OUCH!......I need to go to the DOCTOR..

[RyanH]

But, I can't without calling my HMO to get approval. The appointed President has now vowed to veto THE PATIENT'S BILL of RIGHTS, which would allow all Americans, young and old, to sue their HMO's.

The Appointed President said in the news that he's "worried about the number of suits" that would result as a consequence of the bill. (Although in states that have already passed HMO reform legislation, the number of lawsuits have actually went down).

Further, the APPOINTED PRESIDENT, said that he wants the independent review committee that would review claims before they could be sued upon----to be appointed by the insurance companies themselves. He would also cap damages to a mere 500,000 (Shit, what if I lose a body part), and would deny one the right to sue in state court.

Great to have a Pro-Insurance company Appointed President isn't it?

 

[danielson]

HMO = house medical officer

appointed president = who ?



i do think a review body for medical claims is good. doctors do make mistakes and its unfair on the doctor to have his career on the line on a patients whim....if he was neglegent then sue his ass, but if he had 2 choices and he made the wrong one, i think its for medicaslly trained independant proffesionals to decide whether he was neglegent or not, as opposed to a judge who may know nothing. but this is just my opinion

 

[RyanH]

HMOs=insurance companies and their lobby

Appointed President: President G.W. Bush II.

 

[smallmovesal]

one reason i love my country, even though they're messing with our medicare...

 

[danielson]

im sorry years of whacking off have destroyed what few brain cells i have, so can u explain this in english to me

Dubya is stopping abil that would stop patients suing there lawyers....damn, im getting really stupid, what i said sounds stupid but its all i understand from what u typed. explain as im interested in his stuff.

 

[BO-CEPHUS]

Ryan, you attempt at using emotion to get support for your agenda is quite pathetic.

I could maybe go along with the bill if the people could not sue their employers. It would be alright to sue your HMO if necessary. However, this will be taken advantage of by the usual losers looking for free money.

Look for many companies to drop employee healthcare. Where are you going to turn than, maybe Hillary?

Small, yea and your taxes are well worth it, right? Wonder why many cannadians cannot even get a simple surgery and many with cancer are now coming to the US for treatment?

 

[RyanH]

Ryan, you attempt at using emotion to get support for your agenda is quite pathetic.

However, this will be taken advantage of by the usual losers looking for free money.

Some states have already enacted HMO reform legislation, and those states have seen a drop in the number of suits brought by plaintiffs.

It's all about ACCOUNTABILITY-----Insurance companies should be held accountable to their clients...

 

[BackDoc]

First hand knowledge, let me throw in my 2 cents worth: it's not every doctor's dream to get involved with an HMO. However, they have exclusivity for different companies and workers. What this means to the average self-employed physician is that if an industry or company nearby with an employee base of 5,000 workers is in need of his or her specialty, then it would be financially feasible for them to try and become a provider under that plan. After all, getting paid by an HMO is easier than hoping a patient's check doesn't bounce. Although it would be nice to say that all doctors are of equal skill and caliber, that is simply not the case. Even doctors who are the only ones in their area to be an in-network provider were not always chosen for their skill and reputation. This is the flat out truth.

No one is putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to join an HMO. Most companies and organizations allow for a choice between separate plans of HMO or PPO, but of course they all do not. So you can either accept it or decline it and pay out of pocket and/or have a separate health insurance policy. You can even have both, but don't expect them to forget about subrogation clause! If your company or organization does not allow you to choose any other type of plan, then you might consider legal action in the first place. This is America and we all have rights. Employers who normally pay for healthcare should go with plans that have only top quality providers in their network. This can be determined at such time as when the HMO paperwork is first examined. Go to the provider directory and find the doctors you would likely go to. Select a few, maybe 10 and then go to any number of places on the web that check doctor credentials and any such involvement in litigation. This will be the first step in determining the value of your HMO.

The fact is that HMO's are necessary evils. They were created exactly with the same thing in mind as was insurance companies...making money. We can hold them liable for allowing us to go to doctors who make mistakes, which is sadly sometimes just bad and blind luck, or we can hold the doctors themselves liable. If you do one, then you must accept the HMO terms...to do the other you must pay your own out of pocket expenses and choose the provider based on your personal experience.

