Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below just wondering your thoughts on pre-workout nutrition... i found a great article on pre-workout nuttition and my pc died right in the middle of reading it... the article was saying the preworkout nutrition might be more important than post... Components where the same (carbs and protein) but the sevings where smaller... what do you consume before working out...
pre-workout nutrition
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Lifterforlife
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Pre workout is indeed important. Why someone would not do this baffles me. I would suggest a good complex carb source for long lasting fuel, and a lean protein source.
Pre workout nutrition is indeed as important, maybe more important than post workout. This is in fact due mostly to the fact that if your body does not have adequate "fuel" to draw on, guess what it will draw on?
There is some studies floating around out there also that show biopsies of leg muscle with a pre workout protein drink, and a post workout protein drink. Seems the pre workout drink showed more uptake of amino acids. This was in fact sited years ago, and with the advent of the pwo drink mixes, was kept down to sell products in my opinion. I read this study a good 5-6 yrs. ago. I believe it was again Paul Crib who researched this(AST sports science).
Anyway, my thoughts and experience would lead to one simple conclusion, why not do both? Makes all the sense in the world to me.
As far as the servings, this will simply relate to digestion times, more food, longer wait.
Pre workout nutrition is indeed as important, maybe more important than post workout. This is in fact due mostly to the fact that if your body does not have adequate "fuel" to draw on, guess what it will draw on?
There is some studies floating around out there also that show biopsies of leg muscle with a pre workout protein drink, and a post workout protein drink. Seems the pre workout drink showed more uptake of amino acids. This was in fact sited years ago, and with the advent of the pwo drink mixes, was kept down to sell products in my opinion. I read this study a good 5-6 yrs. ago. I believe it was again Paul Crib who researched this(AST sports science).
Anyway, my thoughts and experience would lead to one simple conclusion, why not do both? Makes all the sense in the world to me.
As far as the servings, this will simply relate to digestion times, more food, longer wait.
been doing the Ulter boogie: two rALA with my preWO feed that involves about 60grams of pure complex carb and some protein source... usually low in fats to keep the digestion time down if i can...
i dont always remember to do this, but i can hang a sign on the times i have made PRs in last two months and each one says YOU REMEMBERED TO EAT!!!
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i dont always remember to do this, but i can hang a sign on the times i have made PRs in last two months and each one says YOU REMEMBERED TO EAT!!!
.
Lifterforlife
New member
BCAA's are not a protein source. 
hugstable said:
Everyone has a different theory. Carbs...protein ...fats ... drinks ...
For me it is a small amount of fruit ... berries or grapes. I eat them while on the bike for 15 minutes. Not too many ... I don't wanna puke ... but enough to get a blast.
Then I sip decaf coffee with a small amount of whey, creatine and green power in it throughout the workout.
By 5:30 AM, I am charged and working. Energy is high for a full 90 minutes.
Lifterforlife
New member
JavaGuru said:Well, assuming amino acids are the basis of protein I would disagree. Especially considering all protein sources are broken down to their constituent amino acids to be utilized......
You would be wrong. BCAA's are but 3 amino acids, leucine, isoleucine, and valine. There are The 13 non-essential amino acids are alanine, arginine, aspartic acid, cysteine, cystine, glutamic acid, glutamine, glycine, hydroxyproline, proline, serine, & tyrosine. You are thinking of the 8 that are the building blocks of protein.
You specifically state in your original post "you use BCAA's for your protein source".
Maybe you should do some research before you "disagree" quite so easily.
Lifterforlife
New member
JavaGuru said:
Sorry bro, again you are wrong. Semantics or not, your statement is incorrect, and I don't believe "everyone" knew what you meant. For instance, the poster after you asked where can he buy some BCAA's.
We are here to help folks, not confuse them. The supplement companies do a good enough job of that. A 2 minute search with any search engine would have yeilded the results that I was right and your statement incorrect.
As far as peanut gallery, I beg to differ. I can and do offer valid scientific backup of my statements, how about you?
Not to be fecitious here, but how do folks get their "karma" on this site? Betting on it? I know it is easy, I lost 50 points Thursday on Dallas(dam field goal kickers!).
I for the life of me cannot understand why folks cannot simply admit wrong, and move on with the day.
MikeMartial
New member
Lifterforlife said:
Yes, and thank god for knowledgable members here like yourself.
Lifterforlife said:
People can give each other "karma", as indicated at the bottom left on the post. Check your profile, and you'll see I gave some green for a previous post of yours. With time/# of posts/amount of karma you have, your "karmic power" will go up, and you'll be able to add more karma to others.
