okay my 24 week cycle

[stonecold54]

will be using a gram of test a week weeks 1-24
first four weeks dbol at 50 mg a day weeks 1-4
no orals weeks 4-8
weeks 8-18 deca 300 mg a week
weeks 12-16 winny 50 mg a day
finish with some test prop

will have the obvious shit, anti'es got them all, liver shit got that all, will check with the doc periodically, will try to eat clean. hardly any fat, no alcohol. train 3 to 4 times a week. this will be my 8 or 9th cycle. so anybody have negative or positive let me have it. I am excited though. will be starting around 190. I don't care about bloat, never have blood pressure problems. I might change the winny timing but not sure yet

 

[Athernigy]

I would run hcg somewhere in there and probably a longer clomid theraphy with armidex/liquidex.

-sk

 

[bebaumax]

24 weeks is a long cycle, and your body's going to adapt to all that test. This is one of those times where I don't recommend a "taper" per se, but rather that you cycle it down, then back up. There's no way you're going to be getting any gains off of 1g test in week 24. And there's no way you need that much to maintain your gains at that point. In a cycle this long, I'd do something like this (not exactly, I haven't sat down and figured it out):

Weeks 1-8, Test 750mg/wk
Weeks 9-12, Test 250mg/wk
Weeks 13-20, test 1g/wk
Weeks 21-24, Test 250mg/wk

I'm assuming you know your body's tolerance/need for test. Although, at 190lbs, I have to question the need for 1g test/wk. Doesn't seem like you need that much. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. I'd also cut that dbol to 30mg/day, and run it longer into the start of the cycle. It'll be easier for your liver to tolerate, and your gains will be more solid. Keep the winny until the end of the cycle, don't run it in the middle, us it to help solidify your gains near the end.

Running a cyle like this, you'll get massive and strong, but I like to keep in mind the fact that I want to keep most of those gains. What you have here is a design for gains that'll stop around week 16 at best, and as soon as you cut that gram of test/week, you'll lose them incredibly fast.
-B

 

[stonecold54]

thanks bebaumax, I will take into consideration to what you said. Now I will have to think about his for a couple of days. Karma to you bro.

 

[Mike P.T.]

I don't like the tapering you outlined for him. Keep it consistent. That way blood levels remain constant and growth can continue. You're saying you can't get gains from week 24? Hell yeah you can. Try telling that to pro bodybuilders who have been on forever. Even natural people. Are you saying that with our natural level of test(being much lower) we cannot gain after 6 months? Of course we can. Yeah you may not blow up as fast as you did within the first 3 months but you will still gain of course. It depends on your genetics though how much more due to how the body handles the anabolics. With proper training, diet, and rest you can continue to grow.

Other than the doseages being a bit much for me personally I like the cycle. Rather unorthodox the way things are mixed in there but stonecold you should definately gain well from that cycle.

 

[sauerbrauten]

Sounds very good but what type of test are you using. as you probibaly know becouse you will be using prop and winy towards the end IF you are using sust or cypo type long acters you should do prop or winy for 4 weeks or so past the 24 weeks. that would be 28 weeks mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm4 more weeks =)

ABout to start my 28- week cycle

 

[nuh_mizer]

IMO I would lower the test to 750/week and up the deca.

 

[bebaumax]

I don't like the tapering you outlined for him. Keep it consistent. That way blood levels remain constant and growth can continue. You're saying you can't get gains from week 24? Hell yeah you can. Try telling that to pro bodybuilders who have been on forever. Even natural people. Are you saying that with our natural level of test(being much lower) we cannot gain after 6 months? Of course we can. Yeah you may not blow up as fast as you did within the first 3 months but you will still gain of course. It depends on your genetics though how much more due to how the body handles the anabolics. With proper training, diet, and rest you can continue to grow.

Other than the doseages being a bit much for me personally I like the cycle. Rather unorthodox the way things are mixed in there but stonecold you should definately gain well from that cycle.

Mike, do you think the pro bodybuilders that have been on for years stay at one dosage, and never change? I hope not.

The purpose of lowering the dose is to re-accustom the body to a lower dose, but keep your strength/gains where they are. When you re-up the dose, you'll have a MUCH better reaction than were you to have just staid at one dose the entire time. Every single pro out there cycles up and down on dosages. What do you think they do, start at 500mg, go to 750, go to a gram, go to 2grams, 3 grams, etc.? Of course not!!!

Since this is a 6-mo cycle, it's a good idea to look at treating it like a forever-on cycle, and drop the doses for a bit.
-B

 

[nuh_mizer]

I think mike pt was disagreeing with going down to 250 then back up to 1g, then back down to 250.

 

[bebaumax]

I think mike pt was disagreeing with going down to 250 then back up to 1g, then back down to 250.

Well, as I said, my recommendation wasn't really set in stone. I can see where there might be concern there, but 250mg is above natural levels, and more than enough for maintenance. Most guys I know that run sust/test like this, would go 8 to 12 weeks at 500-750mg/wk. Then cut to 250mg/wk for 8 weeks, then just go back up. They make incredible gains, and never lose them. They can do this for 2.. 3.. 4 years. At the end, come off, and maybe lose 5 to 10lbs of size, and be strong, huge as all hell. It's all in the planning and understanding not only what you're doing but your own body.

