Please help with 6mo HGH & AAS. -Thanks!

[dan140]

Hi
I recently found this forum and first thanks to all for the great info in your posts.
this is my situation: I am 31 years old and have been working out for 13 years. I am a certified personal trainer currently working at a gym in Switzerland. I am 6 feet tall and weigh 190lbs with about 16% body fat. I can bench 220 for 10 reps. If 1 is perfect ectomorph and 10 is perfect endomorph body type I would be around 7, witch means I have a hard time keeping my bf down, which really sucks. I can also definitely tell that my metabolism has slowed down over the last 5 years, which also sucks. I have never used AAS or HGH.
But this is about to change. I have had many opportunities to buy gear but always opted out since I was happy with my results. I now have reached a plateau that I feel cannot overcome without taking advantage of a bit of pharmaceutical ‘help’. My goal is to get and hopefully stay at 210-220lbs with max 12% bf. I have no interest in gains that I cannot keep, although I do expect a certain post-cycle loss of mass, of course. What I am saying is that the focus of my cycle is on gaining about 20-30 lbs and keeping as much of it as possible.

This is my plan, but it’s all up for discussion and improvement: 4 iu’s. HGH subcutaneously ed, 6 on 1off for 6 months. During the first 8-10 weeks I am planning on simply running 200-300mg Deca e.w. During the last 10 weeks I am planning on running primobolan 250mg ew. During 12 weeks, then add 4-6 tabs of andriol ed for weeks 5-12 and finally add winstrol inj. 25mg eod. For weeks 9-12. After 2 weeks I plan to run two tabs of clomid ed for 5 days and 1tab for the next 10 days.
I plan on slightly decreasing recovery time to 4days off, which is now at 5-6 full days off after working a muscle group. Diet will obviously go up in protein a bit to about 300-350 grams ed. Focus will be on having a meal every 3h to keep insulin insulin levels ok. I do not plan on injecting insulin. Unsure still about the t3.

My questions:
1. What do you think of the AAS that am planning on running here. Keep in mind, this is my first cycle. I am thinking of adding 250mg Sustanon, would this be a good idea?
2. What should I do during the 6 weeks inbetween AAS?
3. Do I REALLY need the t3 for this cycle?

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

 

[shortstack]

have you looked into what its gonna cost you to run gh for 6 months?

 

[dan140]

yep, 156days @ 4iu = 624 iu's / times 3bucks = $1872 / plus probably 800 for the aas so I'm at a total of 2700. A reasonable investment IMO. -IF I can keep most of my gains. If you tell me that it is not realistic to keep at least 15-20 LBs I'm going to scratch this whole project. And maybe just go on a creatine cycle instead. LOL

 

[Smokescreen]

I would run the GH ed as opposed to 6 on and 1 off. I never understood that crap at all. If your going to do GH ....then do it! Look bro, its one or the other. You either get big with some fat and water added. Or you get hard and cut up. It's either or! Gh isn't going to help you get big. I know because I've been using it for many, many months. It only helps for cutting cycles really good. If you want size with GH..I'm sorry but you have to add Insulin to it. NUFF SAID!! For someone your height and size and bodyfat...I don'tlike your cycle. You need to stay with muscle but lose fat! Your obvioulsy a little fat IMO. 16%bodyfat??? And your a trainer???? Come on! BTW....Andriol??? Are you serious??? Drop that shit! You need to lose fat and get those muslces fuller. And winstrol inj. at 25 eod??? Come on!!! That shit doesn't even work well at 50mg's eod! Protein will go up? It should've been like that the whole time you've been TRAINING! Diet...Protein high, carbs low! Get back to me if you have to. And if you plan on using that stack of gear post it like this....

weeks 1-12 wintsrol
weeks 1-12 primo
etc etc

It makes reading it better.

 

[thx9000]

If you struggle at maintaining your body fat then you’ll find this struggle is harder when you start playing with your hormone levels. Any thing that heavily aromatizes will make this worse (androil, dbol, test, etc) the mere switch to a bulking diet along with the deca will cause you problems as well. IMO I would run the GH along with a low carb diet for several months to get my BF down as low as possible then consider the anabolics.

