Planning 1st cycle..Spring Break and PCT

[Jayhawk21]

I plan on running my first cycle ever starting towards the end of January. It is going to be a six week Oral T-Bol only cycle at 50 mg ED. I plan on going on spring break March 18-25, so I was planning on my cycle ending on March 10th.

I am 5-10 177 lbs with 10% BF, 245 lbs bench starting from 125 lbs 5 years ago. I would like to get to 190-195 lbs 300 bench and 7.5% bf. I realize I probably won't get to that on a cycle like this, but I am only willing to do a cycle that has little side effects and doesn't aromatize. I have had natural gynecomastia in the right nipple and had it surgically removed so I am prone to that. I'm also worried about hair loss a little bit as well. Anyways, some questions..

1) If I ate a clean 4000-5000 kcal diet, what results could one expect from this small cycle? I want to get bigger, stronger, and look more ripped (don't we all lol) for spring break, and just in general.

2) What is an appropriate PCT for this cycle? Should I start it a day after my last dosage of T-Bol? Nolva..Clomid?

3) I was wondering if adding some var 20-30 mg ED for six weeks would be beneficial or just mimicking what T-Bol since I have heard they are similar? I know alot of people don't like the idea of two orals at once so maybe this would be too toxic on the liver, but I like the fact that var would add make me look more ripped during spring break and add a little strength boost possibly.

4) What are some good liver detox and treatment to use and when? I've heard of milk thistle but how does that work? Additionally, as you can imagine I will be drinking alot on spring break a week after my proposed cycle, I don't know if that would affect the liver in any way after an oral cycle??

5) How should I split the dosage up if I decide to go T-Bol only? 20 mg in the morn, 30 mg at night?

Alright, I think that about covers it, been reading for a while, but new so go easy on me

TY

 

[ortiz34]

TYLERS LIVER DETOX

AF STORE

https://www.anafit.com/shop/

 

[pentatonic]

1) If I ate a clean 4000-5000 kcal diet, what results could one expect from this small cycle? I want to get bigger, stronger, and look more ripped (don't we all lol) for spring break, and just in general.

2) What is an appropriate PCT for this cycle? Should I start it a day after my last dosage of T-Bol? Nolva..Clomid?

3) I was wondering if adding some var 20-30 mg ED for six weeks would be beneficial or just mimicking what T-Bol since I have heard they are similar? I know alot of people don't like the idea of two orals at once so maybe this would be too toxic on the liver, but I like the fact that var would add make me look more ripped during spring break and add a little strength boost possibly.

4) What are some good liver detox and treatment to use and when? I've heard of milk thistle but how does that work? Additionally, as you can imagine I will be drinking alot on spring break a week after my proposed cycle, I don't know if that would affect the liver in any way after an oral cycle??

5) How should I split the dosage up if I decide to go T-Bol only? 20 mg in the morn, 30 mg at night?

Alright, I think that about covers it, been reading for a while, but new so go easy on me

TY

Getting the ripped look will come from your diet. Looks with the calories you stated you will be bulking instead of cutting so I would be expecting to lose some of that ripped look and gaining some mass with what you have stated.

I use Liv-52 for liver supps but i've read nothing but good things about Tyler's Liver Detox. I personally wouldn't think about drinking alcohol while on an oral cycle or at least for some time after I have come off a cycle consisting of orals.

I take Tbol spread throughout the day but with it's half life, taking it twice a day would be fine too.

 

[Its All Genetics]

have we hit the " spring cutting cycles" for spring break already!
wow....


newys at least ur planned out..how about throwing some test in there as well?

 

[Jayhawk21]

Hmm..well I don't really want to cut, but would like to gain solid muscle without gaining too much fat at all. For example, people that gain 10 pounds on T-Bol with a rather clean diet does their body fat rise significantly, go down, and stay the same? I don't know if I want to do test because I've read about people having acne problems while on test, and I don't want to go to spring break with acne scattered all over. 187 9% with a 285 lbs bench would be great for spring break, maybe I'm asking too much

 

[testbaby25]

Spring break already ??? Shit I dont have my 2 week, loose 10% bf and gain 5 pounds cycle lined up yet!!!

