Police brutality website- unbelievable shit!

[Julez]

And no, it's not all happening in far Eastern country's, it's happening in the UK and the US.

I have'nt read all the storys but I'm pretty digusted at what I've read so far...... FAR MORE offensive to me than any avatar or link I've seen on Elite.

http://www.tao.ca/~cobp/Bulletin-7-eng.pdf

read this first, long acrobat document, like a catalogue of police crimes

or

http://www.tao.ca

for the main site.

 

[buttplug]

I'd rather not explain how much I despise police officers in general. But thanks for reinforcing the reasons behind my hatred for them.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

There is something inherently wrong with a class of people whose job it is to regulate the behavior of other people.

Only a certain type of person will be drawn to that kind of work. Unfortuantely, it is the wrong people, by and large.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Tests show cops to be quite similar to criminals.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Tests show cops to be quite similar to criminals.

take away the protection of the law and that is all they are, they are just criminals with a larger purpose. Kidnapping, harassment, stalking, criminal confinement, intimidation with a deadly weapon, assault, battery. Cops do it daily, its just legal and semi necessary for them to do it.

The incident where Eric hall shot that families dog still bothers me. I know for a fact he won't be held accountable for his actions, who would want to appear soft on crime by holding police accountable like that?

 

[primetime21]

It takes a different type of person to spend his life risking his life for others. While there are some bad seeds(each and every cop that gave me a traffic ticket), there far more good ones. You only hear about the bad ones, so you generalize. good for you. Now lets see how many of you are willing to wake up every morning, kiss your wife and kids goodbye, knowing that you may get killed doing your job. Any takers, or are we all going to continue to type on our nice little desktops at work in our air conditioned offices/cubicles?

 

[Lao Tzu]

U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Fatalities per 100,000
Year 1999

Commercial Fishermen 162
Timber Cutters 154
Air Pilots 65
Construction Laborers 37
Garbage Collectors 34
Truck Drivers 28
Electricians 12
Gardeners (non farm) 11
Police 11
Carpenters 7

 

[Lao Tzu]

damn those pigs, they're all trouble makers.

Hate The Sin But Love The Sinner

 

[gtrcivic]

Never forget the atrocties in Waco, Ruby Ridge....ever see a cop do the speed limit, not tailgate you at nite to get you to speed up, change lanes without signaling, run a red light or make a rolling stop at a stop sign ???? Any layman get caught doing it, you're in for a ticket.

Then you got the cops shooting their fellow officers working undercover in NYC metros, DC. Robbing dope dealers for their cash and drugs..

Busting people for prositution.. Wash officer made a hooker blow him in exchange of not arresting her... Tosses the condom out of his squad car.. She comes back picks it up and turns his ass in with DNA evidence.. Did it to others as well. Now serving some time.

Paybacks a bitch mother f'er !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[primetime21]

In 2001, 149 police officers were killed on the job, which amounted to 2.9 percent of all work related deaths. And i am presuming that they werent killed trying to catch a fish or chop down a tree, but they were killed trying to save someone else's life or protect the public in one way or another. I think there is a difference between someone who dies merely trying to make a living and someone who dies trying to save a life.

http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Fatalities per 100,000
Year 1999

Commercial Fishermen 162
Timber Cutters 154
Air Pilots 65
Construction Laborers 37
Garbage Collectors 34
Truck Drivers 28
Electricians 12
Gardeners (non farm) 11
Police 11
Carpenters 7

Damn, garbage collecting is more dangerous than being a cop

 

[primetime21]

primetime21, please disable the following buttons on your telephone: 9-1-1

I did it, and the cops stopped beating me and they stopped taking my lunch money.

now I can live in peace, knowing that a cop is not around. i'd much rather let my neighborhood get overrun with thugs, rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

It's funny that there can be assholes at every other occupation, but if god forbid there are some assholes in law enforcement then they all must be assholes. Like i said, i have had my fair share of problems with a few officers, but if you get to know a few, you will see that the majority are damn good people and are willing to die for you. Hopefully, no officer ever makes the mistake of trying to save your life.

 

[guards]

People have a tendency to remember the negative instead of the positive.


The number of GOOD police officers far outnumbers the BAD police officers. Yet, it is the BAD policer officers that everyone uses as their standard.


Think you could do a better job? Is so, stop bitching and do it. Otherwise, shut your hole.

