PCT Outline for a good bro. NPC guy.

[musclehealth]

PCT Outline for a good bro. NPC guy. (RADAR, MODS HELP)

He was on a long cycle consisting of Test and many, many, many other things thrown in (Trenace, Prop, masteron, winny). He is an NPC competitor with great stats but is planning his HCG for the first time and wanted my help. I figured you guys would be the best to ask!

This is what I have outlined for his PCT...


Week 1---1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) with 40mg Nolva ED/ 100mg clomid
Week 2---1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) with 40mg Nolva ED/100mg clomid
Week 3---1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) with 40mg Nolva ED/50mg clomid
Week 4---20mg Nolva ED/ 50mg clomid ED.
Week 5---20mg Nolva ED
Week 6---20mg Nolva ED

He does Wed/Saturday Inject's of long acting @ the time (Test Enanthate). When should he start the HCG. I hear 5-10 days after last inject. Help would be appreciated.

 

[Wulfgar]

Id pitch in some low dose A-Dex(.5 mg EOD) @ least
Nolva is decent estro control but he will rebound HARD from being on that long with increased estrogen levels.
Also, what r u going to have him do about cortisol suppresion?

 

[gymratforlife]

Id pitch in some low dose A-Dex(.5 mg EOD) @ least
Nolva is decent estro control but he will rebound HARD from being on that long with increased estrogen levels.
Also, what r u going to have him do about cortisol suppresion?

Pardon my ignorance bro but what exactly causes the cortisol issue?

 

[musclehealth]

Id pitch in some low dose A-Dex(.5 mg EOD) @ least
Nolva is decent estro control but he will rebound HARD from being on that long with increased estrogen levels.
Also, what r u going to have him do about cortisol suppresion?

I will have him throw in .5mg EOD, or ED armidex into the pct. AS for cortisol suppresion, I have NO idea. Any suggestions?

 

[Ju|ceMaN]

Pardon my ignorance bro but what exactly causes the cortisol issue?

I believe that shit eats your gains! Cortisol = bad

 

[gymratforlife]

Im in the dark about cortisol too.All I know is that it eats your gains but I thought between clomid and HCG it was good enought to take care of that.

 

[njmuscleguy]

phosphatidylserine, vitamin c, DHEA, Gingko are all OTC products that lower cortisol

 

[Ju|ceMaN]

isn't it produced by stress or some shit?

 

[Wulfgar]

Cotisol is catabolic. The body produces it in massive amounts when to much anabolism has taken place too quickly as a means of maintaining homeostatis. Cortisol receptors are crippled by AAS use(especially tren, Dbol, and test). but post cycle the levels go up extreemly fast.
trilostane(perscription), methoxyisoflavone, Vit C, low dose T-3, clen, Ephedra, GH, cytadren(prescription, phosphatidylserine, cratine, glutamine, are just some of the names that come to mind that aid in suppressing cortisol
I personally prefer to run clen, ephedra, low dose T-3 and a small amount of cytadren in the beggning on my PCT to stave off its effects. be careful with cytadren though cause it blocks the biosynthesis of ALL hormones. kinda hard to kickstart the old HPTA if u got a chemical blocking everything from the first phase.

 

[gymratforlife]

Cotisol is catabolic. The body produces it in massive amounts when to much anabolism has taken place too quickly as a means of maintaining homeostatis. Cortisol receptors are crippled by AAS use(especially tren, Dbol, and test). but post cycle the levels go up extreemly fast.
trilostane(perscription), methoxyisoflavone, Vit C, low dose T-3, clen, Ephedra, GH, cytadren(prescription, phosphatidylserine, cratine, glutamine, are just some of the names that come to mind that aid in suppressing cortisol
I personally prefer to run clen, ephedra, low dose T-3 and a small amount of cytadren in the beggning on my PCT to stave off its effects. be careful with cytadren though cause it blocks the biosynthesis of ALL hormones. kinda hard to kickstart the old HPTA if u got a chemical blocking everything from the first phase.

Bro your a fountain of info thanx a million.

 

[musclehealth]

You are one of only a few guys that I get GOOD info from.

He was planning on running 50mcg t3(25 am/25pm), 100mcg clen and 60mcg(pwo) Igf-1 for 33 days.

