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PASSENGER PROFILING at our AIRPORTS

RyanH

New member
There is great debate now on whether airlines should begin to profile passengers based on his race---being an Arab.

I hope this is not the case. Particularly, since there are many other ways we can profile passengers.....i.e. 20 yr old male, paying cash instead of by credit card, etc.

Further, ABC news reported that an Arab man was shot this morning b/c he was Arab.

I hope this doesn't spin out of control into a war against Arabs. We need to remember our enemies which, as both President Bushs have reminded us are: TERRORISTS AND THOSE COUNTRIES THAT HARBOR THEM.

The Islamic religion in no way endorses murder or suicide. We should all keep this in mind....

Ryan
 
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It's a complete mystery why the hell we don't have a secured door between the cabin and the cockpit.

Further, why not Federal marshals on planes?

Also, as much as I hate to admit this: because we are living in a time we've never lived in before, maybe pilots should be armed with GUNS. (never thought I'd live to endorse gunownership)

:D
 
hate to say this. Yes it maybe a time when they can find folks who don't fit the profile but it will take much money and much time to put this together. I for one still talk to folks from these countries even after what happened. However I will become more aware of those I don't know as we have seen what the ones who did it look like and most of them look the same. We all need to feel safe in our own way so i will study people a lot more closer.
 
there is nothing wrong with racial profiling. i'm sure if you asked the victims families about it, they'd be for it.
 
But why profile....Just as BigPhysics said, they'll get around it by using another nationality to wreck terror on our country?

Terrorists have proven time and time again that unfortunately they usually know how to beat the system.
 
2Thick said:


You must be white...

and proud of it. what, if a specific tactic will make us safer but rub a few people the wrong way, we are supposed to adhere to those peoples feelings? fuck that shit.
 
TheOne said:


and proud of it. what, if a specific tactic will make us safer but rub a few people the wrong way, we are supposed to adhere to those peoples feelings? fuck that shit.

Considering that only .000000000000000000000000000001% of Arabs that fly actually hijack an airplane, it would be a racist tool.

And you being a white male would know absolutely nothing about racism or prejudice, so you would never know what it feels like.
 
2Thick said:


Considering that only .000000000000000000000000000001% of Arabs that fly actually hijack an airplane, it would be a racist tool.

And you being a white male would know absolutely nothing about racism or prejudice, so you would never know what it feels like.

even if it is that small of a percentage, if racial profiling would save lives than i'm all for it.

dont be so prejudice towards whites cuz you assume we havent had to deal with racism or prejudice. that is not a correct assumption at all and that comment shows how much little insight you possess.
 
you are just sadly misinformed. you said that cuz i'm white that i 'know absolutely nothing about racism or prejudice.' you are wrong. that is a pretty stupid statement to make to someone if you dont know anything about them. hence the statement about your lack of insight.
 
TheOne said:
you are just sadly misinformed. you said that cuz i'm white that i 'know absolutely nothing about racism or prejudice.' you are wrong. that is a pretty stupid statement to make to someone if you dont know anything about them. hence the statement about your lack of insight.

You didn't answer my question.
 
News Story in my hometown..im good friends with this man's daughter!

Jim Ross
The Herald Dispatch (Huntington, WV)

Dr. Prathap Chandran made the mistake of asking his Greyhound drivers too many questions. Chandran is a native of India, but he is a US citizen who has been in this country for 32 years. He learned early Friday that he looks enough like a terrorist to justify being jumped by up to 10 police, handcuffed and searched and detained for two hours.

It happened in Charleston after police there had been notified Chandran had been acting suspiciously on his bus trip from Washington, D.C. Chandran, 60, is a cardiologist in Huntington. He had been in Washington for a professional meeting that was canceled after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Tuesday morning.

He had to get home. All flights were grounded. Amtrak was booked solid and there were no rental cars available. So he decided to take Greyhound. Jerry Pauley, deputy chief of the Charleston Police Department said Greyhound called his department and reported Chandran's behavior as suspicious. He carried a bad with him, wouldn't let anyone sit next to him and kept asking the drivers when the bus would get to Charleston so he could get to Yeager Aiport.