 

[primetime21]

sorry about my previous statement, I misread some shit... that statement I made was misdirected and i ended up putting your name on it for some reason. it was meant towards the other people so outspoken about how criminal-like cops are.

I just re-read your previous posts on this read. sorry for the mistake.

no problem bro, i misinterpreted your post as well.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

It takes a different type of person to spend his life risking his life for others. While there are some bad seeds(each and every cop that gave me a traffic ticket), there far more good ones. You only hear about the bad ones, so you generalize. good for you. Now lets see how many of you are willing to wake up every morning, kiss your wife and kids goodbye, knowing that you may get killed doing your job. Any takers, or are we all going to continue to type on our nice little desktops at work in our air conditioned offices/cubicles?

Cops get paid right? Decent salaries + overtime opportunities. great benefits? Job security...how often do you hear about police cutbacks?

before you claim cops are underpaid, remember that the average salary in the US for a college educated male is $37,000.

A number of jobs are more risky than being a cop. It's not all about risking life for others pal.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Damn, I think we need to salute those brave fisherman who risk their lives to bring us food.

 

[bodytemple75]

My advice...

These Police Officers should "obviously," be given an enema. This will give then a "sence" of accomplishment.

 

[manny78]

Cops get paid right? Decent salaries + overtime opportunities. great benefits? Job security...how often do you hear about police cutbacks?

before you claim cops are underpaid, remember that the average salary in the US for a college educated male is $37,000.

A number of jobs are more risky than being a cop. It's not all about risking life for others pal.

lol... so true, average cop here makes around 65 000$ a year. Ain't that bad. Especially since most of them dont even have a college degree...

 

[primetime21]

Cops get paid right? Decent salaries + overtime opportunities. great benefits? Job security...how often do you hear about police cutbacks?

before you claim cops are underpaid, remember that the average salary in the US for a college educated male is $37,000.

A number of jobs are more risky than being a cop. It's not all about risking life for others pal.

A first year police officer in NY makes less than 37,000 base salary. Factor in the high costs of living in NY and that is not enough to support a family of 4. After 5 years, the salary increases to about 54,000. Not exactly living the high life.

A garbage man in NY has a starting salary of 30,000; after five years it increases to $49,000. Basically a garbage man and police officer makes the same. If you want to bash police officers, thats fine. But dont expect everyone to think the same way. I am sure we can list more people who have had their lives saved by a police officer than a garbage man.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

A first year police officer in NY makes less than 37,000 base salary. Factor in the high costs of living in NY and that is not enough to support a family of 4. After 5 years, the salary increases to about 54,000. Not exactly living the high life.

A garbage man in NY has a starting salary of 30,000; after five years it increases to $49,000. Basically a garbage man and police officer makes the same. If you want to bash police officers, thats fine. But dont expect everyone to think the same way. I am sure we can list more people who have had their lives saved by a police officer than a garbage man.

What does the cost of living in NY have to do with anything? it is a red herring that proves or disporves absolutely nothing.

Average salary nationwide of college educated men (all ages, not average starting salary)

If a cop starts at less than that, it;s fine. Chcek into the average NYPD salary. bet it is higher than $37K.

That service stuff is bullshit. let's be honest.

 

[primetime21]

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me there. We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.

 

[Lao Tzu]

if you get to know a few, you will see that the majority are damn good people and are willing to die for you.

And they will go out of their way to cause you as much pain, humiliation & suffering as they can over misdemeanors and isolated incidents.

Off duty i agree cops are normal people. I like the cops on EF. Darktooth, bwood, Manny78. But that doesn't mean i have to ignore the suffering people experience from the police.

Firemen save lives too, but their job doesn't require them to stalk, bully, lie to, kidnap, threaten and harass people like police officer's do so they don't need to wage an endless propaganda campaign about 'helping people' or 'being in a dangerous line of work'.

 

[primetime21]

And they will go out of their way to cause you as much pain, humiliation & suffering as they can over misdemeanors and isolated incidents.

Off duty i agree cops are normal people. I like the cops on EF. Darktooth, bwood, Manny78. But that doesn't mean i have to ignore the suffering people experience from the police.

Firemen save lives too, but their job doesn't require them to stalk, bully, lie to, kidnap, threaten and harass people like police officer's do so they don't need to wage an endless propaganda campaign about 'helping people' or 'being in a dangerous line of work'.