There is no guarantee either way.

I can appreciate what GWB is doing to reduce litigation expenses...but it really ticks me off that now there is further difficulty in holding the red tape makers liable for error. Especially when people are still able to bring class action suits against big tobacco companies for "selling them harmful and addictive substances". Why pick on medical failiures and victims and yet allow addicts to sue their dealers? What is frivilous about wanting the law to protect those who are already victims of circumstance?

 

[Warik]

Further, the APPOINTED PRESIDENT, said that he wants the independent review committee that would review claims before they could be sued upon----to be appointed by the insurance companies themselves. He would also cap damages to a mere 500,000

Absolutely *WRONG*. MORE leftist propoganda! The "APPOINTED PRESIDENT" (APPOINTED BY THE VOTES OF THE CITZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) wants to cap EXTRA damages at $500,000. Meaning that you WOULD be able to sue for the cost of your damages, PLUS an additional $500,000. That's more than enough. Lefists, on the other hand, want to cap it at something absurd like $5,000,000. Imagine, someone gets diarhea or something because of poor health care and they try to sue for $5,000,000.

Of course, RyanH prefers government controlled healthcare so my argument is meaningless I'm sure.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

No response? So ez. Your hopes and dreams of socialized healthcare will never come true.

You realize that under socialized healthcare, it would actually be a CRIME to go to a PRIVATE DOCTOR? Imagine that! Going to prison for being concerned about your health!

Why are you so concerned with having to be able to sue your HMO? Just get a private doctor. I'm sure you can afford it. Why would you want to be stuck in the worst HMO - the Federal Government - and be a criminal for making an individual choice?

Individual choice? Lol... that's so... free. There's a civilization for you, RyanH, it's called "The Borg Collective."

-Warik

 

[plifter]

HMO's can be a pain in the ass but they are much more cost effective. My coverage only costs me $12 per month. My primary physician ordered some x-rays for me recently. Guess how much I paid for these x-rays. Nothing! They were covered 100% by my HMO because my primary physician said the x-rays were necessary. I only have to pay $10 for a Dr. visit. I can get a 90 day supply of my prescriptions for only $15.
I had the option of choosing another insurance carrier that was not a managed care company and the costs were unreal. The monthly rate was over $100 month compared to the $12 HMO. Plus they had a $500 deductible and a 20% copay on everything. With this plan if I break an arm and have a $10,000 surgery procedure I would still have to pay $2000 out of pocket. Under my current plan I would only pay $200.

 

[RyanH]

No response? So ez. Your hopes and dreams of socialized healthcare will never come true.

You realize that under socialized healthcare, it would actually be a CRIME to go to a PRIVATE DOCTOR? Imagine that! Going to prison for being concerned about your health!

Why are you so concerned with having to be able to sue your HMO? Just get a private doctor. I'm sure you can afford it. Why would you want to be stuck in the worst HMO - the Federal Government - and be a criminal for making an individual choice?

Individual choice? Lol... that's so... free. There's a civilization for you, RyanH, it's called "The Borg Collective."

-Warik

When I lived in New York at just the age of 25, I paid over 200.00 a month for healthcare coverage through an HMO plan. Now that I live in Atlanta, I pay 100.00 a month. If I choose a plan that is "out of network" I would have a 20% deductable. Imagine if I had cancer, AIDS, or some terminal illness, how would I pay my expenses with such a large deductable?

Further, to go to any sort of specialists most of us have to go through a general practitioner to do so----even for simple matters such as going to the Dermatologist. And, if the HMO wants to refuse to pay a claim---guess what? They can do so without any real repercussions.

This bill is about accountability. We all have the right to get what we pay for. If I pay money to an HMO, my money should not be taken for granted----HMO reform would ensure that HMO's think twice before stepping on the backs of the average hardworking American.

Your defense of the insurance industry is AMAZING WARIK. Quality healthcare is not about getting a free ride, its about getting what you paid for. Thus far, many Americans are not getting what they pay for.

