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I'd like to here people's experiences with an Oxandrolone only cycle in a "bulking" phase. The majority of people including myself use it in a hypocaloric state and usually notice some muscle gain, so I'm curious what kind of gains people have had when actually trying to gain mass. How many of you have attempted an Ox cycle with 1000+ calories over your BMR and what kind of results did you get?
We know Ox increseases protein synthesis efficiency which is why it's able to build muscle on a restricted calorie diet, especially with high protein intake. What I'm really interested in is how much this efficiency would work when given an ample amount of calories, as I said at least 1000+ over BMR.
When an injectable cycle is planned everyone knows that you have to up your caloric intake to support the gains. The same should be true with an oral cycle like Ox, but I see very little evidence that people actually attempt it. As I mentioned Ox is usually taken during a cutting phase or at most a slightly elevated caloric intake.
The reason I bring this up is this. We always hear that Ox can put on 10 pounds of retainable LBM during a cycle, but compared to the glory stories of 40 pound LBM gains on a test cycle this doesn't sound as exciting. Think about it though, most of us will never be able to put 100 pounds of extra muscle on our frame in our lifttime and if people were truly gaining 30-40 pounds of LBM during cycles they'd be at there genetic limit in 3-4 cycles and that'd be it. However how many times do we here about people starting there 8th-9th cycle yet don't seem to be anywhere near where they should be?
My guess is that most of these supposed gains are water and fat which is lost after the cycle. Even IF a good portion of it is muscle I know some is lost due to improper post cycle planning. So if a steroid newbie was to somehow gain 30 pounds on an 8 week cycle of test, after water is lost, fat is considered and the post cycle crash occurs how much is that person truly left with? 15-20 lbs if he's lucky? And all that while risking hair loss, acne, gyno and never knowing how much gains will be kept?
Which brings me to my point. Oxandrolone cycles usually result in mild gains, but because there is no huge crash or water gain those gains are usually kept. Also remember that these "8 week" long ester Test cycles are really 11 week cycles because of the blood levels being elevated for 2-3 weeks after your last shot.
So... what if someone were to do an Oxandrolone only cycle employing the same eating techniques as if you were on a heavy androgen cycle and ran it for 11 weeks? With 1000+ calorie surplus per day which equates to 7000 a week, this would result in a theoretical 2 pound per week gain for 11 weeks. Of course it never works out this perfectly, but the calorie surplus is there to support as much muscle gain as the Ox is creating. So even if we guesstimate lower I would think a 15 pound solid LBM gain is possible. Since the crash is known to be much less drastic than a heavy androgenic cycle there is less risk of muscle loss, especially if clomid, Clen and other precautions are taken just as if it were a heavy androgen cycle.
All of this without the worry of massive side effects and ancillary drugs. Because Ox is so mild you most likely wouldn't have to worry about acne, estrogen related side effects, hair loss, etc.. and thus have no worry about ancillary drugs. Ox is expensive but if you didn't have to buy all of these extra compounds that are a must on a Test cycle, it would probably come out cheaper.
Forgive me for rambling but I've been giving this a lot of thought lately. My AS experience thus far has been 2 cutting cycles, both employing Ox. I have had nothing but awesome results from these cycles and have been in a fairly moderate caloric deficit. I am finally to start my first official "bulking" cycle this fall and am currently considering my options. I had originally planned a simple 500mg a week test cycle with Ox thrown in for good measure. However after thinking about it I'd really like to attempt a simple Ox cycle for my first bulking cycle just to see what would happen. If I truely could gain 15 lbs of LBM with a lot less risk of side effects then to me this would be superior in every regards to a heavy androgen cycle. I am not a greedy person and if I can get 2/3 or even 3/4 of the results with less than half the side effects then I'm down for it. I'm in no rush, I could do 3 Ox bulking cycles in a year and if I was able to put on 10 pounds each time that's still a LOT of LBM for 1 year. Not to mention that Ox has a positive effect on fat stores and it probably wouldn't lead to as much fat gain as androgen cycles would.
I know this is all theoretical but I was wondering what others may have attempted this and what their results were. My "theoretical" cycle would consist of nothing more than 40mg of Ox for 8-10 weeks(taken with grapefruit juice) combined with creatine, 12.5mcg of T3 for better nutrient partitioning, liquidex to ensure any fat storage is not estrogenic in nature and enough calories to support the growth I want. I would come off with clomid, continue running the liquidex for a week or 2 and even add some clen for the anti-catabolic properties.
