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on HCG and no big loads

Excidium28

New member
Im in my 3rd week of my post cycle. HCG at 5000IU a week (1500IU 3xWeek) 20mg Nolva ED, I was suppose to do 50mg clomid ED too but cant remember where i put the damn box.

This is the second post cycle I've ever done, and on my first one while I was on HCG I remember blowing BIG loads when I ejaculate, like your suppose to when your on HCG, and right now its the same as when I was not on HCG.

My buddy who is doing HCG for the first time is not getting big loads ether, and were using different brands HCG too, Im on Organon HCG and he is on GA labs.

Im thinking about getting a pregnancy test and testing the HCG to see if its good.
 
fpc4ever said:
well your incorrect usage of it might be the first problem.


Dude your a dick head. You post on all these questions with dumbass comments and dont even offer any help or advice. You repy in posts like we are all fucking stupid and your God.

Who fucking made you the ROID GURU of EF?
 
fpc4ever said:
well your incorrect usage of it might be the first problem.


And what is so incorrect about this usage? it can be done either sub c(Do I need explain what that means?) or IM. 5000/wk is the reccommended dosage for PCT.

If you arent gunna offer any advice go to C&C with your gay ass post.
 
HCG unraveled –

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that is used in place of LH to stimulate hormone production from the gonads.1 LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone. When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production.2-6,19 However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle. Though, we will learn that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand the most efficient way to use it. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate an hCG dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency.85,86 That is, testes desensitize when not presented with a sufficient LH signal. In men with normal LH levels and testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only ~250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu.2,11 (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above base line.12-18) So, if you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

To get an idea of how quickly testicular degeneration occurs from your average multi-AAS cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration.2,9,10 By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%.2-6 It should be mentioned that visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone.4 This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, testicular size may appear normal on a cycle, but the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly diminished.3-4

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids.8 In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size.7 Other studies with men using low dose steroid implants for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks.6

These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a cycle, increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG, estrogen will be increased disproportionately, which then causes further HPTA suppression while increasing the risk of gyno.11 For example, high doses of hCG are known to raise estradiol 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%.11 Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes12,13,19 (the last thing someone wants during recovery). While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a drug such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM. (covered in the next section)

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle. Based on studies with normal men using steroids, ~100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG.2 It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular degeneration occurs, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use.

Recap – For optimal preservation of testicular function during cycle, use 100iu hCG ED starting 3 days after your first AAS dose. Drop the hCG a week before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG a week after your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG a week before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even drop in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, making for a seamless recovery.

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a weekly shot of 500iu hCG, throughout the entire cycle. Beyond this dose, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

As an alternative to the on cycle hCG protocol, you could follow a plan based on modulation of the gonadotropin pulse generator.

Note: If following any of these protocols, hCG should NOT be used after the cycle.
 
I know that PP advocates using HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - with the cycle to keep lh - leutenizing hormone - elevations during cycle. SInce if the cycle last longer then 2 weeks , htpa suppression will kick in. Generally people use HCG the last week or so and let clomid + novaldex to restore hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . Since HCG at higher dosages does give elevate estrogenic side effects, it's good to use anti estrogens with it.

Anthony Roberts prefers to use Aromasin with HCG post cycle as it suicidally blocks aromatase enzyme. I haven't read his protocol to be honest.

But what I was going to say is that your use really depends on how you react to drugs based on blood tests. I would like to see some tests or information , but I think at certain dosages endogenous testosterone elevations are going to drop regardless. HCG itself can supress endogenous testosterone. The hypothalamus can detect elevated LH and thus add to the negative feedback loop. I think it should not be used for extended periods of time
 
Yes there is a few ways you can do HCG, Jenetic wrote a nice article about it a while ago in the PCT forum. I kind of wish I ran HCG through my whole cycle at 500IU EW, but didnt, im definitely gonna do it my next cycle and see how I recover after.

Last time I did a 6 month cycle and than did my HCG, Clomid, Nolva PCT and Recovered just fine. I got my blood work done right after cycle my test were at 140, after 6 week PCT they were at 420 and few months after that at 500+.

But I too agree with the theory that its better to keep your nuts alive and working the whole time than trying to raise them from the dead.

Im just worried that im not still shut down even after my 5000-6000IU EW HCG. Im gonna do my blood work in 3 weeks soon as Im done with PCT.
 
it's a sticky
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/post-steroid-cycle-therapy/post-cycle-therapy-376177.html

Jenetic says that HCG adiminstration is not affected by hpta suppression or androgen:estrogen ratios , so I'm not gonna agrue with that.


Excidium28 said:
Yes there is a few ways you can do HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , Jenetic wrote a nice article about it a while ago in the PCT - post cycle therapy - forum. I kind of wish I ran HCG through my whole cycle at 500IU EW, but didnt, im definitely gonna do it my next cycle and see how I recover after.

Last time I did a 6 month cycle and than did my HCG, Clomid, Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - PCT and Recovered just fine. I got my blood work done right after cycle my test were at 140, after 6 week PCT they were at 420 and few months after that at 500+.

But I too agree with the theory that its better to keep your nuts alive and working the whole time than trying to raise them from the dead.

Im just worried that im not still shut down even after my 5000-6000IU EW HCG. Im gonna do my blood work in 3 weeks soon as Im done with PCT.
 
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