I think the problem is isolating bad incidents as opposed to distinguishing bad incidents. Some of the shit some cops have done is awful and inexcusable. However, to throw all cops in the same grouping would be just as wrong and ignorant. I dont know were all of you guys come from, but i have had some very good dealings with officers (and some bad ones). I have never been threatened or harrassed by any cop and i dont know of anyone that i know that has recounted a horror story involving a cop.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me there. We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.

Unlike you, primetime21, I have served in an infantry unit, just as COL Jessup did in the movie you alluded to. In fact it was the Army's most elite infantry unit, the 75th ranger Regiment. I was on that wall, or one just like it.

So I find it odd that you would debate me using movie lines.

That quote above has some relevance for the military. As a leader of 38 Rangers, I earned 1/35th of what I earn now. Yes, that is right, my wage (including bouses and investments, and the like) today is 35 times higher than what a junior military officer makes. That is service.

Very few police have responsibility for 40 cops. Those that do are paid big dollars. No cop has 24/7 responsibility for any suboridinates. Miitary officers do. If a ranger missed work, somebody was asking me where the fuckhe was. If he had marital problems, someone was asking me what the fuck I was doing to fix it. At 23 years old no less.

I find that those who compare military service and police work, especially in jest, understand neither.

Cops are required. But there needs to be a better way of putting the brakes on them. The agents of law enforcement should not be blindly enforcing the laws without thinking, as they are typically trained to do.

For starters, there should be a special set of stricter sentences for cops who break laws. This subverts the entire idea of a rule of law.

Another idea would be to increase age and qualification minimums to 25 with a college degree. The idea of a 21 year old armed with a gun and the support of the entire law enforcement community scares me a lot.

Another idea would be to limit the number of cops to a percentage of the total population of a state / town whatever.

 

[Lumberg]

I think you guys that hate cops should talk to them whenever you get a chance. Don't wait for them to find YOU.

I like talking to people in important and interesting positions whenever I can. Yesterday I had a long conversation with a meter-maid. It was great finding out how they work and I found out how to beat ANY parking ticket in DC! LOL

A few moths ago someone's car just rolled into another one in a parking lot. The officer who responded was very helpful. I kinda shot the shit with the people and the cop for a while.

This kind of stuff comes in handy the next time you encounter a cop for the WRONG reason. You have insight into the way they work and you may have something to say that keeps them from writing that ticket or throwing your ass in jail.

Food for thought.

 

[primetime21]

Obviously, an attempt at entertainment lost on its audience. I was trying to lighten the mood of the thread and not contend that cops and soldiers are identical. However, there are some similarities. If you cant see that, well then we will have to agree to disagree.

I dont know why the qualifications should be greater for a cop than for a teenager in the army. In wars like vietnam plenty of gung ho teenage soldiers committed some terrible atrocities upon innocent vietnamese people. Personally, i have no gripe with them since i was never in that position, so i cant judge. However, i think many of you dont appreciate what police do for you.

Many times it is the fear of the police that prevents many crimes. If there was no police the amount of crime would obviously rise significantly. If police were kinder and gentler i believe crime would also increase. i have no problem with a potential rapist fearing what a cop may do to him, if he catches him. Very rarely are innocent people beaten by cops. Usually the guy was doing something illegal to precipitate the beating. While i dont agree with the force an officer uses in each and every circumstance, i hardly feel bad for the drug dealer who is taking the brunt of the cops force.

In fact, i know of a few cops that were former members of the military. actually, they a couple were in the military, then became cops and then became lawyers. Damn good people and wouldnt be too thrilled with the way some people would categorize them.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Obviously, an attempt at entertainment lost on its audience. I was trying to lighten the mood of the thread and not contend that cops and soldiers are identical. However, there are some similarities. If you cant see that, well then we will have to agree to disagree.

Actually I love Jack's performance in that movie.

As to similarities: Have you ever done either job? Or do you base your assertion on the fact that they both have guns, and that many go from military into police work? or better yet - has the media's portrayal of the troops in Iraq led you to believe that the soldier is really a policeman?

The similarities are fewer than you think. Police are at best paramilitary - or so they'd like to fancy themselves.

Here's a hint: one is a war - ready killing machine and the other is a quasi-solution to the pesky crime problem. If you think what you see on TV is a soldier, you should strap on some combat boots and go through Ranger training. That's a crime that we treat our troops the way they are being used now in Iraq. That is a job for cops.

I dont know why the qualifications should be greater for a cop than for a teenager in the army. In wars like vietnam plenty of gung ho teenage soldiers committed some terrible atrocities upon innocent vietnamese people. Personally, i have no gripe with them since i was never in that position, so i cant judge. However, i think many of you dont appreciate what police do for you.