Lifterforlife
New member
Thanks Mike.....nice thing to say. And thanks for the heads up on the K. Will have to start giving some out for good posts.
i like lifterforlifes approach very much and have been reading like crazy over the last days on protein windo PWO and i am indeed changing my thoughts on PWO nutrition in a big way, thanks LFL!
as far as preworkout nut, i am still in the realm of simple protein(ISO AGB is easy for me and no nausia or heart burn later on) and complex carb (30-60gms of maltodextrin has been the choice lately, and i think its working well) ... works well for me from experience thus far..
as far as preworkout nut, i am still in the realm of simple protein(ISO AGB is easy for me and no nausia or heart burn later on) and complex carb (30-60gms of maltodextrin has been the choice lately, and i think its working well) ... works well for me from experience thus far..
javaguru
Banned
Lifterforlife said:Sorry bro, again you are wrong. Semantics or not, your statement is incorrect, and I don't believe "everyone" knew what you meant. For instance, the poster after you asked where can he buy some BCAA's.
We are here to help folks, not confuse them. The supplement companies do a good enough job of that. A 2 minute search with any search engine would have yeilded the results that I was right and your statement incorrect.
As far as peanut gallery, I beg to differ. I can and do offer valid scientific backup of my statements, how about you?
Not to be fecitious here, but how do folks get their "karma" on this site? Betting on it? I know it is easy, I lost 50 points Thursday on Dallas(dam field goal kickers!).
I for the life of me cannot understand why folks cannot simply admit wrong, and move on with the day.
When someone asks, "Where can I purchase X " you can't assume anything other than they were asking where to purchase product X. Otherwise, they would have asked, "What are BCAA's?" I'm Not trying to be a dick but it's a logical fallacy. I certainly admit I could have been more precise by simplying saying," I use bcaa's in my shake." I just really take issue when people try to play internet cowboy when everyone understands the point of the post. Also, for the record I use a "natural" BCAA peptide which contains all EAA's so it does qualify as a protein source but is sold as a BCAA supplement, it's theta aminos by protein factory if anyone is curious.
Lifterforlife
New member
JavaGuru said:
Can't let it go, huh bro? Like drawing more attention to yourself being wrong? You are however getting dangerously close to admitting you were wrong. If you had not spouted off in the first place, none of this would be going on.
You cut me deep bro, cut me deep. Does this mean <gasp, dare I say it>, we are not going to be best buds?
No matter how you try to reword it, even now you are still wrong. There is no possible way a BCAA product can contain EAA's. It is more like an AA product that contains added BCAA's.
I have been going to PF for a long time, maybe you can link us to the product?
javaguru
Banned
Lifterforlife said:Can't let it go, huh bro? Like drawing more attention to yourself being wrong? You are however getting dangerously close to admitting you were wrong. If you had not spouted off in the first place, none of this would be going on.
You cut me deep bro, cut me deep. Does this mean <gasp, dare I say it>, we are not going to be best buds?
No matter how you try to reword it, even now you are still wrong. There is no possible way a BCAA product can contain EAA's. It is more like an AA product that contains added BCAA's.
I have been going to PF for a long time, maybe you can link us to the product?
Borly, go to their website, go to supplements..look at theta aminos; I don't know if they still list the AA profile but it is a complete protein. Like I said, you can be an internet cowboy all you want but everyone knew what I was talking about on the thread. I've been giving protein advice on this forum for years.....do a search. Posting the amino acids doesn't make you an expert; I've given more than one lesson in biochem......
Lifterforlife
New member
JavaGuru said:
If it is a complete protein bro, then it is not a BCAA supplement.
So, are they peptide bonded or free form? Do you have any idea? If you are buying this product, link to it. This is really getting very tiresome. Debating with an unarmed man is pointless.
Lifterforlife
New member
JavaGuru said:
Hydrolyzed protein is basically pre-digested. There isn't much protein left, its basically amino acids and some small peptides. Hydrolysation of proteins simply means the breaking of peptide bonds.
No matter how you try to change the topic, if it is a full spectrum protein, even with 80% added BCAA's, which I doubt is out there, it is still a protein source with added BCAA's, not a BCAA supplement.
Bringing different things into the discussion does not win a discussion, usually a last resort before personal attacks, this is when a person knows they have lost a discussion. Thanks for admitting you have no case. Peace, out.
Lifterforlife
New member
ChefWide said:
Chef, I wanted to get back with you on that "approach". That article that I posted was simply for reading material, and draw what conclusions one will from it.
I personally have a few problems with it. 1st and no. 1 on my question list is the "myth" of antioxidants actually hurting pwo. This is non sensical to me, I have been researching antioxidants for the better part of the last 30 yrs., and this flies in the face of all my research. He for one does not reference it at all, instead stating something nonsensical, one paper(Childs and buddies (2001))...what kind of paper is that?
I have other problems with it also.
Anyway, if you have ever read David Barr, his style is always to "debunk" conventional wisdom. Many times he makes valid points, but this is how he is "heard". These days to have anything published, you must be different so to speak.
He lists tons of references, but if you cross reference many of them, they don't really relate to his argument.
It is also wrong to pick one study and use it. Anyone who researches knows there are always conflicting research. The defining aspect of a research paper is naturally repeatability. Meaning, if you do this again, will you get the exact same result.