 

[Joe Stenson]

You don't want to be doing PCT while you're pounding booze all day on vacation.

 

[cswole]

have we hit the " spring cutting cycles" for spring break already!
wow....


newys at least ur planned out..how about throwing some test in there as well?

Same thing I was thinking. Honestly, if you are planning on drinking right after, don't even bother with this. Why? For one, you need to keep lifting big and eating big and clean (this bud isn't for you!) to keep your gains from a bulk cycle. If you are going to cut... well that beer is just going to do the opposite of what you worked hard for. Also, your liver while it won't be beaten to hell, will have had a hefty work load from the cycle, and instead of hammering it with alcohol, you need to let it detox... again meaning lay of the booze for a good while.

So, you are obviously going to drink, look just diet down, naturally. Get a little bit leaner, and enjoy your spring break. It isn't worth it to throw on 10 lbs, just for the ladies... or men if that is what you are into hah. Anyways, you will have plenty of time afterwards to throw on some muscle.

Do some more research, and don't be a pussy about the needle, there are some injectables that won't be such a worry with gyno, such as winstrol. EQ usually isn't too bad on most, but some have problems with it. Test ..well it depends on the person, Deca I'd stay away from if you are gyno prone.

Also, I see you are worried about your bench max. I really hate to see this as a persons list for the goals. Why? For one bench max proves didly squat. I lift as much as guys that are a bit bigger than me, but I'm just a cockstrong little bastard. I'd rather be in their position and have the size to look like I could lift twice as much as me. Also, I wouldn't put much thought into 1 rep maxouts. Why? That is energy you could put into adding 5-10 lbs more on your working sets of 6-8 or 8-10 whatever it is you prefer to work with. If you want to be a powerlifter, fine set your goals for improving your max weight liftable, but you are obviously more concerned about bodybuilding, so worry about getting bigger, strength will come with the size eventually. Hell only thing I ever really maxed out on was front barbell shrugs, 600 lbs for 1 rep.... now its probably about 550 or so, I'm not as strong, but my traps are bigger and that's how I prefer it, I haven't maxed out since that day at 600. I just work out with 435 on shrugs and leave it at that.

 

[Jayhawk21]

Honestly, if you are planning on drinking right after, don't even bother with this. Why? , you need to keep lifting big and eating big and clean (this bud isn't for you!) to keep your gains from a bulk cycle. If you are going to cut... well that beer is just going to do the opposite of what you worked hard for.

Well, I want to bother with this because I want to look bigger and stronger for spring break and I want to look as good as possible. This is going to be the best seven days of my life so I want to make it well worth it. If I lose some of it through spring break, then so be it, but it would be well worth it even for seven days. I can always do another cycle towards summer if I want to do a second, and if not, no big deal.

You don't want to be doing PCT while you're pounding booze all day on vacation.

I've never heard this talked about before, so maybe I'm completely off but what if I started taking less T-Bol every other day at a less dosage for the week I'm on spring break to help maintain and start PCT during that too.

I'm mainly interested in the PCT of such a little cycle, and what I should take. Is my testosterone going to plummit that much after a six week cycle? Is it even worth taking clomid after this? I have heard that clomid causes acne during PCT as well as PCT in general. I know I should take Nolva, but should I take it throughout the entire cycle? What about dex?

 

[boops]

Well, I want to bother with this because I want to look bigger and stronger for spring break and I want to look as good as possible. This is going to be the best seven days of my life so I want to make it well worth it. If I lose some of it through spring break, then so be it, but it would be well worth it even for seven days. I can always do another cycle towards summer if I want to do a second, and if not, no big deal.



I've never heard this talked about before, so maybe I'm completely off but what if I started taking less T-Bol every other day at a less dosage for the week I'm on spring break to help maintain and start PCT during that too.