As far as the steroids are concerned, I’m not sure what you’re doing. You’ve got 10wk of deca in there then a “last 10wk of primo” Then there’s a 12wk. Then there’s a week 5-12 with androil (can’t be the first 5-12wk since that is only deca) and “finally add winstrol” for wk 9-12. Then there’s an after 2wk? Is that at wk2 or wk20-something?

I just got to your actual questions, and am more confused. Where are these 6wk “in between AAS” times? Where would you want to use the Sust? What are you using for an anti-e? What’s you plan for recovery? What are you doing about an anti-e which on gear?

 

[Smokescreen]

LMFAO! THX, your just as confused as me. He needs to be VERY SPECIFIIC IN FULL DETAIL what he wants to do. THX, like always, is right on the money bro! GH and low carb diet first. When bodyfat is down, then add the anabolics to increase the muscle mass. But now from a low carb diet go to a moderate carb diet. More carbs means more muscle. But you don't want to take chances in gaining that fat back again.

 

[dan140]

OK Bros, thanks for your input! So, as you suggest I will make sure I'm not over 12 or 13 % BF before I start the cycle. And I'm scratching the andriol and the winny since you are right at those doses they will not be of much help and probably are not contributing anything to my main goal of gaining some keepable lean mass.

OK, This is what I'm thinking:

week 1-26 HGH @ 4 iu ed

week 1-7 Deca @ 200mg ew
week 1-8 Sust @ 250mg ew

week 11 Clomid @ 2tabs/day

week 18-26 primo @ 250mg ew
week 21-26 sust @ 250mg ew
week 28 clomid @ 2tabs ed

week 27-52 HGH @ 1iu/ed

hope this is clearer than my last post

-as illustrated there is a break from aas between week 9 and 18, does this make sense, or am I just wasting GH running 4iu's alone? Should I reduce to 2iu's ed during this time?

-do I need to run anti estrogens with this?
-I Will spend the rest of the evening reading up on slin. I have to admit this does have me a bit scared...But my goal is to put on some mass here and if I need slin for it so be it.

Thanks again carth & thx9000!!

 

[Smokescreen]

Either this STILL doesn't make sense or I'm just tooooo tired right now. I did just get home from work. Let me take a shower and I'll be back. THX! You there? What do you think? Heh???

 

[Latamier]

Do it every day. I never take a day off when I am on HGH. I usually run it for 1 year as well. You will notice gains at the 6 month mark but a year is better. Also, I wont run it under 6I.U.s/day either. I prefer to run it at 10I.U.s but it does get costly. Once you do it though you will probably fall in love with it as I have. I personally think it's the best shit on earth. I am 33 and I literally feel like I shed 10 years off my age. I havent felt this good physically since I've been in my 20s.

 

[thx9000]

The thing that I can’t get out of my head is that this is a first cycle, and yet it looks so remarkably complicated. Honestly, I just wouldn’t run any of this the way you have it setup. There’s nothing really wrong with your idea. Well, there are a few problems: the 1wk of clomid won’t do you any good for a recovery, and personally I’d at least run the sust at a higher dosage, and (also a personal preference) I prefer to be clean longer than just 10wks especially after running deca. You probably won’t have much trouble with aromatization from just 250mg Sust EW and you probably won’t have trouble with the deca. Still it wouldn’t hurt to have some nolva on hand just in case. IMO, the costs of Dostinex and the odds of running into problems with the deca are so low that I wouldn’t worry about having that around. I would avoid using insulin.

IMO, you need to find a simpler way of running your first cycle. This will NOT give you all the gains/rewards that you want. You will not be able to run a single cycle and walk away without having to ever consider a follow-up cycle. If you want to go on GH for therapeutic purposes then do so at something like 1.5iu to 2iu ED for the whole year. If you want to use GH for growth while on a cycle then consider 4-6iu or so. It’s not like GH is the gasoline that gets the fire roaring, its more like GH adds a little more heat to the flame (at least at 4iu). Concentrate on getting your BF down as low as you can, 10% is a better goal than 13%, and make sure you have a really solid understanding of how your body reacts to changes in diet. My body loves to put on fat just as yours does and you’ve got to be prepared for what gear will do to that situation.

 

[Smokescreen]

THX is right again. that's exactly what I wanted to say. First cycle and it just seems so fucking complicated and not very impressive or productive. THX...don't you think that maybe he should just do like for example 2 cutting cycles? Do one cutting cycle for like 8 weeks....be clean and recover...run a clen/ECY stack during off time...and then run another cutting cycle. I mean...he does have GH! That is going to help him out during both cutting phases to get cut up! He does have to lose fat first before he can take drugs that are used to bulk. These drugs might make you fat all over again.

