OK Conservative Buttholes -- Whaddya think of Kerry's speech?

[coverguy]

Yep.... America are responsible for Israel being in existense. I also heard they won the second world war. oh... actually some news just came in, that was after England fought the Nazis and weakened them for about 4 years. What about all the immigrants that America sent back to the nazi's? hmmmm. But, America still take credit for winning the war and freeing the world. God bless America.

Ohh, some new news just came.

Israeli people actually single handidly defeated the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Jordanians and all the rest of the arab countries in the middle east back in 1948. All the arabs were armed by the russians. We used tractors.
Look at a map. We repeated this again in 1967 and 1973. read up on some history. then tell me that America are responsible for our safe existense. What bullshit. Actually, America is one of the only reasons that Israel have not attacked syria and jordan in the past 20 years. If anything America are safegaurding the arabs, not the israelis.

Are you a redneck or something? I almost heard the accent in your stupid post.

You just continue to show your stupidity. As for World War II. Yeah, it was just a coincidence that we were involved. Before we got involved (you would now this if you were smart enough to read a damn history book) Germany controlled Europe all the way over to the Atlantic and had bombed the living hell out of England. England was physically incapable of launching an amphibious assault on Europe proper. It was also a fluke that we simultaneously took out the Japanese empire that had single-handedly taken over the entire South Pacific. So let me get this straight we were fighting in Europe, Africa and the South Pacific while still defending our home territory and fighting on the open seas. In every one of those areas the Allies were getting their ass kicked before we showed up. Some big coincidence.

News Flash - our military today is leaps and bounds better than it was then. It's many times better than yours as well. Who originally trained your army? Think hard! It was us! Who originally armed you? It was us!

As for redneck, i'm probably the farthest thing from a redneck. If you ever leave your wasteland of a country and visit a real developed country you'll begin to understand the difference. As for now, maybe you should just stick to avoiding car bombs and watching the history channel ... if you even have a tv.

 

[Delinquent]

You just continue to show your stupidity. As for World War II. Yeah, it was just a coincidence that we were involved. Before we got involved (you would now this if you were smart enough to read a damn history book) Germany controlled Europe all the way over to the Atlantic and had bombed the living hell out of England. England was physically incapable of launching an amphibious assault on Europe proper. It was also a fluke that we simultaneously took out the Japanese empire that had single-handedly taken over the entire South Pacific. So let me get this straight we were fighting in Europe, Africa and the South Pacific while still defending our home territory and fighting on the open seas. In every one of those areas the Allies were getting their ass kicked before we showed up. Some big coincidence.

News Flash - our military today is leaps and bounds better than it was then. It's many times better than yours as well. Who originally trained your army? Think hard! It was us! Who originally armed you? It was us!

As for redneck, i'm probably the farthest thing from a redneck. If you ever leave your wasteland of a country and visit a real developed country you'll begin to understand the difference. As for now, maybe you should just stick to avoiding car bombs and watching the history channel ... if you even have a tv.

Um actually the Soviets were beating the Germans just fine before the US invaded. At the time of D-Day, the Soviets were already with a couple hundred miles from Berlin. The Reichstag was taken way before the US got near Berlin. So to say the US play a major role in the defeat of the Axis, is wrong

Edit: of course they played a role in the victory but not as much as people think

 

[Allon]

This is all very true. As most of you know, an American soldier has never fought side by side with an Israeli.

it was US pressure that stopped Israel from seizing Cairo in the 1970s. Israel used to take a much more aggressive stance with terrorists, but it was actually president Reagan who called off the dogs on that. Israel is toned down in its responses because of US pressure. Left to their own devices, they would quickly overrun Arab opposition.

Israel was created by the US and UK. But it has sustained itself since inception.

Allon, I am surprised you are so against Bush, given that his actions will (if successful) strategically alter the climate of the Middle east

Definitely Bush actually did a lot of good for Israel, but that does not blind me to the fact that he is wacko.
All the good he did for Israel is so small compared to the way he fucked up the world in such a short time.

I will explain why I think post 9/11 American attitude is such a joke.

Up until then we were going through a fucking disgusting intifada (Palestinain uprising) here. People were being killed on both sides and a few years of short peace vanished and the bubble burst. At this point (before 9/11) here in Israel, a lot of people who were once left wing veered sharply to the right. Hence an arrogant fuck like sharon got voted in.
All people in Israel wanted was to use the power we posses to stop this like any other country surely would.
I would like to see how any government in the world would react to a bunch of people wearing masks throwing stones and molotov cocktails at your border police etc...
BUT, other countries America especially and the UN said firmly: Restraint! stop this from escalating! etc...

So our soldiers get kidnapped, busses explode, soldiers are forced to walk through palestinian streets where kids throw grendaes at them from windows, instead of the easy way out where we would of just declared that we are blowing up their whole city and they would have evacuated or whatever (This is something I am against being pretty far left but beleive me, the majority of the Israeli public felt this way at the time - in fact I remember real left people saying, the only way to stop them is to flatten RAMALAH, etc...)
Then the headlines were suddenly "AMERICA UNDER ATTACK" (9/11)
Then: "WAR ON TERROR"
Then: America invades afghanistan. eventually Iraq also.