Chandran said he was going to Charleston because he had flown out of Yeager Airport to get to Washington. When he got off the bus after 1 a.m. Friday, he asked the driver where the taxis could be found. He needed a taxi to get him to the airport parking area, he said.

The driver pointed him in a direction. Chandran said he started walking that way and immediately surrounded by eight to 10 policemen. Chandran said police threw him to the ground, handcuffed him and pointed their guns at him.

"I kept telling them it's a mistake. I'm a heart doctor, and i'm here to save lives, not to stop them. They wouldn't listen to me. They were shouting," Chandran said.

Chandran said police took him to a room in the bus station, where they questioned him and searched his luggage and books. He told them he is a Hindu, a pacifist, and a strict vegetarian. Two hours later, police let him go, he said.

By then it was 3:30 a.m. and Chandran was afraid to get a taxi, so he asked police to take him to the airport. They did and later escorted him off the hill as far as Interstate 64, he said.

"I dont know if I have an apology or not. They said, 'Doctor, this is the way we do with people suspected of terrorist activities.' I felt it was excessive, but that's what they said," Chandran said.

Chandran said he bears no grudge against Charleston police, "but I don't think I'm going to travel in the immediate future."


Racial profiling is a very tough call RyanH. Not arguing but I know this man and his family and he did not deserve this.
 
RyanH said:
It's a complete mystery why the hell we don't have a secured door between the cabin and the cockpit.


It is not a complete mystery.

On long flights, pilots have to get out sometimes and inspect the planes - look at a mechanism and see how it is responding to instruction from teh co-pilot. Sometimes things get stuck (the rudders and such) and need to be inspected.

Pilots usually disguise this, making it sem like they are walking to the back (so as not to disturb passengers) but on longer flights it happens a lot. Pilots need to get out. Sky marshals are probably a good idea. Maybe we can get El Al to train them.
 
2Thick said:


You didn't answer my question.

just an example but i lived in tokyo for 2 months and was the brunt of racial slurs. i'm sure white males have been at places where they were the minority and were subject to racism. for you to say that white people know nothing with regards to being the brunt of racism is dumb.
 
TheOne said:


just an example but i lived in tokyo for 2 months and was the brunt of racial slurs. i'm sure white males have been at places where they were the minority and were subject to racism. for you to say that white people know nothing with regards to being the brunt of racism is dumb.

Good answer. You managed to name one country where gaijin are not liked and often discriminated against (although I wouldn't expect that so much in Tokyo as I would in the smaller cities that do not have much contact with gaijin)
 
2Thick said:


And you being a white male would know absolutely nothing about racism or prejudice, so you would never know what it feels like.

maybe you are correct regarding them being a country that doesnt like whites but your the one that made the above statement that holds no merit and i thought i should point out it out to you.
 
TheOne - You gotta slow down and think friend. I feel the same way you do on the outer shell of my anger, but that is no way to handle this situation. Timothy McVeigh was white. What do we do now, not rent moving trucks to white guys?
 
we take a hard look at renting trucks to white guys with military backgrounds. ask what the truck is being used for and questions to that extent and get a gut-feeling on the truth of his answers. i hear what your saying but the example is a bit off. since the mcveigh bombings, i would hope that all moving truck companies are cautious to an extent about renting out their equipment.
 
Steps to better safety:

1. Armed guards on planes
2. Armed pilots
3. Armoured cockpit
4. Cameras in the passenger cabin
5. Possibility to release gas into the passenger cabin making everybody unconscious
6. No hand luggage
7. Good guys and reliable passengers allowed to carry a gun (optional)

Airlines, feel free to pick one!
 
Fair enough...I agree that you HAVE to take into consideration the track record of the group of people someone belongs to when trying to determine what their activities will be.