I'm mainly interested in the PCT of such a little cycle, and what I should take. Is my testosterone going to plummit that much after a six week cycle? Is it even worth taking clomid after this? I have heard that clomid causes acne during PCT as well as PCT in general. I know I should take Nolva, but should I take it throughout the entire cycle? What about dex?

you are the type of person that gives what we do a bad name, instead of baseball being the spearhead right now it should be idiots that use this just for spring break......

 

[Jayhawk21]

It isn't "just" for spring break, but I'd like to peak during spring break. People do things for different reasons and different agendas. I don't see what's wrong with this. For the record, it's not for the ladies. My friend challenged me to a liftoff before we go to spring break and I want to make progress. I'm sick of him making fun of me for training hard, eating well, and him still making better gains than me in the gym. More than anything, I want to get into the best shape of my life, for me. Sorry...

 

[Joe Stenson]

I've never heard this talked about before, so maybe I'm completely off but what if I started taking less T-Bol every other day at a less dosage for the week I'm on spring break to help maintain and start PCT during that too.

I'm mainly interested in the PCT of such a little cycle, and what I should take. Is my testosterone going to plummit that much after a six week cycle? Is it even worth taking clomid after this? I have heard that clomid causes acne during PCT as well as PCT in general. I know I should take Nolva, but should I take it throughout the entire cycle? What about dex?

You don't start PCT while you are still taking the drugs.

If you're not worried about travelling with gear, then yeah, go ahead and take a lower dosage for the week you're away. Your liver probably won't like you, but I'm sure you could do worse.

Yes, you need PCT. Nolva only will do, 40mg for 2 weeks followed by 20mg for 1-2 weeks after that. You shouldn't need ancillaries while you're on.

I don't see why everyone's jumping down your throat. Whenever I go on vacation I want to look my best too...I don't know anyone who doesn't.

 

[boops]

You don't start PCT while you are still taking the drugs.

If you're not worried about travelling with gear, then yeah, go ahead and take a lower dosage for the week you're away. Your liver probably won't like you, but I'm sure you could do worse.

Yes, you need PCT. Nolva only will do, 40mg for 2 weeks followed by 20mg for 1-2 weeks after that. You shouldn't need ancillaries while you're on.

I don't see why everyone's jumping down your throat. Whenever I go on vacation I want to look my best too...I don't know anyone who doesn't.

this isnt just for vacation, at least for me it isnt...its a lifestyle...fucking guy is 170 lbs and wants to juice, how about helping him get to 200 naturally......

 

[Joe Stenson]

this isnt just for vacation, at least for me it isnt...its a lifestyle...fucking guy is 170 lbs and wants to juice, how about helping him get to 200 naturally......

Anyone asking questions like this has already decided to take the plunge, so help them out instead of telling them how stupid they are...that's my opinion anyway.

Should he be using? Who knows, probably not. Is he going to? Yes, so we may as well tell him how to do it properly.

 

[boops]

Anyone asking questions like this has already decided to take the plunge, so help them out instead of telling them how stupid they are...that's my opinion anyway.

Should he be using? Who knows, probably not. Is he going to? Yes, so we may as well tell him how to do it properly.

so help them drag down what we do even more, nah ill pass thanks...theres more deserving people out there who actually want something productive out of this....

 

[Jayhawk21]

I don't see why everyone's jumping down your throat. Whenever I go on vacation I want to look my best too...I don't know anyone who doesn't.

Hey thank you I appreciate that. I just saw the threats popping up spring break cycle please help which are mocking this one, saying "need to look like brad pitt by spring break" and "have worked out for 2 months need to juice for break".

What the fuck? I've been lifting and eating hard for five years. I see guys come in here at 6-2 190 all the time with 17% bf and u go oh ya go ahead and juice, but 5-10 and 178, 10% you say no, which I understand but if I was 6-2 I'd weigh more than that. I'm currently going to start using Madcow's 5x5 routine to try get out of my plateau, and hopefully if I show results I won't even need gear.