Your ignorance of the differences is your problem.

Soldiers kill foreginers, who are declared enemies by Congress or the President.

Police exert their influence on constitutionally protected Americans - innocent, by the way, until proven guilty.

Many times it is the fear of the police that prevents many crimes.

This claim is at odds with the fact that the number of police continues to rise, and the amount of crime has not decreased significantly. Explain.

If there was no police the amount of crime would obviously rise significantly. If police were kinder and gentler i believe crime would also increase.

The vast majority of crime is probably unreported. Al cops do in the overwhelming majority fo cases is react to crimwe. The amount of cops goes up up up. So do the punishments for crimes. So does the amount of criminals. Coincidence?

Cops (and legislators have ahand in this too) make it harder for people to defend themselves. while they strip our rights of self defense and gun ownership, they increase the number of laws, making moer and more behaviors a crime, yet giving people fewer means to defend themselves.

i have no problem with a potential rapist fearing what a cop may do to him, if he catches him.

So you think cops should be the ones to hand out justice, then? There's just one problem with that: it is called the Constitution. It;s called the right to a trial by jury.

By that document (if it means anything to you) everyone - rapist murderer whoever - has a right to a trial by jury, and is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, cops should only be detaining them

The Constitution implies that a constabulary (police force today) lacks the ability to determine innocence or guilt. That is the reason for the judiciary. Do you have a proble with that process? Why are you so ready to trade in your rights? Or have you become so brainwashed you forgot the Constitution and the founding principles of this country?

if you do not want that right, perhaps you could move to Iran.

Very rarely are innocent people beaten by cops.

And very rarely is OK? Ruby Ridge. Dead people. That's OK? One is too many bro.

Usually the guy was doing something illegal to precipitate the beating. While i dont agree with the force an officer uses in each and every circumstance, i hardly feel bad for the drug dealer who is taking the brunt of the cops force.

Yes but as per that pesky constitution, cops lack the authority and ability to determine innocence or guilt.

In fact, i know of a few cops that were former members of the military. actually, they a couple were in the military, then became cops and then became lawyers. Damn good people and wouldnt be too thrilled with the way some people would categorize them.

And I know a bunch that are assholes. what's the point?

 

[primetime21]

I am honored. that was the first time you have given me the "step by step" breakdown of my comments.

First off, the fact that some cops are bad or that some cops are even racist is something to be expected. Some lawyers are corrupt, some judges are corrupt, some politicians are corrupt, some doctors are corrupt etc.. Cops are a slice of america. There are good and bad. but to attack cops as a whole is wrong in my book. Its like attacking blacks because you were once mugged by a black guy or attacking . its just as wrong.

As for the arguments about cops not being judges. I am well aware that they are not allowed to meet out justice. However, if a suspect is physically challenging the cops, i say whale away! Anyone dumb enough to fight with cops should get their ass handed to them (even if they turn out to be innocent of the underlying offense) Personally, if a cop pulls me over i would be as nice as possible out of respect for their proffesion. Oh by the way, i have gotten out of many tickets by just using the word "sir" when addressing the officer.

Finally, just because i wasnt a cop or a soldier doesnt make me unqualified to discuss both. you had no problem discussing the constitution. A legal document. Is it safe to assume that you are not a lawyer? well, how can a non-lawyer discuss the constitution under your theory of "if you haven't been one you can't discuss it."? Personally, i have no problem with listening to your version of the constitution. Just because you arent a lawyer and didnt take constitution classes in law school, doesnt mean you arent capabel of holding your own on the subject. I am a lawyer, yet i
wont tell you that you cant discuss it and that my interpretation holds a greater level of respect. Of course, had you misinterpreted the constitution i would have mentioned it. However, i will use the next reply to discuss your interpretation of a legal argument.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I am honored. that was the first time you have given me the "step by step" breakdown of my comments.

LOL! I had to - you were all over the place.

First off, the fact that some cops are bad or that some cops are even racist is something to be expected. Some lawyers are corrupt, some judges are corrupt, some politicians are corrupt, some doctors are corrupt etc.. Cops are a slice of america. There are good and bad. but to attack cops as a whole is wrong in my book. Its like attacking blacks because you were once mugged by a black guy or attacking . its just as wrong.