Hows that look?

Cotisol is catabolic. The body produces it in massive amounts when to much anabolism has taken place too quickly as a means of maintaining homeostatis. Cortisol receptors are crippled by AAS use(especially tren, Dbol, and test). but post cycle the levels go up extreemly fast.
trilostane(perscription), methoxyisoflavone, Vit C, low dose T-3, clen, Ephedra, GH, cytadren(prescription, phosphatidylserine, cratine, glutamine, are just some of the names that come to mind that aid in suppressing cortisol
I personally prefer to run clen, ephedra, low dose T-3 and a small amount of cytadren in the beggning on my PCT to stave off its effects. be careful with cytadren though cause it blocks the biosynthesis of ALL hormones. kinda hard to kickstart the old HPTA if u got a chemical blocking everything from the first phase.

 

[musclehealth]

You are one of only a few guys that I get GOOD info from.

He was planning on running 50mcg t3(25 am/25pm), 100mcg clen and 60mcg(pwo) Igf-1 for 33 days.

Hows that look?

He has armidex and letro if needed.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

If you want to check out my website, I have a pretty long (10 page) PCT article on it that I wrote:

www.anthony-roberts.com

 

[gautho]

I said this a million time, wulfgar knows his shit. Very interesting posts wulfgar.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Wulfgar... what would be a good dosage and duration for t3 during PCT? Do you still ramp up and down but just keep max dosage to 25mcg? This sounds interesting, enlighten us ole bro!

 

[njmuscleguy]

2 more notes:

He won't need nolvadex AND clomid...that's way overkill... choose one or the other, depending on preference (I personally prefer clomid).

As for HCG dosage, he can experiment with this, but running 500iu ED or EOD for 10-21 days may prove more effective... higher dosages of HCG could suppress the HPTA even more and spike up estrogen levels. This is always heatedly debated.

Use an AI for the first 3-4 weeks to combat estrogen spikes caused by HCG

 

[aceofspades]

Im in the dark about cortisol too.All I know is that it eats your gains but I thought between clomid and HCG it was good enought to take care of that.

Another product to lower cortisol is called Lean Xtreme. It is a great product for PCT.

http://www.designersupps.com/static_site/leanxtreme.php

 

[musclehealth]

Cotisol is catabolic. The body produces it in massive amounts when to much anabolism has taken place too quickly as a means of maintaining homeostatis. Cortisol receptors are crippled by AAS use(especially tren, Dbol, and test). but post cycle the levels go up extreemly fast.
trilostane(perscription), methoxyisoflavone, Vit C, low dose T-3, clen, Ephedra, GH, cytadren(prescription, phosphatidylserine, cratine, glutamine, are just some of the names that come to mind that aid in suppressing cortisol
I personally prefer to run clen, ephedra, low dose T-3 and a small amount of cytadren in the beggning on my PCT to stave off its effects. be careful with cytadren though cause it blocks the biosynthesis of ALL hormones. kinda hard to kickstart the old HPTA if u got a chemical blocking everything from the first phase.

This is what I came up with...

Started 5 days after last Testosterone Enanthate Shot...WEd was last shot. PCT starts Monday.
Throughout PCT...Week 1-6.
50mcg T3 ED
80mcg Clen
60mcg Igf-1 (post workout)....To help with mentally coming off. ---(4 weeks)
Vitamin “C” ED.
Creatine/glutamine 5g ED.


Week 1—
1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
40mg Nolvadex ED
100mg Clomid ED
1mg Armidex ED
2.5mg Letro ED

Week 2—
1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
40mg Nolvadex ED
100mg Clomid ED
1mg Armidex ED
2.5mg Letro ED

Week 3---
1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
40mg Nolvadex ED
50mg Clomid ED
1mg Armidex ED
2.5mg Letro ED

Week 4—
40mg Nolvadex ED
50mg Clomid ED
1mg Armidex ED
2.5mg Letro ED

Week 5—
20mg Nolvadex ED
.5 mg Armidex ED
1.5 mg Letro ED

Week 6—
20mg Nolva ED
.5 Armidex ED
1.5mg Letro ED

 

[musclehealth]

I was also reading that 500IU ED of hcg might be better then 1,500IU 3x week. any thoughts on that guys?