ADDITIONALLY, the mocking in other threads I just don't understand. First off, I DON'T and have made it clear that I don't expect a huge gain from this cycle. Go back up, re-read, I never said I wanted to look like "Brad Pitt". I said I would like to gain ten pounds, without increasing my body fat a great deal, which is why I am chosing a mild cycle without alot of sides for my first one. From my understanding, this is what most users of T-Bol report.

I won't make any more posts like this, but I just felt I should defend myself a little. Sounds like I should run it and allow a good 3 weeks of PCT before my Spring Break, which I will look into. Any input in helping me out with PCT I would be extremely greatful. Thank you for those who have gave serious input, appreciate it.

Good day all

TY

 

[Joe Stenson]

I see guys come in here at 6-2 190 all the time with 17% bf and u go oh ya go ahead and juice, but 5-10 and 178, 10% you say no, which is fine but if I was 6-2 I'd weigh more than that..

Lots of people forget to take height into consideration. It's about 10lbs/inch (unless you're really ripped in which case it'd be less), so it's fairly substantial. That being said, 5'10 178lbs isn't really very big, so it brings into question whether or not your diet is in order if you've been training for 5 years.

Any input in helping me out with PCT I would be extremely greatful. Thank you for those who have gave serious input, appreciate.

I told you what to do above. I can't imagine others will say anything drastically different.

 

[boops]

Hey thank you I appreciate that. I just saw the threats popping up spring break cycle please help which are mocking this one, saying "need to look like brad pitt by spring break" and "have worked out for 2 months need to juice for break".

What the fuck? I've been lifting and eating hard for five years. I see guys come in here at 6-2 190 all the time with 17% bf and u go oh ya go ahead and juice, but 5-10 and 178, 10% you say no, which is fine but if I was 6-2 I'd weigh more than that. ADDITIONALLY, the mocking in other threads I just don't understand. First off, I DON'T and have made it clear that I don't expect a huge gain from this cycle. Go back up, re-read, I never said I wanted to look like "Brad Pitt". I said I would like to gain ten pounds, without increasing my body fat a great deal, which is why I am chosing a mild cycle without alot of sides for my first one. From my understanding, this is what most users of T-Bol report.

I won't make any more posts like this, but I just felt I should defend myself a little. Sounds like I should run it and allow a good 3 weeks of PCT before my Spring Break, which I will look into. Any input in helping me out with PCT I would be extremely greatful. Thank you for those who have gave serious input, appreciate.

Good day all

TY

hey bud....so youve been eating and lifting hard for 5 years huh and you weigh 178 , interesting....there is no magic weight to begin AS, my problem was with you and only wanting to do this for spring break and spring break alone...if you cant be responsible with this shit then like i said dont kill its reputation anymore cuz i can see it now.....you go out and party, perhaps forget you have your tabs on ya, then proceed to get into a fight and it all gets blamed on "roid rage" as your ass sits in jail....sorry if the only reason you want to do this is for chicks then thats sad...at least do it for yourself and in doing so im sure you would give the same advice as i have in this thread....

 

[pendit]

Lots of people forget to take height into consideration. It's about 10lbs/inch (unless you're really ripped in which case it'd be less), so it's fairly substantial. That being said, 5'10 178lbs isn't really very big, so it brings into question whether or not your diet is in order if you've been training for 5 years.

10lbs/inch? What's the baseline? I'm 6'4, I don't want to be 760 pounds! Hehehe

How does a T-bol only cycle affect libido? (especially during PCT)

Hey JayHawk, is this your last spring break or could you hold off until next spring break and maybe run a solid cycle or 2?

 

[cswole]

There will be more spring breaks, there will be more girls, and most important there will be more TIME to do a cycle, and do it properly. I don't want to be mean, but it seems like you need someone to put you in check, and I wish someone would have done this for me... but you are fucking SMALL. We all have to start somewhere but 5'10 178 is too small , you could get to 190 natural easily within a couple years by eating big. I started AAS at like 165 at 5'8. I wish someone would have slapped me with a good piece of advice on waiting. I could have blasted to 180-185 naturally easily.