Given the power vested in cops, it is right to hold them to a higher standard. Lawyers, doctrs etc all can face the consequerncesof their malpractice. why not cops? Sure the implementation would have to differ, but a strict standard should be legislated.

As for the arguments about cops not being judges. I am well aware that they are not allowed to meet out justice. However, if a suspect is physically challenging the cops, i say whale away! Anyone dumb enough to fight with cops should get their ass handed to them (even if they turn out to be innocent of the underlying offense) Personally, if a cop pulls me over i would be as nice as possible out of respect for their proffesion..

This is totally different than what you said before. You're either clarifying or changing your mind. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I agree - people must respect the authority of police, and if they fail to, there are consequences. And yes, people must know that if they feel wronged by cops, the court is their route to vidication and - through civil litigation - their recourse for actions against the cops.

Finally, just because i wasnt a cop or a soldier doesnt make me unqualified to discuss both. you had no problem discussing the constitution. A legal document. Is it safe to assume that you are not a lawyer? well, how can a non-lawyer discuss the constitution under your theory of "if you haven't been one you can't discuss it."? Personally, i have no problem with listening to your version of the constitution. Just because you arent a lawyer and didnt take constitution classes in law school, doesnt mean you arent capabel of holding your own on the subject. I am a lawyer, yet i
wont tell you that you cant discuss it and that my interpretation holds a greater level of respect. Of course, had you misinterpreted the constitution i would have mentioned it. However, i will use the next reply to discuss your interpretation of a legal argument.

You're right. I do have about 3 dozen lawyers working for me though - is that like an honorary JD?

 

[primetime21]

Your ignorance of the differences is your problem.

Soldiers kill foreginers, who are declared enemies by Congress or the President.

Police exert their influence on constitutionally protected Americans - innocent, by the way, until proven guilty.

[/B]

the police may use force to protect persons (which include themselves when facing a violent suspect) or property or to make a valid arrest. That is a fact. So the police are LEGALLY (just as legally as a soldier in a way) to use FORCE. And not just to save a life.

The Supreme court in 1985 ruled: "deadly force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Tennessee v. Garner (471 U.S. 1)- This decision restricted the amount of situations a cop can use deadly force. However, a clear reading of this statement indicates taht cops still posses the right to use deadly force in many situations.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crs/pubs/pdexcess.htm#41

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

the police may use force to protect persons (which include themselves when facing a violent suspect) or property or to make a valid arrest. That is a fact. So the police are LEGALLY (just as legally as a soldier in a way) to use FORCE. And not just to save a life.

The Supreme court in 1985 ruled: "deadly force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Tennessee v. Garner (471 U.S. 1)- This decision restricted the amount of situations a cop can use deadly force. However, a clear reading of this statement indicates taht cops still posses the right to use deadly force in many situations.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crs/pubs/pdexcess.htm#41

I don't think I ever debated that cops can use force to make a valid arrest. Nor did I ever question the use of force by cops to protect themselves, even deadly force as warranted.

nevertheless, the comparison between a soldier (by nature a killer) and a cop is a reach.

 

[Daeo]

Is there really an option to NOT having a police force???

 

[The Republican]

Is there really an option to NOT having a police force???

Nope. If you think there is, try living in Somalia.

 

[Daeo]

Nope. If you think there is, try living in Somalia.

Exactly. It's a fact of life. You can't avoid bad people no matter what occupation it is. It's impossible to tell who will or won't be a bad choice for any position till they get into it...

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Exactly. It's a fact of life. You can't avoid bad people no matter what occupation it is. It's impossible to tell who will or won't be a bad choice for any position till they get into it...

No cops in NY city until 1858. How did we ever survive?

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Basically a garbage man and police officer makes the same. If you want to bash police officers, thats fine. But dont expect everyone to think the same way. I am sure we can list more people who have had their lives saved by a police officer than a garbage man.

But the statistics show that garbage collecting is much more dangerous than police work. Shouldn't garbage collectors get paid more than cops? Why do cops get more respect than someone who is much more likely to die on the job? Garbage collectors don't even get perks like free donuts.

 

[primetime21]

But the statistics show that garbage collecting is much more dangerous than police work. Shouldn't garbage collectors get paid more than cops? Why do cops get more respect than someone who is much more likely to die on the job? Garbage collectors don't even get perks like free donuts.

there is a difference between dying on the job and dying in an effort to save someones life. If you dont see that, its a shame.