 

[dan140]

Thanks for your help guys...OK, so I'm going to keep some nolva handy as you suggest and will try to get to 10% BF before starting the cycle! Holy crap, if GH is really as good at burning fat as I have read and I START at 10% I should be at 5% by the end of my cycle!!! How am I going to explain that to my friends??? OK, seriously now...Again, the main objective is really not loosing fat but putting on some muscle that i can KEEP.

You mention:
"You will not be able to run a single cycle and walk away without having to ever consider a follow-up cycle" -why not???

Yes, I probably will continue running 1-1.5 iu's ed after my main cycle (for therapy).
Basically I'm looking to get the biggest return on investment without getting into major dosages, which I don't feel I need for my first 2 AS cycles. I have spent the last 5 hours reading on novice cycles and it seems to me I'm not too far off with my AS plan as stated above. I actually am thinking of scratching the deca(-dick) all together and just running 375mg sust divided in to two shots ew for the first as-cycle. I also like your idea of bridging with clen. What is ECY?
The one main thing I'm still unclear about is that some say you absolutely NEED the slin for weight gain and some don't think so at all.

You say there might be a simpler way here: I'm open to suggestions, of course! The reason I have arrived at this combo is that every one seems to say that the max benefits are achieved at 6 months of GH and I figured that leaves me with enought time for two AS-cycles with some kind of bridge.

Thanks again!!

 

[Smokescreen]

ECY is ephedrine, caffeine, yohimbine stack. You will NOT lose fat that damn quick while on GH. You would have to take a lot more than that. And if you did..you would become hypo really quick! Seems like your expecting magic to happen here and it's just not bro! Steroids are not magic! You still have to put your 100% into this game bro. Diet, training, sleeping will get you results. You just get better results with gear of course. But you first need knowledge to do this. GH and insulin ARE NOT FOR BEGINNERS!!! You don't need it yet. Bro, when I first did gear, I was 145lbs! I used Cypionate, Deca, winstrol and nolva. I went from 145 to 175 in 3 months! And guess what??? LBM!!! Strict diet and training let me get that big without bloating or adding fat. Oh! as a matter of fact! I actually got toned up really good. My opinon bro, your cycle is messy, comlicated for a beginner. Save the GH and defintely the slin for some other time! Stick with the basics for now! Use winstrol and test and ECY stack to lose bodyfat. And add maybe Adex to that.

 

[dan140]

And yes, I will run the clomid for 2 weeks...Thanks

 

[thx9000]

Thanks for your help guys...OK, so I'm going to keep some nolva handy as you suggest and will try to get to 10% BF before starting the cycle! Holy crap, if GH is really as good at burning fat as I have read and I START at 10% I should be at 5% by the end of my cycle!!! How am I going to explain that to my friends??? OK, seriously now...Again, the main objective is really not loosing fat but putting on some muscle that i can KEEP.

You mention:
"You will not be able to run a single cycle and walk away without having to ever consider a follow-up cycle" -why not???

Yes, I probably will continue running 1-1.5 iu's ed after my main cycle (for therapy).
Basically I'm looking to get the biggest return on investment without getting into major dosages, which I don't feel I need for my first 2 AS cycles. I have spent the last 5 hours reading on novice cycles and it seems to me I'm not too far off with my AS plan as stated above. I actually am thinking of scratching the deca(-dick) all together and just running 375mg sust divided in to two shots ew for the first as-cycle. I also like your idea of bridging with clen. What is ECY?
The one main thing I'm still unclear about is that some say you absolutely NEED the slin for weight gain and some don't think so at all.

You say there might be a simpler way here: I'm open to suggestions, of course! The reason I have arrived at this combo is that every one seems to say that the max benefits are achieved at 6 months of GH and I figured that leaves me with enought time for two AS-cycles with some kind of bridge.

Thanks again!!

GH is not a miracle hormone. It isn't answer to all your rapid mass gain dreams and it isn't the answer to rapid fat loss. Sorry.

Regardless of how well you prepare your first cycle will be fraught with mistakes. All the advice this board can provide is based on subjective experience. Your body is unique, your training style is unique, your diet is unique, your reaction to gear is unique. I am unique in all those areas, as is Carth. Your first cycle will be surprising in it's flaws and rewards, keep it simple so you can clearly understand which drug did what.

