Post Cycle Recovery ??????

[browncloud]

Just getting ready to finish up and 8 week cycle of Tren 75mgs for the first 6 weeks and 100mgs test prop last 6 weeks, along with var at 40mgs a day for the first 6 weeks and the last 20 days I have been running 50mgs winny. I also have been running arimidex at 1mg EOD, and provirum at 50mgs ED. I am getting ready to start clomid, and was wondering what your thoughts on adding noveldex, or continuing the arimidex through recovery, I deffinatly will be dropping the provirum. I already have the noveldex and dont really want to spend another 100 bucks on a box of arim, but i heard it really helps with post cycle acne and recovery. Or should i run all three?

 

[TECH ONE]

It can't hurt to run all three, but i would just pick up another a-dex and use it a long with the clomid. Save the Nolva for when you will need it (ie. gyno signs pop up).

 

[browncloud]

bump anyone else!

 

[Juice Authority]

Just getting ready to finish up and 8 week cycle of Tren 75mgs for the first 6 weeks and 100mgs test prop last 6 weeks, along with var at 40mgs a day for the first 6 weeks and the last 20 days I have been running 50mgs winny. I also have been running arimidex at 1mg EOD, and provirum at 50mgs ED. I am getting ready to start clomid, and was wondering what your thoughts on adding noveldex, or continuing the arimidex through recovery, I deffinatly will be dropping the provirum. I already have the noveldex and dont really want to spend another 100 bucks on a box of arim, but i heard it really helps with post cycle acne and recovery. Or should i run all three?

I use both Nolva and Clomid post-cycle. I modeled my post-cycle routine along these lines.

Posted by Big Cat:

The choice of a Tamoxifen/clomiphene/spironolactone combination

The choice for a tamoxifen/Clomiphene combo is primarily because of two factors. Only one relevant study (1) came up as far as recovery after a stack of products (testosterone and nandrolone) was used for twelve weeks, utilized HCG and both clomiphene and tamoxifen to achieve a complete recovery of the HPTA to acceptable levels in 45 days. The second reason is the raging war over which is the better post-cycle drug, clomiphene or tamoxifen has lead to several conclusions. The first is that while 150 mg of clomiphene and 20 mg of tamoxifen have lead to roughly a similar increase in LH levels (17) , but that with the high dosing of clomiphene over time there are certain disadvantages. Such as that it may damage eyesight and may act as a weak estrogen (18) in undesirable places (like the pituitary). So using tamoxifen alongside it will allow us to lower the dose and decrease the chance of these side-effects and add the distinct benefit that Tamoxifen (being the stronger of the two) will prevent the clomiphene from exerting any much influence at the pituitary, and that it will increase LH responsiveness to GnRH (17) where Clomiphene does not. Clomiphene is still used as it seems to offer other advantages, such as an increase in SHBG (19), which may seem like a bad thing at first, but which may decrease androgen-related negative feedback and may thus be in our advantage.

 

[satchboogie]

oh my...

nelson would love this one. uh juice?

 

[Juice Authority]

oh my...

nelson would love this one. uh juice?

Nelson's theory on recovery post-cycle lacks merit or anything of relevance. Big Cat, on the hand, backs up his theories with facts and studies. I think I'll go with Big Cat on this one.

 

[Riker29]

Nelson's theory on recovery post-cycle lacks merit or anything of relevance. Big Cat, on the hand, backs up his theories with facts and studies. I think I'll go with Big Cat on this one.

Given what that gusy started, ity would be intersting to see what he recommends then for a total regimen using HCG, Nov, and Clomid, how much of each, and when.

 

[Juice Authority]

Given what that gusy started, ity would be intersting to see what he recommends then for a total regimen using HCG, Nov, and Clomid, how much of each, and when.

Who Big Cat? This is what he recommended to me:

Ideally you want both your anti-estrogen treatment and your HCG to start near the beginning of your last week.

Week 1-10 : cycle

Week 10,11,12 : HCG, but try a less frequent pattern, perhaps this is the problem. For reasons I can't explain, some people react better to a less frequent dosing, others to more frequent dosing. Instead of 500 ed, you could go for 1500 every 3 days, or 3000/3000/1500/1500 every 5 days

Start the Nolva week 10 at a steady 20 mg and continue to run it until you come off the clomid. Remember that Nolva offers us the distinct advantage of sensitizing LH response to GnRH.

Start the clomid at a dose of 150 mg for weeks 12 and 13, then lower it to 100 for weeks 14 and 15.

I would also consider the use of 50 mg of the anti-androgen spironolactone during week 12 to speed up the progress.

The only flaw in this is that you may feel a little down in weeks 12 and 13.

 

[Juice Authority]

I'm going to start clomid 1 week after cycle, that's two weeks after last long-acting injectable, and it is run for a total of 4 weeks. I'd say that's enough time for it to clear wouldn't you ? In all that time no estrogen has been allowed to act at the estrogen receptor in the hypothalamus or the pituitary since Nolva was ran from the time of that injection the full 6 weeks, and clomid was added after two week, androgens have far cleared below baseline by 6 weeks after the last injection, HCG has solved our testicular shrinkage, at least enough to start cranking out some serious testosterone by this point. In fact going by the charts (this is not evidence but it serves only to substantiate his claim) it shows LH and FSH to be well within normal range again and testosterone in the low normal range. Complete recovery in other words.