Of course, all this ignores the millions of Americans without healthcoverage or the children who lack any sort of coverage. But, then the rich got their tax break---thats all that matters---right Warik?

 

[Warik]

Quality healthcare is not about getting a free ride, its about getting what you paid for.

No offense to plifter, but he says he pays $12 a month for coverage. Is he getting what he pays for? No. Imagine if all Americans paid $12 a month for healthcare. You think that'd be enough for everyone to get x-rays, 90 day supplies of prescriptions, and fixing a broken arm for dirt cheap? LOL

Someone has to pick up the tab. Guess who? The evil rich people paying for all the ingrates in the US who hate them.

But, then the rich got their tax break---thats all that matters---right Warik?

Is the fact that they won't be paying for everything (as much) for the next 10 or so years before all tax brackets are reverted to present day status (oh you didn't know?) the only reason you're upset about the tax cut? How funny. I thought you'd be upset because it was somehow unfairly in favor of the rich.

It's such a shame that Mr. Smith earning minimum wage at a fast food restaurant (probably the guy who "served" me this morning!) doesn't get a tax cut like the evil rich people! Such a shame he probably doesn't pay taxes to begin with either.

-Warik

 

[plifter]

Warik, to be fair my employer pays a good portion for me. I'm just saying that when I compared the non HMO plan to the HMO plan, the HMO was the much better deal. The only negative thing is that I have to be referred to a specialist and can only see the Drs. that are approved by the HMO. In my case the HMO made more sense financially.

 

[Milhouse]

Well I can tell you up here in Canada where we have Public Health Care that the system here is fucked and rife with abuse by both patients and health care professionals.

Up here to all the Lefties scream about private health care as a threat to the poor etc and that the system should remain public and accessed by all.

Now here's the funny part. Since I was 16 I have paid for my own dental, eye exams and other treatments not deemed "medical" by the system. And for my business we have a full medical plan. Why? Because the public/social system only covers so much yet people pay so much into it.

That aside I have been known to give people shit here who complain when they have to wait for something medically. They go " we pay for this thru our taxes" I say oh really? Well my grandfather went in for a triple bypass 4 years ago, which I assume would have cost 100's of thousands of dollars to pay if it came out of his pocket. My point being that he and to my knowledge most Canadians do not even contribute in taxes what it costs for a heart operation like that.

I am for a system that will be there poor/low income people but I would honestly prefer a system like you have in the states with insurance. This way there is more liability and people won't show up to the emergency room like they do up here when they have the flu because they would have to pay the $10.

The only other probelem we have in Canada with our system is that there are tons of new immigrants who come here every year sick and healthy alike. While I do not have a problem with immigration, I do feel giving them a free pass to the health care system without them contributing one penny to the system is wrong and is causing financial problems within the system. They should have to buy some kind of insurance in the interim for the first couple years.That and when I see some sick lady on tv here complaining about our healthcare yet she just arrived in the country a year ago and in her old country would have been left to die in the streets makes me kind of pissd off.

 

[rudedawg]

When I lived in New York at just the age of 25, I paid over 200.00 a month for healthcare coverage through an HMO plan. Now that I live in Atlanta, I pay 100.00 a month. If I choose a plan that is "out of network" I would have a 20% deductable. Imagine if I had cancer, AIDS, or some terminal illness, how would I pay my expenses with such a large deductable?

Further, to go to any sort of specialists most of us have to go through a general practitioner to do so----even for simple matters such as going to the Dermatologist. And, if the HMO wants to refuse to pay a claim---guess what? They can do so without any real repercussions.

This bill is about accountability. We all have the right to get what we pay for. If I pay money to an HMO, my money should not be taken for granted----HMO reform would ensure that HMO's think twice before stepping on the backs of the average hardworking American.

Your defense of the insurance industry is AMAZING WARIK. Quality healthcare is not about getting a free ride, its about getting what you paid for. Thus far, many Americans are not getting what they pay for.

Of course, all this ignores the millions of Americans without healthcoverage or the children who lack any sort of coverage. But, then the rich got their tax break---thats all that matters---right Warik?