You do not absolutely need slin to gain. That's absurde and so is the idea that GH (alone) will cause gains.

375mg sust EW is reasonable. Not exciting, but reasonable.

Yes, it takes time for GH to yeild its benefits. You need to also keep in mind that its most profound benefits are seen by those much older than you. Decide what's more important to you, GH for mass or GH for "therapy". At your age the "therapy" idea is somewhat questionable. The mass approach, though, works better starting at 6iu ED (IMO only, though, others may know better).

Simpler:

WK 1-52: GH: 1.5iu ED
WK 16: cardio and diet have BF down to 10%
WK 16-26: Sust 400mg EW aromasin 12.5mg E3D.
WK 24-27: HCG 250iu 1x EW
WK 28-31: Clomid 100mg first 10dy, 50mg next 7dy, 50mg EOD next 4dy

 

[Smokescreen]

NUFF SAID! CASE CLOSED! Close this thread!

 

[dan140]

Thanks guys!!!

 

[georgie24]

i think carth covered everything this newbster needed to know! good posts man

 

[Smokescreen]

I think somebody here deserves Karma. Give it to THX.

 

[genarr3]

Keep it simple fella, it's your first cycle. Drop the HGH, $ for $ you will get far better results with AAS.

500mg/week of Sustenon/or some other long acting test for 10 weeks. Add some type of Anti-e to combat the estro conversion from the test.
If you wish to mix 200 or 300mgs of Deca in there be my guest. This complicated cycle is not needed for a newbie.

Start at the shallow end of the pool.

 

[genarr3]

Read . . .
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332215

 

[Guvna]

Do it every day. I never take a day off when I am on HGH. I usually run it for 1 year as well. You will notice gains at the 6 month mark but a year is better. Also, I wont run it under 6I.U.s/day either. I prefer to run it at 10I.U.s but it does get costly. Once you do it though you will probably fall in love with it as I have. I personally think it's the best shit on earth. I am 33 and I literally feel like I shed 10 years off my age. I havent felt this good physically since I've been in my 20s.

you arent worried about insulin resistance?? How do you manage a year on every day without these type of problems?














(and how the fuck do you pay for 6ius a day ED for a year? j/k BTW. thats a minumim of 14 bucks a day if it is jin, 5k a year. damn.)

 

[VictorBR]

yep Genar is right . Keep it simple . But I still think that if they guy can afford the HGH go for it .

this is what I would if I were in your place , based on your goals.


16 weeks cycle .

First 8 weeks use to bulk , ( drugs like sust , d-bol and EQ ) , then use the last 8 weeks to CUT ( drugs like winny , var and primo ) . You can use the HGH in both phases , in the bulking phase and in the cutting phase , it will help both .

Bulking phase - Goal is to gain MUSCLE only , without increasing bodyfat . If you take the HGH and eat clean , you will probably be able to do it .

Cuttting phase - Goal is to drop bodyfat and maintain muscle , Lower your caloric intake , start the cardio and use the drugs to help you maintain the muscles . It will also give your muscles a dense and hard look .

I am currently 220 lbs and 15 % , My goals is 220-230 lbs but 5 % . So I need to shed a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle .

I am gonna start a similar cycle but mine will be 18 weeks . I have never used HEAVY AAS , only EQ , winny , primo and HGH .

So I think my recomendations will fit well for you .

Good luck

Victor

 

[genarr3]

Personal experience. When I was low BF around 10% or so I thought HGH was the bomb. You really notice the fat loss if you're already pretty low.
I've also done it at 15% or so and felt it didn't do dick for me. This is not a miracle drug, IMO you're wasting your money. The reason why some guys like Latamier love it so much is because there BF is already very low.

Try AAS alone. The extra muscle you gain will aid in fat loss. Get tighter on your diet. You're new to this, see how much you're willing to stick to it before you hit it full throttle. Do some searches on HGH, you'll see how many were disapointed with thier results.

 

[VictorBR]

My last HGH cycle I started with 13 % , it really worked pretty well for me . I took the HGH , EQ and win and finished with 8 % .

But yes , he gotta see how much he is willing to stick to it before he hits it full throttle . You have a good point here .


Victor