pct regimes......who favours old school v new school??

[skaman007]

hey its nearlyv time for my sporing summer cycle and once again .the hardest part is not plannning my diet or aas its the frigggin topic of what pct to do??in the past i ihave tried ..clomid and nolva.....nolva and sustain.....atd and test boosters......clomid and hcg........this time im torn between an old school type and new school type pct ..
OLD SCHOOL;;;;HCG .FOLLOWED BY NOLVA AND AROMASIN...or
;;;;hcg followed by clomid .nolva..
new school....hcg followed by hcgenerate,forma,unleashed.post cycle...or

clomid and phytoserms .unleashed.????????????/.im thinking maybe a mixture of both is best tried...either small does clomid or nolva,aromasin..with something like sustain, or phytoserms .hcgenerate .etc..SO WHAT IS EVERYONES FAVOURITE SERM,??AND FAV OTC SUPP TO RUN ALONGSIDE?????

 

[skaman007]

hey its nearlyv time for my sporing summer cycle and once again .the hardest part is not plannning my diet or aas its the frigggin topic of what pct to do??in the past i ihave tried ..clomid and nolva.....nolva and sustain.....atd and test boosters......clomid and hcg........this time im torn between an old school type and new school type pct ..
OLD SCHOOL;;;;HCG .FOLLOWED BY NOLVA AND AROMASIN...or
;;;;hcg followed by clomid .nolva..
new school....hcg followed by hcgenerate,forma,unleashed.post cycle...or

clomid and phytoserms .unleashed.????????????/.im thinking maybe a mixture of both is best tried...either small does clomid or nolva,aromasin..with something like sustain, or phytoserms .hcgenerate .etc..SO WHAT IS EVERYONES FAVOURITE SERM,??AND FAV OTC SUPP TO RUN ALONGSIDE?????

THE UK SITE I PUT THIS QUESTION TOO ...easily favoured pct of nolva and aromasin with vitaminE.........seem to be anti-otc test boosters over here for pct.....maybe ntbm supps hittin the uk will change that.

 

[Zyglamail]

THE UK SITE I PUT THIS QUESTION TOO ...easily favoured pct of nolva and aromasin with vitaminE.........seem to be anti-otc test boosters over here for pct.....maybe ntbm supps hittin the uk will change that.

What is the logic behind taking nolva AND aromasin? Think about it, post cycle natural test is almost non existant and aromasin will make sure there is little or not conversion to E. So then you take nolva which binds to the E receptor and makes sure what little E you have, if any, has no where to bind. seems like overkill to me.

Then look at what HCG does, its triggers the testes into producing test. if your on say a 12 week cycle your testes havent done anything for 12 weeks so when you stop taking test your body is going to try and trigger test production.

Lets put this another way. Say you couldnt lift heavy for 12 weeks but you could lift light 2x a week, not enough weight to cause any muscle gains but enough to help preserve what you have. Would you chose to not exercise at all or workout lightly a couple times a week?

If you would opt for the couple light workouts a week, why? Guess what, taking HCG a couple times a week at light doses is like a light workout for your testes while on cycle.

 

[tical]

What is the logic behind taking nolva AND aromasin? Think about it, post cycle natural test is almost non existant and aromasin will make sure there is little or not conversion to E. So then you take nolva which binds to the E receptor and makes sure what little E you have, if any, has no where to bind. seems like overkill to me.

Then look at what HCG does, its triggers the testes into producing test. if your on say a 12 week cycle your testes havent done anything for 12 weeks so when you stop taking test your body is going to try and trigger test production.

Lets put this another way. Say you couldnt lift heavy for 12 weeks but you could lift light 2x a week, not enough weight to cause any muscle gains but enough to help preserve what you have. Would you chose to not exercise at all or workout lightly a couple times a week?

If you would opt for the couple light workouts a week, why? Guess what, taking HCG a couple times a week at light doses is like a light workout for your testes while on cycle.

Agreed, the entire point of PCT is to get the hypothalamus to start releasing GnRH once again.

GnRH is the signal responsible for the pituitary release of LH, which is responsible for raising endogenous testosterone which can then be converted to estrogen.

When we cycle, the presence of excess estrogens and androgens is recognized by the brain and, in an effort to reach homeostasis, the hypothalamus stops GnRH signaling (to try and lower hormones).

Nolvadex, Clomid, and Aromasin can all theoretically achieve the same desired resposne by significantly lowering estrogen, or blocking receptors, fooling the brain into thinking that hormone levels are almost non-existent - triggering the release of GnRH->LH->Testosterone.

A lot of people have the misconception that they need to shotgun PCT or hit it as hard as they would a cycle, and this is not the case at all. This is why so many people suffer from horrible emotional and libido related side effects when taking SERMs like nolvadex or clomid or even combining a handful of different things for PCT. Completely unnecessary. One drug that either eliminates estrogen or blocks estrogen receptors is enough.

A low dose of these any of these pharmacuiticals should be plenty enough to block the low estrogen levels one would have when they stop cycling (low endogenous testosterone = low estrogen).

Users of steroids understand the need for PCT - because their HPTA is suppressed. This understanding needs to be carried over during the consideration of PCT drug quantities. Why use a high dose SERM if you know your natural testosterone production is already very low (meaning low estrogen).

Anyone that is planning on cycling for a long period of time, and set on using drugs like clomid, nolvadex, etc for PCT should put some effort into finding their own sweet spot with respect to the dosage of the drug (where LH and testosterone are at the top of the range). This could significantly reduce or prevent the side effects that some have experienced.

The use of low dose HCG is also important to consider while cycling (especially when cycling for long periods). When the testes are not receiving LH they don't just stop the production of testosterone. LH is also responsible for increasing the activity of the P450scc enzyme, which is responsible for the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is the mother hormone / primary building block for all other steroid hormones in the body. HCG mimics LH in the testes, keeping this enzyme active.

