as it has very mild androgenic effects on the hair folicle unlike testosterone derivitives.
-Stew
Suspension
New member
Stew-
Did you find that info on the primo?
Did you find that info on the primo?
Myo-genetic
New member
Stew,
There is a fundamental flaw with what you are trying to prove. Yes, you are making a valient attempt to back up what you are saying with those various publications, but you must consider this: Real life and the lab are two completely different things. If they were one and the same, I'd be 300lbs ripped to shreds using Myoplex and HMB ("feels like deca") amoung other supplements that are "proven" to work through their various University studies.
So while in the lab, primo does not directly interact with the reductase enzyme, maybe there is a reaction down the chain of metabolic events thrown out of whack that does cause an adverse reaction. This would explain why my training partner lost so much hair (and he was not the first that I have heard of with this side).
I experience zero sides at any dose of a wide range of gear. But I know others who are so sensitive that they just can't use anything without constant fear of gyno, elevated liver enzymes, severe acne, and hair loss. The lab cannot explain these differences without massive research involving thousands of studies. This is why it takes a billion dollars to develop powerful new medicines....because they have to figure out exactly 'who' experiences 'what' and at what dosages. We don't have the fortune of that kind of research to go by when we use gear since anabolic steroids are currently on the low priority list to drug companies. If we did, we wouldn't need discussion boards to compare notes and personal experimentation as it would all be spelled out for us in the journals. So to quote one or two journals and hail them as all encompassing to everyone is both irresponsible and reckless. I realize you are only trying to help, but be careful with the way you word things. You are highly respected here, and the younger newbies take your every word as the gospel of gear.
There is a fundamental flaw with what you are trying to prove. Yes, you are making a valient attempt to back up what you are saying with those various publications, but you must consider this: Real life and the lab are two completely different things. If they were one and the same, I'd be 300lbs ripped to shreds using Myoplex and HMB ("feels like deca") amoung other supplements that are "proven" to work through their various University studies.
So while in the lab, primo does not directly interact with the reductase enzyme, maybe there is a reaction down the chain of metabolic events thrown out of whack that does cause an adverse reaction. This would explain why my training partner lost so much hair (and he was not the first that I have heard of with this side).
I experience zero sides at any dose of a wide range of gear. But I know others who are so sensitive that they just can't use anything without constant fear of gyno, elevated liver enzymes, severe acne, and hair loss. The lab cannot explain these differences without massive research involving thousands of studies. This is why it takes a billion dollars to develop powerful new medicines....because they have to figure out exactly 'who' experiences 'what' and at what dosages. We don't have the fortune of that kind of research to go by when we use gear since anabolic steroids are currently on the low priority list to drug companies. If we did, we wouldn't need discussion boards to compare notes and personal experimentation as it would all be spelled out for us in the journals. So to quote one or two journals and hail them as all encompassing to everyone is both irresponsible and reckless. I realize you are only trying to help, but be careful with the way you word things. You are highly respected here, and the younger newbies take your every word as the gospel of gear.
S
Stew Meat
Guest
University tests and all research that is not funded by the company that designs, administers, or manufactors the product that is being studied, is done on a very strict and empirical basis. You will not show me one study that was done by a university or other research facility that is not aplicable in the real world. The quotes that you provided above were from the company's advertisements that made the product. All research that is published in respectable journals if VIABLE unless proven otherwise. You have been proven to be wrong and I can see that you resent that. However, this does not change the purpose and credibility of research studies. Journal editors heavilly scrutinize each study and go over it with a fine toothed comb. You can not simply conduct an experiment and have it published. Reliability is of the utmost importance in every reputable journal's decision of whether to publish the research.
There are hundreds of experiments and areas of research that will not be duplicated becasue there are no alternate explanations and no reliable descrepincies with data and so do not merrit further experimenting. If something is proven to be signifigant, it is signifigant. Applications in bodybuilders are NOT signifigant as there are hundreds of other reasons for outcomes outside of the independant variable. Studies show that methalone has VERY LOW activity in the scalp/hair folicle. This is final. You will never find another study about this because it has already been proven. Unless a conflict in data or better testing procedures can be found, there is no point to redoing an existing experiment; it is "gospel."
Studies are done on individuals that reflect the pool of mass population of the media for which the study is devised. Studies on people using primo show VERY LOW activity in the scalp. Using primo alone as the gentleman above was questioning, will not cause any notable hairloss. However, eventually you find some people that are different than the aggregate of the population. Where most people's body behaves a certain way, you'll always have an odd ball. Since the probablity of someone being this odd ball is very low, it does not take away from the integrity of the study. It is doubtful that anyone would show any signifigant increase in androgenic scalp activity from primo however. Humans are governed by laws of biochemistry.