Numbber 1) If you have a major hospital bill your losses will be capped at a predetermined amount....... Read your contract. You are so knowledgable I know you know this or you are simply leaving this info out to over dramatize this subject like you do everything else.

Number 2) If you go to a specialist you are going to be referred to one from your PCP right? Then he for sure is going to be in the Provider Directory. If he is not then that is YOUR fault for not making sure he was.

Number 3) A good portion of people enrolled in HMO's pay very little out of their pocket for their insurance. They get most of it subsidized from their employers and if you use it like my family does we take it pretax along with health care reimbursement and day care reimburesement.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

But, then the rich got their tax break---thats all that matters---right Warik?

Income tax levels were "lowered" to 33% for the top bracket? Is 33% anything to celebrate? That means if you are in that bracket, you work the first four months of the year for others.

Hardly a break.

 

[rudedawg]

HMO's can be a pain in the ass but they are much more cost effective. My coverage only costs me $12 per month. My primary physician ordered some x-rays for me recently. Guess how much I paid for these x-rays. Nothing! They were covered 100% by my HMO because my primary physician said the x-rays were necessary. I only have to pay $10 for a Dr. visit. I can get a 90 day supply of my prescriptions for only $15.
I had the option of choosing another insurance carrier that was not a managed care company and the costs were unreal. The monthly rate was over $100 month compared to the $12 HMO. Plus they had a $500 deductible and a 20% copay on everything. With this plan if I break an arm and have a $10,000 surgery procedure I would still have to pay $2000 out of pocket. Under my current plan I would only pay $200.

That is why the HMO's are raising premiums right there. They can't continually give away x-rays, labs, etc...... and a $10 Dr. Visit either. It costs a certain company I market $100 in admin fees for every dr visit claim they process! Figure it out....too much money going out not enough coming in. In the AZ their were only 5 HMO's that made money in 2000. The biggedst loser was United Health Care.....they lost $35 million.

The RX costs for insurance carriers is going through the roof too.....thats why you will see higher co-pays now and the 3 tiered drug plans. It costs the insurance company $78/mo for Claritin, yet they "give" it away for a $15 co-pay. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are losing in that battle. Healthcare cost on the US are now at $1.2 TRILLION and will be $2 Trillion by the year 2008.

The technology we have now alone drives up costs and usage......35 years ago having a lung or liver transplant was a dream.......today they are both done frequently for about $250K...bone marrow transplant???? sure $232K

Drug costs, technology, higher provider fees, decreased gov't contributions to Medicare, State and Federal mandates, and increased usage........it is all taking its toll on healthcare in the USA.

 

[RyanH]

That is why the HMO's are raising premiums right there. They can't continually give away x-rays, labs, etc...... and a $10 Dr. Visit either. It costs a certain company I market $100 in admin fees for every dr visit claim they process! Figure it out....too much money going out not enough coming in. In the AZ their were only 5 HMO's that made money in 2000. The biggedst loser was United Health Care.....they lost $35 million.

Drug costs, technology, higher provider fees, decreased gov't contributions to Medicare, State and Federal mandates, and increased usage........it is all taking its toll on healthcare in the USA.

Have you looked at the profits for major insurance companies. They are outrageous. So I'm crying, like most Americans, over what the insurance companies must be going through. Two of my Doctors, and the Doctors in my family complain about the abuse by the insurance industry and lobby on hardworking Americans.

Insurance companies still deny coverage to millions of Americans or either shortchange them of their rights to quality healthcare. Or, they price gouge them out of being able to afford quality medical coverage.

Further, many citizens in Canada do not share the views of Milhouse.......

Shouldn't we all be entitled to the same quality of healthcare? Again, its all about fairness and ACCOUNTABILITY.....Let insurance companies make their profits but not at the expense of all of us......

 

[Warik]

Again, its all about fairness and ACCOUNTABILITY.....

So accountability is good when it comes to healthcare, but it's bad when it comes to government education? PUBLIC SCHOOLING IS CHILD ABUSE.