 

[white boy]

U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Fatalities per 100,000
Year 1999

Commercial Fishermen 162
Timber Cutters 154
Air Pilots 65
Construction Laborers 37
Garbage Collectors 34
Truck Drivers 28
Electricians 12
Gardeners (non farm) 11
Police 11
Carpenters 7

I'm a commercial fisherman out of alaska and have actualy been involved with a couple of search and rescue's, it feels good to pull someone out of the water that have pretty much no hope left, unconscious even

 

[Daeo]

No cops in NY city until 1858. How did we ever survive?

You can't honestly tell me that you'd like to go back to that system today. I find it hard to believe that you'd like to have everyone deal out whatever they considered to be justice according to their own standards. Remember, those bad cops that you stated earlier would be included in the bunch. Imagine if they didn't have ANY rules to follow and NO chance of being reprimanded...

 

[Julez]

There was an article in the paper today(Daily Mirror, I try and find the URL to the story) about how an illegal immagrant trained and qualified to become a police officer. It was only on a 'tip-off' that he got found out.

Yeah, I think that much of the bad elements of the police would be eliminated if they just did a few more tests....... as a nurse they did pre-course exams, appitude test's, continual assesment, you had to produce a birth cerificate plus the required GCSE's(equivalant of your high school diploma I think), your national insurance details, references from employers going back upto 7 years(or tutors) and a whole load of other shit.

Even my uncle who is a retired police officer says that criminals and police officers are two sides of the same coin.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

You can't honestly tell me that you'd like to go back to that system today. I find it hard to believe that you'd like to have everyone deal out whatever they considered to be justice according to their own standards. Remember, those bad cops that you stated earlier would be included in the bunch. Imagine if they didn't have ANY rules to follow and NO chance of being reprimanded...

Of course not. And the fact of the matter is 1858 was mostly pre-Industrial revolution, society was heavily agrarian, etc. It is a bad comparison but sometimes I useit to get people to think about options.

Societry is based on the rule of law. It isn't perfect, but it's the best we have done so far. It's better than being based on the rule of a king or emperor.

Any reasonable means of governance calls for a system of laws, which require enforcement. However, given that society is based on the application of the rule of law, there are few jobs more ciritical to the health iof society than law enforcement: a functioning judiciary and a police force.

We demand that our judges be holders of law degrees (wasn't always this way, but it is now). Judges are rated by various societies and must weither be appointed and confirmed, or elected.

Even appointed judges are appointed by people who were elected and can be elected out of office, even if the judges are virtually unremovable.

District Attorneys are elected as well.

So on one side of the equation enforcing the rule of law, you have advanced educations and (to some extent at least) popular participation. Yet on the other side you have (literally) 20 year olds getting jobs that give them the full power of the state or municipality that they are policing.

Isn't there an outlandish disconnect? Could you fathom a 21 year old judge It's silly.

Is it feasible tio require cops to have a law degree, be elected or appointed, etc. Probably not.

But it must be acknowledged that cops have a huge responsibility in society, and professionals should comprise the police force.

Perhaps all police performance records should be public.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

there is a difference between dying on the job and dying in an effort to save someones life. If you dont see that, its a shame.

Police rarely die trying to save someone. Most police fatalities are the result of car accidents. Regardless, my point was about pay scale. Shouldn't garbage collectors be paid more for doing a more hazardous job?

 

[primetime21]

Of course not. And the fact of the matter is 1858 was mostly pre-Industrial revolution, society was heavily agrarian, etc. It is a bad comparison but sometimes I useit to get people to think about options.

Societry is based on the rule of law. It isn't perfect, but it's the best we have done so far. It's better than being based on the rule of a king or emperor.

Any reasonable means of governance calls for a system of laws, which require enforcement. However, given that society is based on the application of the rule of law, there are few jobs more ciritical to the health iof society than law enforcement: a functioning judiciary and a police force.

We demand that our judges be holders of law degrees (wasn't always this way, but it is now). Judges are rated by various societies and must weither be appointed and confirmed, or elected.

Even appointed judges are appointed by people who were elected and can be elected out of office, even if the judges are virtually unremovable.

District Attorneys are elected as well.

So on one side of the equation enforcing the rule of law, you have advanced educations and (to some extent at least) popular participation. Yet on the other side you have (literally) 20 year olds getting jobs that give them the full power of the state or municipality that they are policing.

Isn't there an outlandish disconnect? Could you fathom a 21 year old judge It's silly.

Is it feasible tio require cops to have a law degree, be elected or appointed, etc. Probably not.