-Stew
There are hundreds of experiments and areas of research that will not be duplicated becasue there are no alternate explanations and no reliable descrepincies with data and so do not merrit further experimenting. If something is proven to be signifigant, it is signifigant. Applications in bodybuilders are NOT signifigant as there are hundreds of other reasons for outcomes outside of the independant variable. Studies show that methalone has VERY LOW activity in the scalp/hair folicle. This is final. You will never find another study about this because it has already been proven. Unless a conflict in data or better testing procedures can be found, there is no point to redoing an existing experiment; it is "gospel."
Studies are done on individuals that reflect the pool of mass population of the media for which the study is devised. Studies on people using primo show VERY LOW activity in the scalp. Using primo alone as the gentleman above was questioning, will not cause any notable hairloss. However, eventually you find some people that are different than the aggregate of the population. Where most people's body behaves a certain way, you'll always have an odd ball. Since the probablity of someone being this odd ball is very low, it does not take away from the integrity of the study. It is doubtful that anyone would show any signifigant increase in androgenic scalp activity from primo however. Humans are governed by laws of biochemistry.
-Stew
S
Stew Meat
Guest
HPTA is not an all or none as I once thought. But through research on primobolan (methanolone), this is what I have found:
Natural testosterone through release of LH is monitored and regulated by the hypothalamus. Primobolan has a very strong affinity to the androgen receptor and receptors in the hypothalamus have no binding affinity to methanolone (primo). The only reason for HPTA shutdown is indirectly through a feedback loop. If you inject enough methanolone to occupy a large percentage of androgen receptors, your natural testosterone will not be as cabable of finding its appropriate receptors (remember, receptors have a higher affinity toward primo than testosterone) so your natural testosterone will bind to receptors in the hypothalamus instead and result in a slow down of LHRH wich will prevent the release of LH which will prevent the production of natural testosterone in the leydig cells of the testicles.
I can't seem to locate the research, but I know from making a mental note that 200mg will not have much of any effect on HPTA, however, after 300mg/wk, HPTA is signifigantly reduced. I advise that a bridge consist of 200mg/wk or at least below 300mg per week to prevent a feedback of unbound circulating natural testosterone that will halt testosterone production.
-Stew
Natural testosterone through release of LH is monitored and regulated by the hypothalamus. Primobolan has a very strong affinity to the androgen receptor and receptors in the hypothalamus have no binding affinity to methanolone (primo). The only reason for HPTA shutdown is indirectly through a feedback loop. If you inject enough methanolone to occupy a large percentage of androgen receptors, your natural testosterone will not be as cabable of finding its appropriate receptors (remember, receptors have a higher affinity toward primo than testosterone) so your natural testosterone will bind to receptors in the hypothalamus instead and result in a slow down of LHRH wich will prevent the release of LH which will prevent the production of natural testosterone in the leydig cells of the testicles.
I can't seem to locate the research, but I know from making a mental note that 200mg will not have much of any effect on HPTA, however, after 300mg/wk, HPTA is signifigantly reduced. I advise that a bridge consist of 200mg/wk or at least below 300mg per week to prevent a feedback of unbound circulating natural testosterone that will halt testosterone production.
-Stew
Myo-genetic
New member
Stew Meat said:
You have "proven" nothing other than the fact that you are the one with the fragile ego, as I didn't need to go there initially.
Your argument is paper-thin and you are arguing on a completely different premise than the point I am trying to make.
I explained why the current research is not good enough, and I get a long-winded explanation to the contrary to the effect of: it's true because we have nothing better to go by.
This is pointless, again, because I am comparing valuable real-world results with data gathered from mice or a test-tube, and the two cannot be compared.
over 200 mgr/week and i have it
I do not want to become between you guys, so here is my personal experience with Primo:
no hairloss, not even with my 600 mgr/week cycle (11 weeks, had to stop for BP and prostate problems).
When going over 200 mgr/week, ball shrinking.
Funny anecdote on the 600 mgr/week. Was doing that together with PGF for around 8-9 weeks, but as soon as the PGF was stopped and was doing the Primo alone, BP went up and prostate problems where too much.
Strange coïncedence?
I do not want to become between you guys, so here is my personal experience with Primo:
no hairloss, not even with my 600 mgr/week cycle (11 weeks, had to stop for BP and prostate problems).
When going over 200 mgr/week, ball shrinking.
Funny anecdote on the 600 mgr/week. Was doing that together with PGF for around 8-9 weeks, but as soon as the PGF was stopped and was doing the Primo alone, BP went up and prostate problems where too much.
Strange coïncedence?
C
Cuts
Guest
Well Fantasy, looks like you got more than you bargained for ? A used-to-be scrawny friend of mine just did his first cycle: Sust, Primo, Winny. Now he's a friggin monster. However, I don't recommend that for you. I say stick with the Primo @ 200mg/week, along with lottsa clean calories and heavy lifting for 10-12 weeks. Good luck!
? A used-to-be scrawny friend of mine just did his first cycle: Sust, Primo, Winny. Now he's a friggin monster. However, I don't recommend that for you. I say stick with the Primo @ 200mg/week, along with lottsa clean calories and heavy lifting for 10-12 weeks. Good luck!
