Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Primo and HDL Cholesterol
- Thread starter wootool
- Start date
I have done a lot of research on this very subject. I can only go by what others have had for experiences (I always stack my primo with var so I can not give an accurate assessment). Most that I have questioned (people that have the same concerns as you and I and get a lipid profile done pre, post and during cycle) have found little to no affects on blood lipids with a primo only cycle. Dosages ranges from 400mg PW to 800mg PW. Changes (in those that had them) do not appear to be dose dependant. For the sake of info if you would get a lipid profile done pre, post and during I would be very interested in the results you get.
BTW, my last cycle (400mg primo PW / 50mg var PD) brought my ldl from 82 down to 26 in just 2 weeks. BUt I am sure the var was the cause. My total went from 211 down to 162 but the drop was mainly due to decreased HDL.
BTW, my last cycle (400mg primo PW / 50mg var PD) brought my ldl from 82 down to 26 in just 2 weeks. BUt I am sure the var was the cause. My total went from 211 down to 162 but the drop was mainly due to decreased HDL.
wootool
New member
interesting - yeah theres too much other stuff in me now for the tests to mean anything, but maybe when I'm relatively clean I'll bridge with Primo and get some bloodwork benchmarks.bilter said:
Everybody worries about the relatively benign cosmetic sides (hairloss, minor transient gyno, bloating) and dont pay enough attention to the cardiovascular sides that WILL kill you if you juice long enuf.
Last edited:
wootool
New member
lol sorry bro - Georges new system has had the unintended consequence of everybody needing to spread no-cost red K to be able to hit green again. I only got you for 10%.badslinky said:No primo does not act in a similiar fashion as oxan.. primo is good for the lipids... Ill find the article for you. Thanks for the bomb bro.(some people like drama)
just finished up a primo cycle (about 700mg+/week) and got my blood test back. HDL was low (32 vs 40-59 range) and AST (SGOT) was slightly high (43 vs 0-40 range). All in all I think I am doing really well. I threw some test enanthate in their as well nearer the end (500mg/w).
I was on 1g test and 400mgs of eq and brought my hdl up to a 36 from 6. Ive been running half that test currently and 50mgs of var and my hdl has gone back down to 28. I was kinda shocked and i think ill blame the var for that. On a whole my cholesterol was 119 so i was happy.
wootool
New member
galaxy said:
lol did your doctor freak when he saw an HDL of 6 bwahahahah?
I had talked him into scripting me BTG var for awhile (covered by insurence - dam that was sweet), then he finally insisted I go for followup bloodwork and he completely freaked out when I had HDL of about 5 or 6. He said that he has alot of cardiac patients, but mine was the lowest he'd ever seen and he cut me off lol.
the good thing tho is that after going off var, between metamucil, cardio, olive oil/walnuts, nonflush niacin and policosanol, it comes back to normal within less than a month.
p.s. great potential lifesaver tip: while your HDL is impaired, use megadoses of garlic. I use Kyolic Cardiovascular one-a-day formula. Theres a few studies that demonstrate it acts as a super-HDL or replacement HDL, clearing out bad cholesterol and preventing plaque buildup same as the HDL would.
-
galaxy said:
just for information purposes, I did read a study that stated that non flush niaicin was not effective at raising HDL. Regular niacin on the other hand was very effective. In the study they were giving the test subjects 1 asperin 1 hour prior to administration of niacin to combat the flushing effects. Keep in mind niacin, at dosages that have a positive affect on lipids, is hard on the liver.
wootool
New member
bilter said:
nonflush niacin not effective? can you dig up the link for that, or remember where you read it? I've read too many studies that said otherwise.
you sure it was non-flush niacin (inositol hexanicotinate) in the study, and not bufferered/time-released niacin (which is NOT effective at raising HDL????
Non-flush is ineffective. Use Red Yeast Rice at night with Polycosinol.
But the wrong discussion is taking place here. There is no evidence anywhere that short term fluctuations in lipids cause CAD. Even the evidence in long term poor lipids is incomplete because it doesn't take into account the lifestyle of the subjects in the study. The major studies on cholesterol levels being an indicator of future CAD were funded by the companies that sell statins.
When you do a study to determine if lipid profiles are an indicator of future CAD you can't ignore lifestyle. If the subjects eat foods that give them a bad profile throughout their lives but are active and exercise regularly the numbers drop like a rock. Most of the conclusions about lipid profiles were on sedentary and "bad diet" people. Well of course those people are going to be susceptible to CAD later in life. There is case after case, the most famous being David Letterman, of men who had perfect lipid profiles all their lives and still had a heart attack. And vice versa, there are millions of people with poor lipid profiles living CAD free into their 80's and 90's.
Down off soapbox....
The point is that you guys are worrying about lipid profiles during your cycle and it's silly because you're not sedentary, and you're coming off and they go back to normal.
back to normal. CAD takes many years to develop, not 8-10 weeks of a cycle.
But the wrong discussion is taking place here. There is no evidence anywhere that short term fluctuations in lipids cause CAD. Even the evidence in long term poor lipids is incomplete because it doesn't take into account the lifestyle of the subjects in the study. The major studies on cholesterol levels being an indicator of future CAD were funded by the companies that sell statins.