My wife used the Tim McVeigh example on me when I said not to let Middle Eastern people on our flights anymore. We have ONE white guy here and countless Middle Easterners performing terrorist actions, I agree with you for the most part, but i get torn in two when you do see good guys that are middle eastern just trying to live life and be happy like us.
 
if all the hijackers were arab then why not take special notice to arab passengers? its taking political correctness too far.
 
RyanH glad to see your alright. However, since Arabs did this, why would WE NOT profile them?

Please put up the red white and blue. It's the only flag you were born under is'nt?

REVOKE ALL VISA's from the middle east NOW, send them home to see how lucky they were to have lived here at all. Including the Israeli's. No offence, but I have had enough excitement for a life time or two.
 
"Considering that only .000000000000000000000000000001% of Arabs that fly actually hijack an airplane, it would be a racist tool."

Moneybags,

2thick answred your question above.
 
what percentage of 20 year olds hijack a plane? if you are going to profile then you have to use arab as one of the factors because a large percentage of hijackers are arab.
 
MoneyBags said:
what percentage of 20 year olds hijack a plane? if you are going to profile then you have to use arab as one of the factors because a large percentage of hijackers are arab.

Do you really think profiling arabs is the answer to all this?
 
i dont think profiling arabs is the answer to this. however ryan was supporting profiling but just wanted to leave out arab. well if you are going to profile then you have to include arab as a factor. thats all im saying.
 
I keep thinking this issue isn't a racial issue, but an issue on nationalism. Every arab nation is considered to be of caucasian origin. Since they are OF THE SAME RACE AS 75% OF AMERICA, THEY ARE NOT BEING SINGLED OUT FOR THEIR RACE, BUT FOR THEIR NATIONAL ORIGIN. WHICH I CONSIDER FAIR TREATMENT.

THEY WOULD DO IT TO US IF WE HAD DONE THIS TO THEM FIRST, BUT WE AREN'T COWARDS HIDING BEHIND HOSTAGES. THEY ARE.
 
I think special attention should be given to Arab people at the airports.

If I ever get on another plane and there is a suspicious looking Arab on board, I'll just get on another plan.
Not taken a chance on getting hijacked. SHit those fucking arabs are still trying to hijack plans as we speak!!
 
FreakMonster said:
If I ever get on another plane and there is a suspicious looking Arab on board, I'll just get on another plan.
Not taken a chance on getting hijacked. SHit those fucking arabs are still trying to hijack plans as we speak!!

What do you mean by suspicious? How can you tell a hostile arab from a non-hostile one?
 
The police employ racial profiling, and it's pretty effective. I don't agree with it but I agree with the results. Since I'm half iranian I might be a target of profiling, so we'll see how I feel about it when I go flying.

A couple of points:

all this extra security and profiling won't mean jack in a year we forget about it and go back to business as usual. The people we are dealing with are very cunning and very patient, and will wait until we have our guard down.

another reason why we don't have secure cockpits (double doors for example) is that the airline companies claimed it would cost millions in add the extra security and remove seats. I think its pretty easy to second guess their decision now.
 
"Some commentators and so-called experts have been quick to suggest that we will have to give up rights and freedoms in order to achieve greater security against the terrorist threat. They are wrong. The liberties of America's citizens do not facilitate terrorism -- rather it is the liberties we have wrongly allowed to non-citizens. Because so many of us are the heirs of America's immigrant tradition, we have been tempted to lose sight of the common-sense truth that we have the right to maintain and enforce the distinction between those who are citizens and those who are not. We have the right to scrutinize more carefully the access and activities of non-citizens, and to bar from our ports of entry or expel any non-citizens who we believe are involved with or abet the terrorist threat. With fairness, but without apology, we must implement a regime that secures the borders and gateways of the nation." --Alan Keyes
 
Armed, Plainclothed Sky Marshalls with glaser rounds.

Nuff said. Pull your boxcutter, Abdullah... I'll put a crater in your left ass cheek.
 