-Warik

 

[RyanH]

So accountability is good when it comes to healthcare, but it's bad when it comes to government education? PUBLIC SCHOOLING IS CHILD ABUSE.

-Warik

Public schools is another issue into itself, but we both know, don't we, that Republicans have launched a vicious attack on hardworking teachers across this country?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Ryan,

Under previous administrations, teachers were paid precisely JACK SHIT.

(The only way to avoid this is to teach on Long Island, where almost 20% earn over 100K)

Under the current administration, teachers still collect almost exactly JACK SHIT, with the Long Island exception still applicable.

No Republican attack here brother.

Sometimes you make good points. Often you are one of those people who looks to solve all the world's problems because you don't really have many of your own.

 

[rudedawg]

Have you looked at the profits for major insurance companies. They are outrageous. So I'm crying, like most Americans, over what the insurance companies must be going through. Two of my Doctors, and the Doctors in my family complain about the abuse by the insurance industry and lobby on hardworking Americans.

Insurance companies still deny coverage to millions of Americans or either shortchange them of their rights to quality healthcare. Or, they price gouge them out of being able to afford quality medical coverage.

Further, many citizens in Canada do not share the views of Milhouse.......

Shouldn't we all be entitled to the same quality of healthcare? Again, its all about fairness and ACCOUNTABILITY.....Let insurance companies make their profits but not at the expense of all of us......

Ummmmmmmmmmmm yes I have looked at the profits of HEALTH insurance companies. It is part of my job....now what do you think is outrageous? What do you think a profit margin should be RyanH??????

Please do tell........ or do you think they should be in it for charity? Should I have to try to get a client to buy XYZ policy, push it through underwriting, service the policy holder, have mail costs, office costs, etc..... for free?

You might want to actually look up the profit margins of HEALTH insurance companies. Many many insurance companies out there but make sure you look at the numbers of just their health insurance business.

Like I said in a previous post ....in the state of Arizona alone.....
United healthCare LOST $35 million
HealthNet lost $24.9 Million
Aetna lost $13.9 million
Mayo Health lost $3.3 million

You might want to do some more research before you talkk about how much money these big insurance companies are making. BTW......what do you think happens to premiums if people can sue friviously?

 

[Warik]

.... attack on hardworking teachers across this country?

Hard-working? I've been a student for 13 years. It's a SHAME that I only need ONE hand to count the teachers I've had that were worth a damn. The rest are overpaid.

My only hope is that I will be successful enough to retire before my future son is old enough so that I can home school him and save him from abusive public education.

Nothing can prepare the world for the intellectual, political, financial - you name it - mastermind who will emerge from that endeavour. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

-Warik

 

[Milhouse]

Of course Ryan many people in Canada do not share my view, but at the same time alot do share my view.Even though Canada is a free country, frankly lots of people here don't say whats on their minds publicly because if it's anything that doesn't benefit the ones who sit at home all day or are the low end of the tax paying pole we get branded greedy and heartless, both of which I am proud to be.

Besides that the only people that get heard in Canada are the whiny left. The people who in the middle or lean right politically are too busy busting their asses and working to do something with their lives to spend all day protesting on Parliament Hill.

 

[runner]

matt said:

Income tax levels were "lowered" to 33% for the top bracket? Is 33% anything to celebrate? That means if you are in that bracket, you work the first four months of the year for others.

don't forget state income tax, property taxes, sales taxes, etc.

and my liberal professors used to tell me americans were "undertaxed".....

 

[L.A.X]

Quality healthcare is not about getting a free ride, its about getting what you paid for.

This is True...I paid $10 last week at my doctor (HMO) and all he did was stick his finger up my ass....He didn't even give me a reacharound or even any tissue to wipe up all that vaseoline!!! So I'll I was left with was a faster walking pace from my lubed up de-virginated ass!!!

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Runner said:

don't forget state income tax, property taxes, sales taxes, etc.

and my liberal professors used to tell me americans were "undertaxed".....

Professors: a nicely shaped pre-packaging for heaps of bullshit, developed through years of rigorously studying the esoteric, coupled with a dearth of real-world experience.

Add in taxes on property, phone and cable, gasoline, and sales taxes, and for some, the tax rate exceeds 60% of income.