So you want to one up your buddy? Fucking please. If he is making better gains than you, he has at LEAST one of the following going on for him that you aren't utilizing to the fullest:

1) Lifting to failure, using proper form on each and every rep
2) Not overtraining
3) Eating right
4) Sleeping enough
5) Keeping his body clean(no rec drugs or alcohol)
6) On Juice and one or more of the above(especially diet, sleep, and training)

So you are worried about your looks for the ladies and your ego with your buddy? When you learn that bodybuilding is a SELFISH sport, you will become a better bodybuilder. You do this shit for YOURSELF and no one else. Don't give a damn whether the ladies like you or not, honestly they usually like a fit smaller guy, about your size, cut up, most don't like the huge motherfuckers that look like they are Arnold's offspring. Who gives a fuck if so and so can lift bigger? I don't give a damn if a pencil neck 150lb guy can outbench press me, guess who has the better body? I could give a damn if a girl likes me for my body or not, I do it because I want to be a freaky huge motherfucker, I don't care if every person hates that I become that big, fuck em it's my body not theirs. When you can possess this attitude, then you truely understand the sport of bodybuilding, its for yourself, not others.

Want to do it to be healthy? Stay natural. Steroids won't kill you, but they don't improve your health, just aid in growing/cutting stages, they will raise cholestorol(the bad kind and lower the good), they will raise blood pressure, they can cause liver problems if abused to an extreme extent. They aren't bad, but they sure as hell don't make you healthier.

There will be other spring breaks my man. Also if this is going to be the best 7 days of your life, you have a sad life ahead of you. My pledge semester easily outweighed my spring breaks and cruises... and that's just concerning getting laid. Hell I'd rather sit at home and play some xbox360 after a good session at the gym than go to spring break(perhaps that's because I'm engaged, but my point is that there are better things in life than a 7 day fuckfest).

Believe me bro, diet down natural(cut up), the girls will love you. They are more into the brad pitt thing than Ronnie Coleman.

 

[Joe Stenson]

10lbs/inch? What's the baseline? I'm 6'4, I don't want to be 760 pounds! Hehehe

5'11 220 at 12% or something like that I believe (supposedly one's genetical potential).

It's not an exact science, but the point is height matters. I love when people 4 inches taller than me are surprised they weigh 5 lbs more than I do and think I look bigger.

 

[dr_skier]

There is nothing wrong with this guy's motives for his spring break cycle. He posed intelligent questions seeking our guidence. It is more than obvious that he researched before asking too... So what he wishes to looked ripped for the ladies? I'm sure a decent percentage of us here juice and train for vanities sake, I know I do. My advise bro is hit up 500mg/test E or Cyp/ Week and train lots, eat healthy, get your protein in ya, do your am cardio and have fun. I'd almost even double shot before u head on vacation and keep it in your system while on SB, then train like a demond when u get back and start your pct.... Good Luck

 

[Joe Stenson]

I'd almost even double shot before u head on vacation and keep it in your system while on SB, then train like a demond when u get back and start your pct.... Good Luck

The only thing you have to be careful with when doing this is the unstable blood levels from changing up your dosing schedule can increase sides. I did something similar to what you suggested before my last vacation and man, did my back break out .

 

[dr_skier]

That's a risk involved, that's for sure..... *touch wood* i'm lucky my skin co-operates, untill i come off...

 

[Throw2Far]

Dude, I understand your dilema.. you're only in college once and when you get into the work world NO THERE WON'T BE MORE SPRING BREAKS! So here is your answer:

Do a 3 week Tbol @ 50mgED 10 Weeks before spring break. Then 2 weeks Nolvadex. 2 weeks nothing. Then 4 weeks Tbol(50mg)/Anavar(20mg) with your 4th week being Spring Break. Directly after 3 weeks of Nolva.

Some good bros on this board report 10 pounds on a 3 week Tbol. If you go up about 8 on your first one and around 5 on your second you would have met your goals... Strength also increases.

Also if you want to look big on the beach go hit a muscle group in the morning of spring break and you'll look way bigger the rest of the week.