When anybody OTHER than Arab males starts doing the kind of shit that these fucking sand vipers pull then maybe we can talk about giving everybody the same level of scrutiny....But for now we have to drop the PC act and protect our nation. What about these arabs celebrating here in America as they saw what what happening to New York, in my mind thats treason and I would be for stringing them up by the nutsack...Some things you just do not do, cheering as our people die is one of them....
 
Actually finding non-Arabs will be extermely hard for them. Mercenaries are it the game for cash, not glory, or 7 Virgins when you meet Allah. Suicide missions are for zealots to a cause, not for mercenaries. Mercs will blow up a plane, hijack it(if there is reasonable expectation of success and payment), they will do wet work at the drop of a dime. THEY WILL NOT, HOWEVER TAKE A MISSION WHERE THE CAHNCE OF SERVIVAL IS TOO LOW, THEY ARE IT IT FOR $$$$$$$$$$

I have many Arab friends, but if they are scrutinized more tightly than so be it. Racial profiling is a must in this case. Sorry RyanH, but yet again(as is so often the case your just plain wrong)!
 
fiatconspiracy said:
Yes race profile is a good thing. Whites, blacks, asians, dont blow up planes. Sad fact

Yeah and thank god North Korea (my parents are from south korea) didnt do this...Thats what i think about when I hear about the arab profiling thing...

If North Korea did this, I wouldnt go outside my house and not let anybody in my family go out into the public..regardless that North korea and south korea are complete opposites and enemies I know that it doesnt matter in the eyes of a society with more whites than any other race..just as if japan or china did somethign like this, I'd still be scared cuz I'd be afraid that someone would mistake me for japanese or chinese (since we all look the same:rolleyes: )

anyways, my point is, my dad has been a hard working, US citizen for 30 years in this country has not done one thing wrong in his whole lifetime..He has assimiliated very well and is a very highly respected private business owner in our small redneck town.

And if some eastern asian country had been the terrorists, I would be the first to admit that my dad (regardless of his history in this country) would probably be attacked or harrassed..

and it wouldnt be fair nor right.

That is why I am kinda against racial profiling...

But you make a good point, only arabic people have been known to hijack airplanes and such..so this might be a special case..
 
needleboy said:
Actually finding non-Arabs will be extermely hard for them. Mercenaries are it the game for cash, not glory, or 7 Virgins when you meet Allah. Suicide missions are for zealots to a cause, not for mercenaries. Mercs will blow up a plane, hijack it(if there is reasonable expectation of success and payment), they will do wet work at the drop of a dime. THEY WILL NOT, HOWEVER TAKE A MISSION WHERE THE CAHNCE OF SERVIVAL IS TOO LOW, THEY ARE IT IT FOR $$$$$$$$$$

I have many Arab friends, but if they are scrutinized more tightly than so be it. Racial profiling is a must in this case. Sorry RyanH, but yet again(as is so often the case your just plain wrong)!

You are naive to think that profiling will be effective in deterring terrorists acts. Terrorists will get around profiling by using others to inflict their damage. Profiling would only be a measure that would make others feel good but for no real reason. Again, why not profile based on other factors besides race. Profiling based on race would also raise constitutional equal protection problems, and would probably be held unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court.

Ryan.
 
RyanH said:


You are naive to think that profiling will be effective in deterring terrorists acts. Terrorists will get around profiling by using others to inflict their damage. Profiling would only be a measure that would make others feel good but for no real reason. Again, why not profile based on other factors besides race. Profiling based on race would also raise constitutional equal protection problems, and would probably be held unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court.

Ryan.

Well that's just too fucking bad!!!
Have you seen anyone else besides an Middle Eastern person hijack a plane? I fucking think not!!
 
It seems like some of you are very ignorant about the physical diversity within both the Islamic and Arab world. Arabs, themselves quite diverse, are only one of the many groups that make up the Islamic world (and not all Arabs are Muslim).