But it must be acknowledged that cops have a huge responsibility in society, and professionals should comprise the police force.

Perhaps all police performance records should be public.

Why would someone that is highly educated want to make 39,000 a year and risk their life? Actually, why would someone that is highly educated want to make 100,000 a year and risk their life?

If you want to raise the level of cops, then you need to at least raise the pay considerably. once you do that, you will have to lower the pay of other governmental employees to meet the budget which would create another problem.

in fact, one of the biggest problems with recruiting better cops is the shit they have to take from people (like yourself). Would you want to apply to a job that is so roundly criticized? I know i wouldnt. If the public supported police officers a little more, perhaps more qualified people would apply.

Now let me hear why youre right and i am wrong.

 

[Testosterone boy]

in fact, one of the biggest problems with recruiting better cops is the shit they have to take from people (like yourself). Would you want to apply to a job that is so roundly criticized? I know i wouldnt. If the public supported police officers a little more, perhaps more qualified people would apply.

The public would support cops more if they were more qualified.

More people would want to be cops if they enjoyed a good reputation instead of the one they have managed to date despite tremendous propaganda about protection and service.

Using them to raise revenue through mostly bullshit traffic citations does their reputation no benefit.

 

[primetime21]

The public would support cops more if they were more qualified.

More people would want to be cops if they enjoyed a good reputation instead of the one they have managed to date despite tremendous propaganda about protection and service.

Using them to raise revenue through mostly bullshit traffic citations does their reputation no benefit.

If you are saying that more should be done by the government to aid police officers and make the job more appealing. I agree. However, bashing the ones that do decide to take the job, despite the shit they have to put up with, isnt productive.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Why would someone that is highly educated want to make 39,000 a year and risk their life? Actually, why would someone that is highly educated want to make 100,000 a year and risk their life?

That's my point exactly - they are more focused on the paycheck than the risk or the service. 39K is above average for coleg educated males. Many cops do not have a 4 year degree.

If you want to raise the level of cops, then you need to at least raise the pay considerably. once you do that, you will have to lower the pay of other governmental employees to meet the budget which would create another problem.

Higher salaries attract qualifed candidates - but they also attract unqualified ones. Higher salaries combined with more stringent selection creiteria, and you're golden.

A higher quality officer might just mean we need fewer officers. Budget problem solved.

Unfortuantely for many of us, police have formed unions - public sector unions, which are the most regressive of all. (Teachers' unions are public sector unions - we've seen what they have done to increase the quality of teaching right? LOL!!)

Police unions will always vote against stricter standards because invariably that results in fewer cops (read: fewer dues payers). Not every cop eberywhere is unionized, but in almost every municipality for state, police groups or unions are a powerful lobbying force.

Unions always support hiring more cops, even though that often results in having to lower the standards.

in fact, one of the biggest problems with recruiting better cops is the shit they have to take from people (like yourself). Would you want to apply to a job that is so roundly criticized? I know i wouldnt.

Aren't you a lawyer? who is criticized more than they are?

If the public supported police officers a little more, perhaps more qualified people would apply.

let's all have a big group hug, shall we? That is emotionalized crapola and you know it.

Now let me hear why youre right and i am wrong.

It;s not right and wrong, it's perspective and discussion. But if you are overlooking the negative qualities of public sector unions, your perspective is a little narrow.

even FDR, mr. liberal, prohibited public sector unions.

 

[manny78]

Unions among cops/fireman is one very bad idea. There's no union in the RCMP (it's stricly forbidden) and you can easily tell the difference between them and other PD.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Unions among cops/fireman is one very bad idea. There's no union in the RCMP (it's stricly forbidden) and you can easily tell the difference between them and other PD.

even the lefties in Canada have enough sense to see the problem with public sector unions.

 

[pitbullstl]

The public would support cops more if they were more qualified.

More people would want to be cops if they enjoyed a good reputation instead of the one they have managed to date despite tremendous propaganda about protection and service.

Using them to raise revenue through mostly bullshit traffic citations does their reputation no benefit.