 

[njmuscleguy]

whoah, waaaay to many anti-e's in there for PCT man.... is this guy very gyno-prone? keep the adex, get rid of the letro (that's a high dose of letro)... you want *some* estrogen during recovery... otherwise you'll have absolutely no libido and your joints will hate you... also, no need for both SERM's (nolva and clomid).... stick to one

 

[aceofspades]

I would not recommend running the HCG during your PCT but I would run it during the cycle at about 250iu 2x per week starting the 2nd week. During PCT you are trying to get your body to start making natural testosterone and HCG is suppresive and will shut you down even more. I know people have many different thoughts about this but I have been told this many times on other boards also. I would also take both the Clomid and Nolva for PCT.

 

[musclehealth]

whoah, waaaay to many anti-e's in there for PCT man.... is this guy very gyno-prone? keep the adex, get rid of the letro (that's a high dose of letro)... you want *some* estrogen during recovery... otherwise you'll have absolutely no libido and your joints will hate you... also, no need for both SERM's (nolva and clomid).... stick to one

I think im going to go with clomid then. I hate the way it makes me feel mentally but I know it works! Nolva I am sometimes fishy about. I will start the hcg shots a week before I come off.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I think im going to go with clomid then. I hate the way it makes me feel mentally but I know it works! Nolva I am sometimes fishy about. I will start the hcg shots a week before I come off.

Sounds good...then I would run the HCG to about 2 weeks after your last test shot, to make sure your body is primed enough to start producing its own test

 

[Wulfgar]

You are one of only a few guys that I get GOOD info from.

He was planning on running 50mcg t3(25 am/25pm), 100mcg clen and 60mcg(pwo) Igf-1 for 33 days.

Hows that look?

it looks good bro
u get my PM?

 

[Wulfgar]

Wulfgar... what would be a good dosage and duration for t3 during PCT? Do you still ramp up and down but just keep max dosage to 25mcg? This sounds interesting, enlighten us ole bro!

sorry bro...i answered this on your other post
I know my logic goes agaisnt common traditional methodologies.
but all I can say as 'think" about what I write and give it a shot. ive seen it work countless times in clinical studies for myself and others..
btw...no need to ramp up or down with the T-3...simply use 50 mcg on a 2 day on 2 day off protocol to protect thyroid function. if u have acess to tiratricol use it on the off days. if not, just use your ECA stack on those days. to further enhance effectiveness use clen on your T-3 days.

 

[Wulfgar]

Sounds good...then I would run the HCG to about 2 weeks after your last test shot, to make sure your body is primed enough to start producing its own test

i prefer starting PCT about 7 days before Im sure the last of the AAS is cleared out of my system. this is to minimize ANY time the cortisol/estrogen rebound can occur.
I.e. while my exogenous test is lowering I am concurrently raising my endogenous test levels with proper PCT protocols.

 

[Vascular Freak]

sorry bro...i answered this on your other post
I know my logic goes agaisnt common traditional methodologies.
but all I can say as 'think" about what I write and give it a shot. ive seen it work countless times in clinical studies for myself and others..
btw...no need to ramp up or down with the T-3...simply use 50 mcg on a 2 day on 2 day off protocol to protect thyroid function. if u have acess to tiratricol use it on the off days. if not, just use your ECA stack on those days. to further enhance effectiveness use clen on your T-3 days.

Very interesting bro, do you notice any benefit of fat loss, or better yet the ability to eat more with out gaining fat while using this PCT? I am interested in your experiences bro, if thats you in your avatar you look solid bro

 

[black sheep]

I would run the HCG first at 500iu ed for 10 days - then go into Nolva and Clomid. I have found this to be the best recovery method for me, and I have tried them all. I also run Aromasin the whole time at 10mg ed.

 

[Ulter]

WulfgarI wish you stop posting that people should use T3 in the PCT.
You know what's worse than a guy who doesn't know anything? I guy who knows a little bit. You keep posting all this crazy stuff, like telling someone not to use Dbol or using T3 while you're off of AS, and because you know a little bit people think they should follow your advice.

Cortisol suppression is done with DHEA and Oxytocin.