It's really hard to give someone PRECISE advice on something like this without knowing them, their cycle past, how they train, their 2-year goals. You know what I mean? I was just recommending tha the not stay at one constant high test dose for 24 weeks. After that, he really needs to evaluate things on his own.

Thanks for pointing this out, bud, I didn't realize he might have taken those exact numbers literally.

-B

 

[Mike P.T.]

I think mike pt was disagreeing with going down to 250 then back up to 1g, then back down to 250.

Yeah. Too many fluctuations IMO. Unless of course you were replacing the test with something else to make up for it.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Most guys I know that run sust/test like this, would go 8 to 12 weeks at 500-750mg/wk. Then cut to 250mg/wk for 8 weeks, then just go back up. They make incredible gains, and never lose them. They can do this for 2.. 3.. 4 years. At the end, come off, and maybe lose 5 to 10lbs of size, and be strong, huge as all hell.

They can do this for 2-3-4 years and lose only 5-10 pounds? How would you know this? I highly doubt you know that many people or any at all who have done this exactly as you just wrote it. Not flaming you bro I just don't agree. You say "they" make incredible gains but in staying at 1 gram a week they are not going to make incredible gains. This makes no sense at all.

btw - pro's also lower doseages for either financial or health reasons during the offseason. Plus they are not getting ready for a show either when they really bump it up. They are just on a maintainance dose.

 

[bebaumax]

They can do this for 2-3-4 years and lose only 5-10 pounds? How would you know this? I highly doubt you know that many people or any at all who have done this exactly as you just wrote it. Not flaming you bro I just don't agree. You say "they" make incredible gains but in staying at 1 gram a week they are not going to make incredible gains. This makes no sense at all.

btw - pro's also lower doseages for either financial or health reasons during the offseason. Plus they are not getting ready for a show either when they really bump it up. They are just on a maintainance dose.

Yes, Mike, I personally know two guys who have been on, one for just over 2 years now, the other was on 3 years, and came off. He hardly lost a pound, but he said he went down about 7lbs (you couldn't tell, dude was a monster by then).

You're not understanding my point. If you keep pumping 1g test/wk in your system, your body WILL acclimate to it. This is not theory, it is fact. After a while, 1g test is 'maintenance' level, and anything less is not good enough. If you reduce that dosage after 8 - 12 weeks, but keep a relatively higher test level than your endogenous levels, your body will re-acclimate to that, and you can maintain your gains. Maintain for a while, then bump it up again.

There was a post on here about the "greatest thread ever" a while back that linked to another board where a pro explained his theories on this. Although I didn't agree with EXACTLY what he said (most people never will agree exactly), it was pretty well explained and drawn out.

I don't want to beat a dead horse. I've given the guy my opinion, as he said, he's going to think about things. That's all we're looking for here. Don't want to flame you in any way, bud. We might just have to agree to disagree on this one.
-B

 

[Mike P.T.]

Yes, Mike, I personally know two guys who have been on, one for just over 2 years now, the other was on 3 years, and came off. He hardly lost a pound, but he said he went down about 7lbs (you couldn't tell, dude was a monster by then).

You're not understanding my point. If you keep pumping 1g test/wk in your system, your body WILL acclimate to it. This is not theory, it is fact. After a while, 1g test is 'maintenance' level, and anything less is not good enough. If you reduce that dosage after 8 - 12 weeks, but keep a relatively higher test level than your endogenous levels, your body will re-acclimate to that, and you can maintain your gains. Maintain for a while, then bump it up again.

There was a post on here about the "greatest thread ever" a while back that linked to another board where a pro explained his theories on this. Although I didn't agree with EXACTLY what he said (most people never will agree exactly), it was pretty well explained and drawn out.

I don't want to beat a dead horse. I've given the guy my opinion, as he said, he's going to think about things. That's all we're looking for here. Don't want to flame you in any way, bud. We might just have to agree to disagree on this one.
-B

I hear you bro and don't get me wrong. It does make sense what you say to a degree too. At least you're not one of those, "well it works this way because I said so and since I'm big I know what I'm talking about." I still wouldn't drop the dose personally but if anything he will save some money your way and might get similar results with less overall side effects.

 

[bebaumax]

I hear you bro and don't get me wrong. It does make sense what you say to a degree too. At least you're not one of those, "well it works this way because I said so and since I'm big I know what I'm talking about." I still wouldn't drop the dose personally but if anything he will save some money your way and might get similar results with less overall side effects.

Very good point. I could be 80% wrong, as long as he doesn't LOSE gains while dropping the dose, he'll atleast save money and sides. Maybe a good compromise is to not go below 500mg/wk? Would you agree that should atLEAST maintain where he is, and when he re-ups, he'll continue with excellent gains?

stonecold, we're workin' hard for ya here, bro!

-B

 

[Mike P.T.]

Very good point. I could be 80% wrong, as long as he doesn't LOSE gains while dropping the dose, he'll atleast save money and sides. Maybe a good compromise is to not go below 500mg/wk? Would you agree that should atLEAST maintain where he is, and when he re-ups, he'll continue with excellent gains?



-B

That sounds good.

 

[stonecold54]

geeez

I guess I missed all the discussion while I was at work. I knew Mike was going to be in the discussion as I remember his post about long cycles. I will be using cyp and yeah I know it might get extended using prop another four weeks oh well my 28 week cycle. thanks for all the responses guys, I am excited for this one. I have gone back and forth so many times. but I will do it and see what happens.

 

[stonecold54]

bump for me
any other responses welcome