I for one am always impressed by the thought that goes into the thread discussions on this chat board, for years I only trolled here while posting on the anabolic board, but as of late have found this to be quite enlightning.....back to the matter at hand, I also think we should raise the standards by which someone is admitted to a police academy or force....college educated, maybe....more importantly 25 years of age, I think that between 21 and 25 some serious maturing takes place (not in everyone) . It is not always young cops who are errant in their ways, but in my experience it has been. Take for example my post from 3 weeks ago , where a 22 year old police officer from a nationally recognized police department, failed to use better judgement and shot and killed my friend's pitbull, a loving family pet. He shot the dog 7 times twice in the head and 5 times in the chest, in a affluent residential area at dusk with kids playing down the street. The dog was shot for no reason (other than the cop had dog prejudice towards the breed) and yet no consequences have been rendered to the police officer in question. This is wrong on so many levels, but as it pertains to this discussion, now not only has this police officer lowered the level of expectation and resepct he will receive from young people who were effected by this tragedy, it has also caused dissention towards all law enforcement by in large, due to the way it was handled after the fact. I for one do not hate all police officers, I do not generalize, I have many friends who are police officers, I also do not feel i directly need law enforcemnt, but on the same hand I am glad it is there. I do however feel the need to tie the police officer involved in this situation to the bumper of my truck with a leash and drag him kicking and screaming down the street. The constant negative reinforcement of police behavior is truly what causes such mass disrespect from the youth of today.......

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I for one am always impressed by the thought that goes into the thread discussions on this chat board, for years I only trolled here while posting on the anabolic board, but as of late have found this to be quite enlightning.....back to the matter at hand, I also think we should raise the standards by which someone is admitted to a police academy or force....college educated, maybe....more importantly 25 years of age, I think that between 21 and 25 some serious maturing takes place (not in everyone) . It is not always young cops who are errant in their ways, but in my experience it has been. Take for example my post from 3 weeks ago , where a 22 year old police officer from a nationally recognized police department, failed to use better judgement and shot and killed my friend's pitbull, a loving family pet. He shot the dog 7 times twice in the head and 5 times in the chest, in a affluent residential area at dusk with kids playing down the street. The dog was shot for no reason (other than the cop had dog prejudice towards the breed) and yet no consequences have been rendered to the police officer in question. This is wrong on so many levels, but as it pertains to this discussion, now not only has this police officer lowered the level of expectation and resepct he will receive from young people who were effected by this tragedy, it has also caused dissention towards all law enforcement by in large, due to the way it was handled after the fact. I for one do not hate all police officers, I do not generalize, I have many friends who are police officers, I also do not feel i directly need law enforcemnt, but on the same hand I am glad it is there. I do however feel the need to tie the police officer involved in this situation to the bumper of my truck with a leash and drag him kicking and screaming down the street. The constant negative reinforcement of police behavior is truly what causes such mass disrespect from the youth of today.......

Th common answer to that is that "there are a few bad apples, but the majority do a good job".

Against blanket propaganda, another reponse is needed, OR, the supposition that the majority is good has to be refuted.

I think the majority of cops are similar. It takes a certain type of person to be drawn to policework. To want to join the police force, you have to

1. believe you are fighting crime
2. Be looking for a line of work in which there is no societal stigma with immaturity
3. Have power issues.


There aer a lot of #1's - altruists to be sure - but any experienced cop will tell you that they don't reduce crime, they might "move" crime to another location.

After too long, most #1's either get off the force, or become a #2 or #3.

Both #2 and #3 are the wrong kids of people for the job, but who else would stay.


#2 is the same kind of behavior that you see in the military. Only in the military (is stunted emptional growth not a big deal. wioth promotions determined largely by seniority and less by merit, there is no reason to everreally "grow up". even among the officers, one can rise to the formidable rank of Lt Col just by not being a complete fuck up.

Police are similar. Public sector unions have guaranteed police pay based on seniority, not merit. The authority that comes with being a cop, coupled with the camaraderie, ensures that there will be almost no one to hold them accountable for their wrong actions. They cement the lack of accountability by using any or al of the followng propaganda:

1. Public service
2. Life on the line for others


So as you can see, the propaganda is all bullshit.

#3. The guys with power issues don't merit much discussion. I suspect many of them are drummed out of the force after very long anyway.

So basically, we end up with a lot of the #2 types doing police work. is this good? I don't think so. However, these are also the kind of people that are easily manipulated (they are trained to be, like the military), and that makes the good for emforcing whatever legislative crap may come down the pipeline.

 

[crmdogg]

police suck ass, they never do jack shit when you want them to and then they turn into a speeking rulebook in no time at all.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

You can't use the 'few bad apples' argument to justify any police brutality. Otherwise you must free from impunity the 'few bad apples' that murder, rape, and rob.