 

[satchboogie]

JUICE...

i really enjoyed and appreciated nelsons views and opinions. i was very dissapointed that you guys had to have that discussion which ultimately forced him to leave. but although i strongly agreed with most of his theories, i wasnt able to digest his anti-clomid thesis. it just didnt click.

so many users reported good results from clomid that i just wouldnt even consider risking his approach and maybe sacrificing muscle. no way!

 

[HomeBody]

This is what was told to me

Ideal Schedule
Post Cycle Recovery

You need to stimulate both the LH (lutenizing hormone) and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) to get full recovery off cycle. To do this, you need to use two drugs in combination. Clomid/Clomiphene stimulates LH and will restore testicular size. Arimidex/Ana will stimulate FSH and stop the negative effects of coming off the Clomid. As well, it will keep you from storing fat and will keep your own natural levels elevated once up.

Plan your post-cycle phase into 4 weeks.

Week 1—100mgs of Clomid per day and .5 mgs of Arimidex ED.
Week 2—50mgs of Clomid per day an .5 mgs of Arimidex ED
Week 3--.25 mgs of Arimidex ED.
Week 4--.25 mgs of Arimidex EOD.

If your balls are in particularly bad shape, do the Clomid at 100mgs per day for the second week too. ED--everyday, EOD--every other day.


The Nolva is for early signs of gyno....ie that dirty little lump.

Homz

 

[DeepZenPill]

Nelson's theory on recovery post-cycle lacks merit or anything of relevance. Big Cat, on the hand, backs up his theories with facts and studies. I think I'll go with Big Cat on this one.

Yeah, too bad Big Cat has never done a cycle in his life, meaning he's never had to use post cycle therapy. Studies can only go so far, but experience is the mother of all science. I respect Big Cat for his knowledge of anabolics, but I just can't understand how he can go around giving advice on things he's never used. My friend listened to him and used nolva post cycle and didn't recover for over a month. Big Cat lost tons of credibility with me on after that debacle.

 

[Juice Authority]

JUICE...

i really enjoyed and appreciated nelsons views and opinions. i was very dissapointed that you guys had to have that discussion which ultimately forced him to leave. but although i strongly agreed with most of his theories, i wasnt able to digest his anti-clomid thesis. it just didnt click.

so many users reported good results from clomid that i just wouldnt even consider risking his approach and maybe sacrificing muscle. no way!

Be that as it may, no one "forced" Nelson to leave. He decided that on his own when he couldn't rally support for his anti-clomid theories and was proven wrong by study after study. He just couldn't handle the fact that he was wrong. Instead, he chose to act like a child, throw a tantrum and make this grandiose exit. I wasn't questioning the merit of his other theories, all I questioned was his position on clomid that in spite invalidating evidence to the contrary he vehemently to the bitter end. I even offered to leave the board and not post here anymore but no one thought that was necessary.

 

[satchboogie]

i hear what you're saying and i witnessed the whole thing.

i admire you for offering to leave the forum, but let me ask you a dead honest question.

would you really have left?

 

[Juice Authority]

Yeah, too bad Big Cat has never done a cycle in his life, meaning he's never had to use post cycle therapy. Studies can only go so far, but experience is the mother of all science. I respect Big Cat for his knowledge of anabolics, but I just can't understand how he can go around giving advice on things he's never used. My friend listened to him and used nolva post cycle and didn't recover for over a month. Big Cat lost tons of credibility with me on after that debacle.

I believe Big Cat's position is to use Nolva along with Clomid for the reasons stated above. I'm sure Big Cat will be deeply offended to learn that he's lost credibility with you. I mean afterall, who is Big Cat, right? What has he contributed to both the Internet BB world and real life situations? Even Fonz will tell you that Big Cat is no idiot and knows what the hell he's talking about. Why don't you go share this view of yours over at BB.com and see how long you last over there.

 

[Juice Authority]

i hear what you're saying and i witnessed the whole thing.

i admire you for offering to leave the forum, but let me ask you a dead honest question.

would you really have left?

Absolutely, still would be willing to leave if the mods and senior members here felt it would do some good. I'm a member of many boards but this is my home. However, if me being here does more harm than good I'd be willing to go. It's not that important to me.

 

[satchboogie]

good man.

the hardest concept for me to grasp is that he was on HRT all year long. i mean, how can you possibly talk about post therapy when you're on full time?

dont get me wrong, i respect him tremendously but on HRT the rules change. differnt ballpark, differnt sport.

 

[browncloud]

Well it looks like a good old debate started on this tread! I am a little confused. I want to just do clomid and was thinking of adding the noveldex or the arim. I have the nolvel already and it is cheep as hell here in T-land so that is not and issue. I have read that the arim really helps with acne and T levels boost post cycle. There is always so much contirdictory info on this board. I know everyone is diffirent but I just want to make it as simple as possible.

Clomid
300mgs day one
100 mgs the next 7 days
50 until the 21st day

nolveldex?
Arim?

worth it or not?