Keep in mind a 10-15lb gain is roughly an inch on your arm depending on how big you already are and that's not bad for such a short cycle with very little sides.
I'd appreciate any thoughts or experiences on this matter.
We know Ox increseases protein synthesis efficiency which is why it's able to build muscle on a restricted calorie diet, especially with high protein intake. What I'm really interested in is how much this efficiency would work when given an ample amount of calories, as I said at least 1000+ over BMR.
When an injectable cycle is planned everyone knows that you have to up your caloric intake to support the gains. The same should be true with an oral cycle like Ox, but I see very little evidence that people actually attempt it. As I mentioned Ox is usually taken during a cutting phase or at most a slightly elevated caloric intake.
The reason I bring this up is this. We always hear that Ox can put on 10 pounds of retainable LBM during a cycle, but compared to the glory stories of 40 pound LBM gains on a test cycle this doesn't sound as exciting. Think about it though, most of us will never be able to put 100 pounds of extra muscle on our frame in our lifttime and if people were truly gaining 30-40 pounds of LBM during cycles they'd be at there genetic limit in 3-4 cycles and that'd be it. However how many times do we here about people starting there 8th-9th cycle yet don't seem to be anywhere near where they should be?
My guess is that most of these supposed gains are water and fat which is lost after the cycle. Even IF a good portion of it is muscle I know some is lost due to improper post cycle planning. So if a steroid newbie was to somehow gain 30 pounds on an 8 week cycle of test, after water is lost, fat is considered and the post cycle crash occurs how much is that person truly left with? 15-20 lbs if he's lucky? And all that while risking hair loss, acne, gyno and never knowing how much gains will be kept?
Which brings me to my point. Oxandrolone cycles usually result in mild gains, but because there is no huge crash or water gain those gains are usually kept. Also remember that these "8 week" long ester Test cycles are really 11 week cycles because of the blood levels being elevated for 2-3 weeks after your last shot.
So... what if someone were to do an Oxandrolone only cycle employing the same eating techniques as if you were on a heavy androgen cycle and ran it for 11 weeks? With 1000+ calorie surplus per day which equates to 7000 a week, this would result in a theoretical 2 pound per week gain for 11 weeks. Of course it never works out this perfectly, but the calorie surplus is there to support as much muscle gain as the Ox is creating. So even if we guesstimate lower I would think a 15 pound solid LBM gain is possible. Since the crash is known to be much less drastic than a heavy androgenic cycle there is less risk of muscle loss, especially if clomid, Clen and other precautions are taken just as if it were a heavy androgen cycle.
All of this without the worry of massive side effects and ancillary drugs. Because Ox is so mild you most likely wouldn't have to worry about acne, estrogen related side effects, hair loss, etc.. and thus have no worry about ancillary drugs. Ox is expensive but if you didn't have to buy all of these extra compounds that are a must on a Test cycle, it would probably come out cheaper.
Forgive me for rambling but I've been giving this a lot of thought lately. My AS experience thus far has been 2 cutting cycles, both employing Ox. I have had nothing but awesome results from these cycles and have been in a fairly moderate caloric deficit. I am finally to start my first official "bulking" cycle this fall and am currently considering my options. I had originally planned a simple 500mg a week test cycle with Ox thrown in for good measure. However after thinking about it I'd really like to attempt a simple Ox cycle for my first bulking cycle just to see what would happen. If I truely could gain 15 lbs of LBM with a lot less risk of side effects then to me this would be superior in every regards to a heavy androgen cycle. I am not a greedy person and if I can get 2/3 or even 3/4 of the results with less than half the side effects then I'm down for it. I'm in no rush, I could do 3 Ox bulking cycles in a year and if I was able to put on 10 pounds each time that's still a LOT of LBM for 1 year. Not to mention that Ox has a positive effect on fat stores and it probably wouldn't lead to as much fat gain as androgen cycles would.
I know this is all theoretical but I was wondering what others may have attempted this and what their results were. My "theoretical" cycle would consist of nothing more than 40mg of Ox for 8-10 weeks(taken with grapefruit juice) combined with creatine, 12.5mcg of T3 for better nutrient partitioning, liquidex to ensure any fat storage is not estrogenic in nature and enough calories to support the growth I want. I would come off with clomid, continue running the liquidex for a week or 2 and even add some clen for the anti-catabolic properties.
Keep in mind a 10-15lb gain is roughly an inch on your arm depending on how big you already are and that's not bad for such a short cycle with very little sides.
I'd appreciate any thoughts or experiences on this matter.