 

[RyanH]

@LAX

And Ryan, it's about damn time somebody is holding teachers acountable to a certain standard of teaching. Yes it's a shame for the teachers union, their good fuck buddy Bill ain't around anymore.............awwwwwwwwwwww, poooorrrrrr bbaaaabbiiiiisssss!!!

I agree that teachers should be held accountable. But in exchange for better performance, pay should be increased. Teachers have the potential to do more for our society than anyone----its time we recognize that.

 

[BackDoc]

Successful efforts at teaching must also be bolstered by proper upbringing and the parents in general. It's easy to say it's the teacher's faults why Johnny can't read as well as Mary, however it's a little more personal when the fact is that there is no accountability for education once the kid leaves school grounds.

From my experience many parents are just looking to survive a kid's childhood and teenage years intact. So was can call it a societal issue or whatever. Fact is that kids are studying less and less each year and SAT's have been standardized down to somewhat easier questions. Very controversial, but my opinion mostly.

Even the best teacher can only inspire so much. The rest is up to the kid and how much reinforcement his or her household provides.

 

[Ferrus]

on the issue of citizens' rights to sue HMOs:

i agree with Ryan (see, I'm not always comin' atcha!)

Ryan has actually taken a conservative stance on this issue

usually it is the "conservatives" who are more protective of citizens' rights to seek damages at the state level...in this case, it is odd that "conservative" legislators and the president are AGAINST the citizens' right to sue medical providers in state court, without a cap on damages

 

[BO-CEPHUS]

My problem with the bill is that it allows people to sue their EMPLOYERS. If and when lawsuits arise, look for more companies to start dropping health coverage.

This bill and no other will solve our healthcare problems. You can think the government for HMO's even being able to treat their "customers" like shit. This is just more feel good politics in which will do nothing for the real problem.

Get the govt out of healtcare, privatize it and market competition will take care of the rest.

 

[Ferrus]

That's right, Bo

get the government out of healthcare...if someone wants to sue their healthcare provider (or employer as the case may be), let 'em

 

[Yellowbomber]

BUMP

 

[Warik]

usually it is the "conservatives" who are more protective of citizens' rights to seek damages at the state level...in this case, it is odd that "conservative" legislators and the president are AGAINST the citizens' right to sue medical providers in state court, without a cap on damages

There is not a cap on actual damages. If you are a victim of malpractice that results in $X of damage, the "conservatives" want you to be able to sue for $X + $500,000. The leftists, on the other hand, want you to be able to sue for $X + $5,000,000.

Five million ADDITIONAL damages. This is AFTER your medical bills and pain and suffering etc... have been paid for. An extra $5,000,000.... for nothing!?!?!??! That is insane.

They also want you to be able to sue your employer. Your employer was nice enough to offer you healthcare and now you're going to sue him? Don't be surprised if you go looking for a job in the next few years and the interviewer LAUGHS IN YOUR FACE when you say: "Don't I get some kind of health plan to...?"

-Warik

 

[Laserdude]

I personally have been malpracticed and could not get the bastards in court. About 8 Dr.'s conspired to deny the fact that I had a stroke 10 years ago. They said my
c-scan was negative and to call my Dr. in the morn. Wrong!

My bro called my Dr. and told him about it the next day and he said don't take him back there "they will fucking kill him."

So we picked up the c-scan film and took to another hospital, where it was correctly diagnosed.

If I ever, and I mean ever have some quack do this kind of shit again, I will no doubt kill him and maybe every one who moves with a white jacket with my .357 with 7 rounds per speed clip of which I have 4, and clean up the trash in the ER.

I will not wait for a court to deal with such scum. That is my Patient's Bill of Rights. I don't need a government to deal with this kind of b.s. I don't miss either as I am quite practiced at target shooting.

I detest Dr.'s to the max. Total shit heads. I am fortunate that I recovered, and so are the Dr.'s that screwed me or I would have made the headlines.

Enough said.

 

[GaryWary]

Re: OUCH!......I need to go to the DOCTOR..

They can't cure racism?