 

[cswole]

Dude, I understand your dilema.. you're only in college once and when you get into the work world NO THERE WON'T BE MORE SPRING BREAKS! So here is your answer:

Do a 3 week Tbol @ 50mgED 9 Weeks before spring break. Then 2 weeks Nolvadex. Then 4 weeks Tbol(50mg)/Anavar(20mg) with your 4th week being Spring Break.

Some good bros on this board report 10 pounds on a 3 week Tbol. If you go up about 8 on your first one and around 5 on your second you would have met your goals... Strength also increases.

College last 4 years .. 4.5-5 for most, and if you are looking into med school/law school etc, even longer. Plus paid vacation from work, pssht not like you will see those people again, tell em you go to college still. There is plenty of time. The guy is going to be drinking, it is irresponsible to drink while on/in stages of pct, stop acting like the kid won't fuck his liver up with this toxic mix.

 

[LVTitan]

I don't see why everyone's jumping down your throat. Whenever I go on vacation I want to look my best too...I don't know anyone who doesn't.

because every winter we get BOMBARDED with "i want to do my first cycle and completely transform my body for spring break " threads...
it's just that it's already starting and it's gonna wear out the vets in no time...

 

[Throw2Far]

College last 4 years .. 4.5-5 for most, and if you are looking into med school/law school etc, even longer. Plus paid vacation from work, pssht not like you will see those people again, tell em you go to college still. There is plenty of time. The guy is going to be drinking, it is irresponsible to drink while on/in stages of pct, stop acting like the kid won't fuck his liver up with this toxic mix.

Ya am talking about staying on Tbol during spring break and not doing pct during spring break... But yes, this will be veeeery toxic on your liver. I wouldn't recomend it but my philosophy has always been the kid will do it anyways and if we don't tell him the best available option he will make something up on his own which will be much more dangerous and ineffective.

 

[cswole]

Yea, which is why if he is going to do anything at all, he needs to do injectables. While they still stress the liver, not to the extent of orals. He already stated he'll be drinking. So the better option imo would be to do injectables if he is deadset on juicing. I still say the best option is to stay natural until after the spring break, the clean up his drinking/diet and if he wants to juice, do so then.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I'm pretty sure the whole liver toxicity thing is quite overblown. Clearly mixing booze and orals (2 things known to have a negative effect) isn't a great idea, but for one week I HIGHLY doubt it's going to do much. Start staying on orals for 6 months and drinking and then maybe you'll run into problems...

 

[boops]

Yea, which is why if he is going to do anything at all, he needs to do injectables. While they still stress the liver, not to the extent of orals. He already stated he'll be drinking. So the better option imo would be to do injectables if he is deadset on juicing. I still say the best option is to stay natural until after the spring break, the clean up his drinking/diet and if he wants to juice, do so then.

agre 100%....use good ol diet and cardio to cut up....i just get the feeling this guy is looking for a 1 week quick fix and thats it, thats why im hesitant to support something like that and help out......just what i think not supported by all (well at least one cswole)

 

[fatdog]

I’m 19 and I did about a 5 week blitz of oral winny low dose for my High school SB wouldn’t recommend it bro I was also taking liver detox through out the weeks didn’t feel normal for a couple weeks after I got back, kind of felt hung over! Just wait bro it’s not that big of a deal, you will still get ass… and it sucks slamming your liver like that too…

 

[02gixxersix2]

I didnt read all the responses but if no one has touched on it I will. It makes no sense to come off a cycle and a week later go on spring break and drink your ass off, You will just lose what you have worked so hard for. If I were you I'd stay natural and work on your diet from now until then. Most chicks just wanna see a lean Brad Pitt lookin mofucker anyways. Also at 177 lbs. I bet you are doing something wrong in the way of training if you can only bench 245 after 5 years of serious working out. I'm a hardgainer and I got to 250 naturally at a little lower weight (but 5'8") in about 6 months. Not saying you havent made good progress just saying that you should learn to tweak things while your natural to make the best out of your on cycle gains. Take it from somebody who took steroids to blow up without the discipline and wasted a lot of time.