Musclehealth, He's better off shooting the HCG daily at a lower dose. 1000iu/day is max. He should use an Aromatase Inhibitor but Arimidex is a poor choice. AIFM or Aromasin is much better.

 

[stressman13]

Ulter, when should one start use of HCG for PCT? I see people saying a week before last test shot and others 2 weeks after. What is your opinion on this??

WulfgarI wish you stop posting that people should use T3 in the PCT.
You know what's worse than a guy who doesn't know anything? I guy who knows a little bit. You keep posting all this crazy stuff, like telling someone not to use Dbol or using T3 while you're off of AS, and because you know a little bit people think they should follow your advice.

Cortisol suppression is done with DHEA and Oxytocin.

Musclehealth, He's better off shooting the HCG daily at a lower dose. 1000iu/day is max. He should use an Aromatase Inhibitor but Arimidex is a poor choice. AIFM or Aromasin is much better.

 

[Ulter]

PCT starts two weeks after your last shot, usually.
That's why you see that. HCG however isn't used to start your HPTA (natural test system) directly. It used to make your testes start up by tricking them into thinking LH is present and they should blow back up. When you do this it makes it easier for them to start working again. But HCG keeps them big and bouncy for a couple weeks. So you can start using it in the last week of the cycle and your testes will be ready for the real thing by the time you start your HPTA up two weeks post cycle.
I recommend starting it on the day of your last shot for 10 days straight.

 

[stressman13]

PCT starts two weeks after your last shot, usually.
That's why you see that. HCG however isn't used to start your HPTA (natural test system) directly. It used to make your testes start up by tricking them into thinking LH is present and they should blow back up. When you do this it makes it easier for them to start working again. But HCG keeps them big and bouncy for a couple weeks. So you can start using it in the last week of the cycle and your testes will be ready for the real thing by the time you start your HPTA up two weeks post cycle.
I recommend starting it on the day of your last shot for 10 days straight.

Thanks.

 

[Wulfgar]

WulfgarI wish you stop posting that people should use T3 in the PCT.
You know what's worse than a guy who doesn't know anything? I guy who knows a little bit. You keep posting all this crazy stuff, like telling someone not to use Dbol or using T3 while you're off of AS, and because you know a little bit people think they should follow your advice.

Cortisol suppression is done with DHEA and Oxytocin.

Musclehealth, He's better off shooting the HCG daily at a lower dose. 1000iu/day is max. He should use an Aromatase Inhibitor but Arimidex is a poor choice. AIFM or Aromasin is much better.

Was that english?
Ulter your a good bro and I respect you. I am mearly trying to help with protocols that have been effective for myself and others. Just because they are agaisnt "traditional" methodologies doesnt necessarily mean they are incorrect. They work and if people ask me for help I will offer exactly that to the best I can. It is ultimately up to them to follow it or not.
Please, if you are going to refute my information please do so with a logical scientific argument into why my technques are ineffective. Not resort to trying to belittle me saying I am worse than someone with no knowledge.

 

[musclehealth]

Was that english?
Ulter your a good bro and I respect you. I am mearly trying to help with protocols that have been effective for myself and others. Just because they are agaisnt "traditional" methodologies doesnt necessarily mean they are incorrect. They work and if people ask me for help I will offer exactly that to the best I can. It is ultimately up to them to follow it or not.
Please, if you are going to refute my information please do so with a logical scientific argument into why my technques are ineffective. Not resort to trying to belittle me saying I am worse than someone with no knowledge.

Thanks man. You are a great help!!!

 

[musclehealth]

Was that english?
Ulter your a good bro and I respect you. I am mearly trying to help with protocols that have been effective for myself and others. Just because they are agaisnt "traditional" methodologies doesnt necessarily mean they are incorrect. They work and if people ask me for help I will offer exactly that to the best I can. It is ultimately up to them to follow it or not.
Please, if you are going to refute my information please do so with a logical scientific argument into why my technques are ineffective. Not resort to trying to belittle me saying I am worse than someone with no knowledge.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505004

I saw that nolva should not be combined with armidex. True?

 

[Wulfgar]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505004

I saw that nolva should not be combined with armidex. True?

minor effect bro...dont use it with letro. Adex is fine..but as a rule i prefer aromasin. more powerful 3rd gen inhibitor.