There are millions of non-Arab Caucasians who are Muslim. Bosnian Muslim Slavs, Muslim Albanians, Bulgarian Turks, Bulgarian Gagauz, Circassians, Crimean Tatars, Turks from western Turkey, and so on and so forth. These people are indistinguishable from Europeans because they are Europeans (or of very related stock). Fanatics and militants can come from these groups as well.

So, before you start condoning racial profiling, think about this little tidbit. If a blond, blue-eyed Albanian hijacks a plane tomorrow on orders from the Albanian Muslim Brotherhood, who're you going to start profiling next?
 
Stumpy said:
It seems like some of you are very ignorant about the physical diversity within both the Islamic and Arab world. Arabs, themselves quite diverse, are only one of the many groups that make up the Islamic world (and not all Arabs are Muslim).

There are millions of non-Arab Caucasians who are Muslim. Bosnian Muslim Slavs, Muslim Albanians, Bulgarian Turks, Bulgarian Gagauz, Circassians, Crimean Tatars, Turks from western Turkey, and so on and so forth. These people are indistinguishable from Europeans because they are Europeans (or of very related stock). Fanatics and militants can come from these groups as well.

So, before you start condoning racial profiling, think about this little tidbit. If a blond, blue-eyed Albanian hijacks a plane tomorrow on orders from the Albanian Muslim Brotherhood, who're you going to start profiling next?

Like I said before, Can you prove to me that a Caucasian looking man has ever hijacked a plane? I've never seen one.
 
FreakMonster said:
Like I said before, Can you prove to me that a Caucasian looking man has ever hijacked a plane? I've never seen one.

You've never heard of the Italian Red Brigades and the German Baader-Meinhof Gang? Both groups hijacked planes back in the '70s.
 
FreakMonster said:


Well that's just too fucking bad!!!
Have you seen anyone else besides an Middle Eastern person hijack a plane? I fucking think not!!

There is a Constitution which we all live under.
If the Supreme Court says that profiling is unconstitutional, then it's unconstitutional, unless Congress amends the Constitutional.

Treating Arabs differently from other races might possibly violate the equal protection clause.

Ryan.
 
Ryan it is you who is naive. You and your touch feely let's make everyone love and take care of each other bullshit mindset has NO FUCKING IDEA how this shit works. THEY CAN'T GET OTHERS TO DO THIS SHIT, BECAUSE AS I SAID BEFORE, PAID MERCENARIES DON'T DO SUICIDE MISSIONS. TRUST ME I HAVE KNOWN SOME.

Het a merc to blow a building?? sure! Want someone put down??-no problem!! But it's for MONEY!!!!!

Fanatics and zealots do suicide missions.

What is your experience in counter terrorism?? Maybe you think this will all go away with a group hug - it will not. Racial profiling works- end of story. Are some innocent people inconvenienced- YES!!! Sorry. But if would rather have five thousand people die because you don't want to be racially insensative your even more moronic than you appear.

It is people like you, who first try to take away my right for self protection( God knows you'd like my guns made illegal) but then you also want to make it impossible for law enforcement to protect people as well. Be careful what you ask for RyanH, you may get it. And when you do, and you help create a paradise for thugs and murders to run wild over a defenseless society- I only hope that you become prey for some preditor, and think of all your pathetic rhetoric as your life spills from you, into a warm red puddle!!
 
RyanH said:
It's a complete mystery why the hell we don't have a secured door between the cabin and the cockpit.


OK Ryan H I just hijacked this plane...............you are the pilot. If you don't come out from behind that secured door I will begin executing passengers-one every 5 minutes.

What would YOU do?? Keep in mind that before last tuesday no one ever had an inkling that a terrorist would play Kamikaze with an airliner, so most likely if faced with that threat any pilot would have reliquished the controls.
You idea about armed air marshals is the real solution here.
 
i think that people just need to be more aware of circumsatnces and surroundings. No matter if you support it or not racial profilling will be done, and has already been done. I think that the police need to be courteous and polite. One must understand that this is done in irder to protect many innocent people.
 
As soon as we Secure the Airplanes, Terrorists will find another
unSecured method to kill Americans.