 

[skaman007]

What is the logic behind taking nolva AND aromasin? Think about it, post cycle natural test is almost non existant and aromasin will make sure there is little or not conversion to E. So then you take nolva which binds to the E receptor and makes sure what little E you have, if any, has no where to bind. seems like overkill to me.

Then look at what HCG does, its triggers the testes into producing test. if your on say a 12 week cycle your testes havent done anything for 12 weeks so when you stop taking test your body is going to try and trigger test production.

Lets put this another way. Say you couldnt lift heavy for 12 weeks but you could lift light 2x a week, not enough weight to cause any muscle gains but enough to help preserve what you have. Would you chose to not exercise at all or workout lightly a couple times a week?

If you would opt for the couple light workouts a week, why? Guess what, taking HCG a couple times a week at light doses is like a light workout for your testes while on cycle.

aromasin lowers shbg,and reducing estrogeon means having better levels of test which is helpful whilst our endogenous test levels recover//25mgs of aromasin wil raise test by 60 per cent and free test by 20 per cent ....also has beneficial effects on bone mineral and lipd metabolism..and since nolva at only 20mg is as strong as 150mg clomid its the perfect partner for aromasin .after hcg has done its job..............none of this iws my words or thinking but an extract of an anthony roberst article where the idea came from,,,,...im not for or against the idea..just throwing it out there to get some educated replies .to make my mind up.....anyone wanting more info google anthony roberts aromasin nolva pct ............cos i dont have the answers,lol

 

[Zyglamail]

aromasin lowers shbg,and reducing estrogeon means having better levels of test which is helpful whilst our endogenous test levels recover//25mgs of aromasin will raise test by 60 per cent and free test by 20 per cent ....also has beneficial effects on bone mineral and lipd metabolism..and since nolva at only 20mg is as strong as 150mg clomid its the perfect partner for aromasin .after hcg has done its job..............none of this iws my words or thinking but an extract of an anthony roberst article where the idea came from,,,,...im not for or against the idea..just throwing it out there to get some educated replies .to make my mind up.....anyone wanting more info google anthony roberts aromasin nolva pct ............cos i dont have the answers,lol

Post cycle estrogen is generally low because test is low. Not all E comes from T but a large amount does in a lean, clean eating individual.

So destroying the aromatase enzyme, which in turn turns T to E will do what in the presence of virtually no T to begin with?

The reason that historically clomid/nolve/ana/aromisin etc have been used for PCT is because the they have been shown to increase natural test production. You obviously know this because you quoted percentages above, but guess what, those studies where done on people with normal test production, not people whos testes have been shut down for 12 weeks. And, even if it increased post cycle test production by 60%, 60% increase of virtually nothing is still basically nothing.

Estrogen is ONE of the many hormones used to monitor and adjust the HPTA. If E is low, the assumption is E is low so thereby blocking E should increase T and in someone with fully functioning testes it does....to a degree because as I said there are other feedback mechanisms.

Now what I was really trying to point out above was that its easier to maintain strength when you can at least use your muscles a little. The same point holds true for your testes. If you can force them to kick on a couple days a week instead of just letting them shut down and atrophy for 12 weeks they will respond faster to the LH that is released WHEN your body starts releasing it again.

I would wager that you can by and large skip all the anti-e's post cycle if you simply keep your testes working during cycle because at that point its not a matter of getting the testes to kick on its a matter of getting your body to produce GnRH again and once it does your testes, since they havent been shut down solid for 12 weeks or more, are more apt to favorably respond to your bodies GnRH production.

Post cycle, T is low and E is low so taking a bunch of stuff to stop E, that is hardly present anyway is going to do what? If you havent used HCG you have atrophied testes AND a hypothalamus thats out of what. If you take HCG during cycle and a little post cycle until test clears then at least your just dealing with a hypothalamus thats not producing and not both a shut down hypothalamus and testes.

 

[skaman007]

Post cycle estrogen is generally low because test is low. Not all E comes from T but a large amount does in a lean, clean eating individual.

So destroying the aromatase enzyme, which in turn turns T to E will do what in the presence of virtually no T to begin with?

The reason that historically clomid/nolve/ana/aromisin etc have been used for PCT is because the they have been shown to increase natural test production. You obviously know this because you quoted percentages above, but guess what, those studies where done on people with normal test production, not people whos testes have been shut down for 12 weeks. And, even if it increased post cycle test production by 60%, 60% increase of virtually nothing is still basically nothing.

Estrogen is ONE of the many hormones used to monitor and adjust the HPTA. If E is low, the assumption is E is low so thereby blocking E should increase T and in someone with fully functioning testes it does....to a degree because as I said there are other feedback mechanisms.

Now what I was really trying to point out above was that its easier to maintain strength when you can at least use your muscles a little. The same point holds true for your testes. If you can force them to kick on a couple days a week instead of just letting them shut down and atrophy for 12 weeks they will respond faster to the LH that is released WHEN your body starts releasing it again.

I would wager that you can by and large skip all the anti-e's post cycle if you simply keep your testes working during cycle because at that point its not a matter of getting the testes to kick on its a matter of getting your body to produce GnRH again and once it does your testes, since they havent been shut down solid for 12 weeks or more, are more apt to favorably respond to your bodies GnRH production.

Post cycle, T is low and E is low so taking a bunch of stuff to stop E, that is hardly present anyway is going to do what? If you havent used HCG you have atrophied testes AND a hypothalamus thats out of what. If you take HCG during cycle and a little post cycle until test clears then at least your just dealing with a hypothalamus thats not producing and not both a shut down hypothalamus and testes.

thanks ,,what is your fav pct?