 

[Ulter]

Was that english?
Ulter your a good bro and I respect you. I am mearly trying to help with protocols that have been effective for myself and others. Just because they are agaisnt "traditional" methodologies doesnt necessarily mean they are incorrect. They work and if people ask me for help I will offer exactly that to the best I can. It is ultimately up to them to follow it or not.
Please, if you are going to refute my information please do so with a logical scientific argument into why my technques are ineffective. Not resort to trying to belittle me saying I am worse than someone with no knowledge.

Okay I will just confine my posts to telling people why you're wrong. That's what I have done with your posts all year so why stop now. I have been cycling and studing cycling for over twenty years and have no problem posting why your ideas are so wrong. Unfortunately this board does not allow search by more than one user or I would pull up all the posts of yours I have had to correct. We'll just take it from here.

Here's some logic for you. T3 is catabolic by way of what it does to your metabolism. Once you jack up your thyroid with T3 you are going to burn off muscle along with fat. The only thing that will stem that is increased protein synthesis. That's what you get from steroids, increase protein synthesis. When you don't have the steroids present, like during PCT, you will lose that mass you just put on during your cycle. So your advice is for people to use T3 and burn off the muscle they just spent a cycle gaining.

Now you say your methodology is not traditional. Maybe it should be because your methodology is going to cost someone their gains.

Is that English written well enough for you?

T3 should be used for cutting but not without a steroid. End of Story.

 

[Wulfgar]

Okay I will just confine my posts to telling people why you're wrong. That's what I have done with your posts all year so why stop now. I have been cycling and studing cycling for over twenty years and have no problem posting why your ideas are so wrong. Unfortunately this board does not allow search by more than one user or I would pull up all the posts of yours I have had to correct. We'll just take it from here.

Here's some logic for you. T3 is catabolic by way of what it does to your metabolism. Once you jack up your thyroid with T3 you are going to burn off muscle along with fat. The only thing that will stem that is increased protein synthesis. That's what you get from steroids, increase protein synthesis. When you don't have the steroids present, like during PCT, you will lose that mass you just put on during your cycle. So your advice is for people to use T3 and burn off the muscle they just spent a cycle gaining.

Now you say your methodology is not traditional. Maybe it should be because your methodology is going to cost someone their gains.

Is that English written well enough for you?

T3 should be used for cutting but not without a steroid. End of Story.

Bro you are killing me. I not recommending massive. doses of T3. Im saying use enough to keep the metabolism a little higher than where is normally operates during this critical time (50 mcg every 2 days with 2 days off equates to roughly 25 mcg blood plasma level/d) u are saying dont use T3 without steroids present. what? our bodies dont produce natural testosterone? I throught the point of PCT was to bring our natty levels up? If so than our test levels should dictate the amount of our thyroid output. follow me?
i aed some more on the other thread.
and like i said..im not looking to give bad advice to people. Im mearly sharing my finds with everyone with actual things that WORK and have worked for me. I have had great sucess maintaining my muscle mass post cycle using these protocols.

 

[musclehealth]

So...25mcg ED should be fine?

Bro you are killing me. I not recommending massive. doses of T3. Im saying use enough to keep the metabolism a little higher than where is normally operates during this critical time (50 mcg every 2 days with 2 days off equates to roughly 25 mcg blood plasma level/d) u are saying dont use T3 without steroids present. what? our bodies dont produce natural testosterone? I throught the point of PCT was to bring our natty levels up? If so than our test levels should dictate the amount of our thyroid output. follow me?
i aed some more on the other thread.
and like i said..im not looking to give bad advice to people. Im mearly sharing my finds with everyone with actual things that WORK and have worked for me. I have had great sucess maintaining my muscle mass post cycle using these protocols.

 

[Wulfgar]

So...25mcg ED should be fine?

ya man...i think its safe though to do 50 for 2 days then take 2 days off to protect thyroid function

 

[musclehealth]

ya man...i think its safe though to do 50 for 2 days then take 2 days off to protect thyroid function

So you are saying run 50mcg 2 days on 2 days off ? throughout?

 

[Wulfgar]

So you are saying run 50mcg 2 days on 2 days off ? throughout?

yes, take it as long as u are incorporating clen and the ECA stack.