I agree with the idea of Controlling(Not closing) our borders to at least make it more difficult to gain access to means of mass destruction here inside our borders.
Secondly, we must break up the support infrastructure that allows terrorists to easilly get into the US illegally.

Just like a Robber... If he wants to bad enough, he can break into any house no matter how many locks and alarms are present.
We just have to make it very difficult to break into ours, so maybe they will go down the street...
 
With your faulty logic, NeedleBoy, the government would be able to do WHATEVER it feels like to prevent terrorism.

Thus, why not let the goverment search our homes, search our cars, listen to all of our phone conversation, and racial profile Arabs. You see how silly your argument sounds....

The fact of that matter is that our laws are a system of balances, the goverment is limited by what it can do because of rights given to us by our Constitutional founders. The goverment is restrained by our individual rights, and our individual rights can be restrained by our government, to a limited extent. The goverment does not have carte blanche to roll over our liberties..

That's not going away no matter how much you wish to give up your right to privacy. Some of us will fight for ours...

If racial profiling works so well, then why hasn't many police departments reduced crime using profiling since it's common knowledge that many police depts practice racial profiling?

Try again. You've shown your true colors, as always with your statment that you "hope I become victim to a predator..."

Your hiding your racist dispositions in scare tactics. Old trick.

Ryan.
 
2Thick said:


Considering that only .000000000000000000000000000001% of Arabs that fly actually hijack an airplane, it would be a racist tool.

And you being a white male would know absolutely nothing about racism or prejudice, so you would never know what it feels like.

2thick you are ignorant! Take some time and read about our history before spewing rhetoric bullshit. Read on if you want to learn one little blurb about our past.

In the second half of the fourteenth century the english kingdom had to pay a high tribute to the pope, which means that finally the peasants, the simple peasants really had to work and pay for the pope. But the lords also had an interest in getting rid of this burden, because they had to pass part of the money they had pressed out of the peasants to someone else. An Oxford professor, John Wyclif(1324-1384), said clearly what everybody thought. In 1360, Wyclif declared that the first Christians had lived in devote poverty. He than attacked the priests of the catholic church because of their rich life, concluding, that everybody within the church should live as modestly as the first Christians.
Because of the hundred years war most of the lords were occupied robbing Frances treasures (the victory of Crecy in Northern France literally changed the whole life in England). But then the war turned in favor of the french army and in 1374 a truce was concluded and the english lords had to satisfy their needs by increasing the pressure on their own population, the workers and peasants in England. By doing so they aggravated a situation of discontent. The Black Death had ravaged England in 1348/49 and nearly half of the population had died with the consequence that working people were rare and wages high. The Government issued laws aiming to reduce wages at their level before the plague and the lords, unsuccessful in the war, applied their privileges strictly. Especially the crown was in need of money to continue the war against France. The unpopular levy of 1377, a proportionate poll tax on every adult, was followed by the graduated tax on moveable property of 1379, the latter a failure that resulted in the replacement of the Chancellor, Richard Scrope. In 1380, Parliament allowed the king, through his new Chancellor, Simon Sudbury, Archbishop of Canterbury, to assess a flat tax of three groats (one shilling) on every man and woman over the age of fifteen. This was more as the lower classes could pay, but tax collectors enforced the application, often diverting the result to their personal fortune: "The kyng therof had smalle." The rallying-point for the rebellion was the poll tax of 1380-81, a tax that, as an anonymous poet said, "has tenet us alle." This was the third poll tax, and it was enforced by commissions of inquiry, which investigated whether all persons were complying with the tax.

The situation of the peasants became insupportable and the english peasants uprising began. It had been prepared and guided mainly by the preachers John Ball and Jack Straw, whereas the peasants in Kent were led by Wat Tyler.........
 
Hello?! Did it cross anyone's mind that a bit of bleach and some blue contacts could change a person's appearance quick? Anyone could appear very European with these techniques.

I agree, "hired guns" on all flights! I fear this is the only answer!
 
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