When you do a study to determine if lipid profiles are an indicator of future CAD you can't ignore lifestyle. If the subjects eat foods that give them a bad profile throughout their lives but are active and exercise regularly the numbers drop like a rock. Most of the conclusions about lipid profiles were on sedentary and "bad diet" people. Well of course those people are going to be susceptible to CAD later in life. There is case after case, the most famous being David Letterman, of men who had perfect lipid profiles all their lives and still had a heart attack. And vice versa, there are millions of people with poor lipid profiles living CAD free into their 80's and 90's.
Down off soapbox....
The point is that you guys are worrying about lipid profiles during your cycle and it's silly because you're not sedentary, and you're coming off and they go back to normal.
back to normal. CAD takes many years to develop, not 8-10 weeks of a cycle.
jronimoe15
New member
great info on Var............i have been worried about how it will effect my HDLs.............if it is stacked with EQ, will that help maintain the good lipid levels?? it seems like i've read where EQ actually raises your HDLs.......
Ulter said:
wootool
New member
Ulter said:
1) Tell that to the countless WWF wrestlers and Pro Bodybuilders who die at a young age from cardiovascular events at a greater rate than the general population in spite of their fitness lifestyle.
2) Some of us dont do 10 week cycles
maybe 10 week cruises in between cycles lol.3) as to inositol hexanicotinate being effective at raising HDL
a) A.M.A. El-Enein et al., The Role of Nicotinic Acid and Inositol Hexaniacinate as Anticholesterolemic and Antilipemic Agents. Nutr Rep Intl 28. 1983;899-911.
b) Welsh AL, Eade M. Inositol hexanicotinate for improved nicotinic acid theray. Int Record Med. 1961:174:9-15.
[ PURPOSE-The vasodilating, hypotensive, and hypocholesteremic activities of nicotinic acid are well known; also well known is the lipotropic activity of inositol. This study was undertaken for the purpose of evaluating possible vasodilating, hypotensive, hypocholesteremic, and lipotropic effects of inositol hexanicotinate, when administered orally to patients with selected dermatoses. METHOD & SCOPE- All patients were drawn from private practise; all were observed at weekly intervals during the study period, and only those who faithfully followed prescribed regimens were included in evaluation of results. Fourteen patients who failed to cooperate or who discontinued therapy were omitted from this report. Topical and actinic therapeutic regimens were varied as conditions required; inositol hexanicotinate (taken at mealtime) was the only therapeutic agent administered orally. Daily dosages ranged from 600 to 1800mg., during intervals of from 4 to 12 months. CONCLUSIONS-We conclude from the responses observed during our preliminary studies that inositol hexanicotinate is superior as an oral therapeutic agent to nicotinic acid, for the following reasons: freedom from side effects, slow rate of metabolism, producing sustained release of nicotinic acid (with its vasodilating and hypocholesteremic activities) and of inositol (with its lipotropic effects). ]
Last edited:
1. Where is your proof of that? Where is your proof that more men who are pros die at a rate higher than the general population? You're also forgetting that those who do have episodes are ALL abusing painkillers and/or rec drugs. Unlike the general population.
2. I know
3. I didn't post about Inositol Hexaniacinate
2. I know
3. I didn't post about Inositol Hexaniacinate
wootool
New member
deposition of plaque is a day-to-day proposition. CV disease is a result of these cumulative deposits.
logically, during your impaired HDL periods whether it be 10 weeks or 30 weeks, you'll be depositing more plaque than you would under normal conditions controlling for other factors such as diet and activity level.
whether this is sufficient over time to make a difference in lifespan I guess is unknown but clearly you'll be worse off CV-wise for having cycled.
logically, during your impaired HDL periods whether it be 10 weeks or 30 weeks, you'll be depositing more plaque than you would under normal conditions controlling for other factors such as diet and activity level.
whether this is sufficient over time to make a difference in lifespan I guess is unknown but clearly you'll be worse off CV-wise for having cycled.
jronimoe15
New member
Based on some of these comments, why does everyone say Var is so safe it drives your HDLs to hell?????
Ulter said:
Triple J
New member
wootool said:
your assumption here is an over-simplification. based on this theory one would expect a nearly homogenous distribution of deposits throughout the body. this is never the case. i know, i've done the dissections on cadavers.
first you need damage to the inner lining of the vessel. this takes place in areas of higher turbulence. a risk factor here would be high blood pressure. once damage occurs this sets of an imflammatory reaction that leads to plaque deposition. risk factors here include a physiology that favors run-away inflammation (a chronic problem in aging americans), combined with high circulating LDLs. HDLs being protective, of course
wootool
New member
lets boil it down.Triple J said:
1) during periods of impaired (or practically non-existent) HDL, are you more or less likely to increase CV aging all other things being equal. obviously more likely.
2) while high BP speeds CVD progression, it still occurs in its absence.
3) in any event, high(er) blood pressure is also a side with any of the AAS likely to be used as part of a var stack.
4) as I'm sure you know, low HDL is recognized as an INDEPENDENT risk factor for adverse cardiovascular events.
The_Chemist
New member
Where would i find red yeast rice. Drug store? I serached all the canadian online supplement places and came up empty handed.
Similar threads
