Please critique

[getbig1234]

240 Lbs/
just turned 26
low bodyfat/water bloat around gut a little.
I am strong and have been on and of bodybuilding for 10 years.

im about to do
anavar 75 mg ed wks 1-20
deca 450 ew wks 1-20
test e 600 mg ew(1-20)wks

then taper off with primo 200mg/wk1-3/100mg/wk primo3-7done.
what do you guys think is this good?

Want to get to about a solid 260 lbs regular. No I do not compete. thanks for all the help advance my bros.

 

[bw1]

I wouldn't taper off

 

[getbig1234]

I wouldn't taper off

what up brother.
why not this is what my doc said was good. but then again he dosn't specialize in this stuff. I fIgured my hpta would start to restore itself from the low dose primo.

 

[eddymerckx]

what up brother.
why not this is what my doc said was good. but then again he dosn't specialize in this stuff. I fIgured my hpta would start to restore itself from the low dose primo.

your doc suggested 600 mg of test and 450 of deca for a week for 20 weeks?

 

[hehateme000]

arent orals for 20 weeks a bad idea?

 

[getbig1234]

your doc suggested 600 mg of test and 450 of deca for a week for 20 weeks?

No thats what he said to taper off. slowley reduce the dosage and the body would make up for it.

 

[AhMadKooL]

No need for primo in the end for 2 reasons:
1) Dose your suggesting is low and 7 weeks is too little of a time to see results
2) Primo does cause suppression of your hpta

 

[GUARDIAN]

what is your cycle history?

20 weeks is a long long time

 

[Mavafanculo]

just generally on the compounds, you're sort of working against yourself.

some of deca's size gains are intramuscular fat (good).

var preferentially burns visceral (including intramuscular) fat.


just stick with test/deca on the way up (maybe add dbol for traditional bulker)

consider ending with var and or primo . since you're under a doctors care for something (I assume), run it by him.

 

[getbig1234]

thanks mav./guardian/ I haved done about 7 cycles. I dont ever get shut down but I take stuff to prevent it. I need to get my stoumach ripped as much as I can, while on deca/test. would masteron be better to throw in place of the var?

 

[GUARDIAN]

thanks mav./guardian/ I haved done about 7 cycles. I dont ever get shut down but I take stuff to prevent it. I need to get my stoumach ripped as much as I can, while on deca/test. would masteron be better to throw in place of the var?

i would stick with var but run it by your doc like mav suggested.

i am still not liking 20 weeks, especially 20 weeks of var.

 

[Mavafanculo]

thanks mav./guardian/ I haved done about 7 cycles. I dont ever get shut down but I take stuff to prevent it. I need to get my stoumach ripped as much as I can, while on deca/test. would masteron be better to throw in place of the var?

everyone reacts alittle differently, but test/deca/mast would be better on the bulkup side imo and in my experience - the mast will act as a mild anti-e/anti-a and bind SHBG to make your test much more effective and keep you tight. the extra intramuscular fat (deca and no var) will give size and leverage enabling bigger poundages.

Then you can swap in var on the cutting side in place of the masteron to take advantage of vars visceral/abdominal fat burning effects and enhanced endogenous HGH production (yes there are studies). also, like Guardian said you dont want to run var for real long periods - because of deterioration of HDL levels.

just an opinion, not dogma, doctor approval of course, and with the proviso that one mans best cycle may not be another mans best cycle. individual differences in receptor density by type for one thing.

 

[GUARDIAN]

can i please have a link to one of those studies or the journal info (i can pull it if need be)?

everyone reacts alittle differently, but test/deca/mast would be better on the bulkup side imo and in my experience - the mast will act as a mild anti-e/anti-a and bind SHBG to make your test much more effective and keep you tight. the extra intramuscular fat (deca and no var) will give size and leverage enabling bigger poundages.

Then you can swap in var on the cutting side in place of the masteron to take advantage of vars visceral/abdominal fat burning effects and enhanced endogenous HGH production (yes there are studies). also, like Guardian said you dont want to run var for real long periods - because of deterioration of HDL levels.

just an opinion, not dogma, doctor approval of course, and with the proviso that one mans best cycle may not be another mans best cycle. individual differences in receptor density by type for one thing.

 

[Mavafanculo]

can i please have a link to one of those studies or the journal info (i can pull it if need be)?

For visceral and Abdominal Fat Loss:

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment,
decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic
steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk
factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out
for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood
lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to
parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point.
SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone
(T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT
scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin
sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood
pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in
subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL
groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was
also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat,
and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at
3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of
treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and
decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin
uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two
groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the
ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone
decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from
ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months!
while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased
thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the
effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported
effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in
the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to
decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic
parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight
loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and
ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on
regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and
cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results
suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by
androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing
abdominal fat.

 

[getbig1234]

everyone reacts alittle differently, but test/deca/mast would be better on the bulkup side imo and in my experience - the mast will act as a mild anti-e/anti-a and bind SHBG to make your test much more effective and keep you tight. the extra intramuscular fat (deca and no var) will give size and leverage enabling bigger poundages.

Then you can swap in var on the cutting side in place of the masteron to take advantage of vars visceral/abdominal fat burning effects and enhanced endogenous HGH production (yes there are studies). also, like Guardian said you dont want to run var for real long periods - because of deterioration of HDL levels.

just an opinion, not dogma, doctor approval of course, and with the proviso that one mans best cycle may not be another mans best cycle. individual differences in receptor density by type for one thing.

Great bro. thanks! your right. good thing I got a decent amount of masteron. I appriciate it allot. I didint know it would help with the test. sweet!
I will do what you have recomended.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Thank u!

For visceral and Abdominal Fat Loss:

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment,
decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic
steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk
factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out
for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood
lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to
parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point.
SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone
(T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT
scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin
sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood
pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in
subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL
groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was
also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat,
and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at
3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of
treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and
decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin
uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two
groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the
ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone
decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from
ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months!
while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased
thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the
effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported
effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in
the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to
decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic
parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight
loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and
ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on
regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and
cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results
suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by
androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing
abdominal fat.

 

[chestrockwell420]

i dont have anything new to say from above...20 weeks on var is overdoin it,protect that liver. and if you dont compete, primo, imo is a waste.primo is best used b/f contest and your bf needs to be real low.just my .02...good luck

 

[bw1]

what up brother.
why not this is what my doc said was good. but then again he dosn't specialize in this stuff. I fIgured my hpta would start to restore itself from the low dose primo.

I would definitely follow your doc's advise. That said, you are running a twenty week cycle. I would do pct after that instead of extending the cyle with primo.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Thank u!

thats for the "steroids dont burn fat" posts (a few a month)