A fine example is caffine in drinks research. Doing a research study on it, I found one that states that caffine in coffee, soda etc. in fact acts like a diruetic. Conventional wisdom, right? Well, I found 3 that absolutely go counter to that one!
My point is maybe don't take too much of that paper to heart.
G
gettinripped
Guest
.....as the world turns.....
what a soap opera, i'm hooked
what a soap opera, i'm hooked
javaguru
Banned
pro·tein ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prtn, -t-n)Lifterforlife said:
n.
Any of a group of complex organic macromolecules that contain carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and usually sulfur and are composed of one or more chains of amino acids. Proteins are fundamental components of all living cells and include many substances, such as enzymes, hormones, and antibodies, that are necessary for the proper functioning of an organism. They are essential in the diet of animals for the growth and repair of tissue and can be obtained from foods such as meat, fish, eggs, milk, and legumes.
I guess a poly peptide is a protein...I'm not trying to "win" anything as everyone already understood the point of my post and the fact you assumed I was using a free form BCAA supplement doesn't change the fact my post was accurate based on what I am consuming. Perhaps you should have asked what I was using before posting?
[edit] If you argue the validity of protein factory's product then take it up with them. So if I have a "Whey protein" supplement which is only required to be 80% protein(for a concentrate) I can't call it a " protein supplement" since it isn't 100% pure????? So what shall we call it????
javaguru
Banned
BTW, here is the definition of a supplement...
sup·ple·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spl-mnt)
n.
Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole.
A section added to a book or document to give further information or to correct errors.
A separate section devoted to a special subject inserted into a periodical, such as a newspaper.
Mathematics. The angle or arc that when added to a given angle or arc makes 180° or a semicircle. Also called supplementary angle.
So, if I consume a product that is designed to provide more than the naturally occuring amount it's a supplement. I don't know a single naturally occurring product containing more BCAA's....therefore...it's a supplement!
sup·ple·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spl-mnt)
n.
Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole.
A section added to a book or document to give further information or to correct errors.
A separate section devoted to a special subject inserted into a periodical, such as a newspaper.
Mathematics. The angle or arc that when added to a given angle or arc makes 180° or a semicircle. Also called supplementary angle.
So, if I consume a product that is designed to provide more than the naturally occuring amount it's a supplement. I don't know a single naturally occurring product containing more BCAA's....therefore...it's a supplement!
Lifterforlife
New member
Lifterforlife said:
I wanted to put this up front again for Chef to hopefully see when he is on again.
DZLS
New member
i work out in the morning and it's hard for me to eat and have an hour before i get into the gym... I usually eat, and then have to be in the gym 30-45 minutes later...
is there something i can take that would be absorb quicker along with my breakfast... i guess i'm asking if it would be optimal to have a protien shake with my breakfast...?
is there something i can take that would be absorb quicker along with my breakfast... i guess i'm asking if it would be optimal to have a protien shake with my breakfast...?
Lifterforlife
New member
diesel gli said:
In your case, and anyone with limited time, a "liquid meal" is the best route.
DZLS
New member
i'm gonna go ahead and incorporate some whey into my breakfast from now on...
then my other issue is when to take something like the No-Xplode...? You're supposed to take it on an empty stomach...
should i take it upon waking, then wait 10 mintues to eat, or just eat and then take the shit anyhow...?
working 2nd shift has it's advantages, but also its disadvantages...
then my other issue is when to take something like the No-Xplode...? You're supposed to take it on an empty stomach...
should i take it upon waking, then wait 10 mintues to eat, or just eat and then take the shit anyhow...?
working 2nd shift has it's advantages, but also its disadvantages...
Lifterforlife
New member
I work second shift also, works well for me. I have never used No xplode, what does the label say?
****edit....looking it up, it is a pre workout supp. I would take it 30-45 min. pre workout. An example of what I do, since we work the same shift or close it seems, is I eat breakfast. An hour later get ready to leave for the gym. It takes me approximately 20 min. to get to the gym, another 10 to change clothes, etc. So, I take it right before I leave, this makes my timing pretty close to what the optimal time should be. I have not used NO Xplode, but I have used very similar NOX/creatine/cell volumizer products, and this is how I utilize them.
****edit....looking it up, it is a pre workout supp. I would take it 30-45 min. pre workout. An example of what I do, since we work the same shift or close it seems, is I eat breakfast. An hour later get ready to leave for the gym. It takes me approximately 20 min. to get to the gym, another 10 to change clothes, etc. So, I take it right before I leave, this makes my timing pretty close to what the optimal time should be. I have not used NO Xplode, but I have used very similar NOX/creatine/cell volumizer products, and this is how I utilize them.
Last edited:
steig
New member
For a long time my preworkout nutrition was terrible. Even when I was getting diets from personal trainers, I would sometimes never have carbs or have foods that were through me in 15 minutes. I would highly recommend you buy the book 'Nutrient Timing' is is very good in describing what is needed in the body and when from preworkout through post workout. It's a quick read and I've gained a lot of insight from it.
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