What a joke.

One terror attack that should never have happened if one person in the USA had realized that planes are like huge missiles and should have security checks on passangers, and the whole world is either with america or against.

Yet we deal with far worse every day and yet we must restrain.

Fate caused Bush to be an ally to Israel. However, he is with Israel due to fate, due to circumstances. Not because his heart is with us. I bet he barely even knows where to find Israel on the map.

 

[coverguy]

Um actually the Soviets were beating the Germans just fine before the US invaded. At the time of D-Day, the Soviets were already with a couple hundred miles from Berlin. The Reichstag was taken way before the US got near Berlin. So to say the US play a major role in the defeat of the Axis, is wrong

Another person who needs to study more. When we attacked Russia was not pushing Germany back they were nearing the end of their "Scorched Earth" battles where they were falling back and leaving the Germans no supplies. They had actually just steadied, and upon the invasion in the West the Russians began to push forward. If it wasn't for the Ally (mostly US) landing in Normandy and subsequent push, Hitler would have redirected his units back towards the Russians and easily have stopped their advance. In fact, Germany had more troops committed to its Western front when we were advancing then they did to their East? Why, you might ask? Because Hitler regarded us a bigger threat? Why, you might ask again? Because we were better trained, better equipped and we had proven our merit during WWI.

Once again, I'll make the statement b/c it is not arguable ... We have the best military in the WORLD!

How do i know??

A) I'm in it.
B) I've trained and fought with foreign militaries.
C) We've proven our merit on the field of battle.

 

[The Wenis]

There are thousands of ways. You can:

a) look at newspapers from that year - newspaper website archives
b) search for the info on yahoo, google, etc...
c) www.federalreserve.gov --> economic data and statistics

there are others, but this is a good start. you have to love the internet .... thank you Al Gore!

why thank you, professor. i never would have guessed.

you do get that i was yanking his chain, right?

 

[Allon]

Another person who needs to study more. When we attacked Russia was not pushing Germany back they were nearing the end of their "Scorched Earth" battles where they were falling back and leaving the Germans no supplies. They had actually just steadied, and upon the invasion in the West the Russians began to push forward. If it wasn't for the Ally (mostly US) landing in Normandy and subsequent push, Hitler would have redirected his units back towards the Russians and easily have stopped their advance. In fact, Germany had more troops committed to its Western front when we were advancing then they did to their East? Why, you might ask? Because Hitler regarded us a bigger threat? Why, you might ask again? Because we were better trained, better equipped and we had proven our merit during WWI.

Once again, I'll make the statement b/c it is not arguable ... We have the best military in the WORLD!

How do i know??

A) I'm in it.
B) I've trained and fought with foreign militaries.
C) We've proven our merit on the field of battle.

Now I understand why you are so blind. You are an American soldier!
You must believe you are the best. It is the core of being a soldier no?
All I can say is that if you beleive that anyone, anywhere in the world is gratefull for your existense, then you are so so wrong.
American soldiers are usually arrogant. The lowest of the low of american society. Young americans that think the way to travel and see the world is to join the military. Think it will make them men etc...
America helped the allies win WW2. nothing more than that. They did this after Japan attacked them. So they didn't join the war to help everyone but were attacked and forced to join.
America is nothing more than a huge continent of a country that rules the world. American society is one of the most diseased and corrput societies in the world despite this title.
But, American soldier. I am sure this will not stop you from feeling pride next time you are standing to attention at 5AM singing the anthem.

THE JOB YOU DO DOES MATTER! (To the rich rulers of your country)

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

Now I understand why you are so blind. You are an American soldier!
You must believe you are the best. It is the core of being a soldier no?
All I can say is that if you beleive that anyone, anywhere in the world is gratefull for your existense, then you are so so wrong.
American soldiers are usually arrogant. The lowest of the low of american society. Young americans that think the way to travel and see the world is to join the military. Think it will make them men etc...
America helped the allies win WW2. nothing more than that. They did this after Japan attacked them. So they didn't join the war to help everyone but were attacked and forced to join.
America is nothing more than a huge continent of a country that rules the world. American society is one of the most diseased and corrput societies in the world despite this title.
But, American soldier. I am sure this will not stop you from feeling pride next time you are standing to attention at 5AM singing the anthem.

THE JOB YOU DO DOES MATTER! (To the rich rulers of your country)

okay, you really just crossed the line. now youre mixing what you can read in a book with acting like youre part of the american military and this is coming out of a memoire you wrote. Give me a break.

 

[wend]

Returning to the point of this thread (while this alleged history lesson is just fascinating...), I was pretty impressed by Kerry's speech. Not only was he eloquent, but he distinguished himself in some important ways from Bush. It's clear that he's got real values, and that he actually sees himself as a public servant rather than as an entitled member of the oligarchy.

Bush is a boob. Worse than that. He's a bad man. I never trust a coke addict, especially one that never really got help. He simply traded his dependence on cocaine and alcohol for the much bigger rush of power. What he and his cronies have done to roll back environmental legislation (legislation that's there not just to protect cute furry animals and majestic trees, but also our health) is enough in itself to make me vote for anyone but him. Add to that his track record of being, shall we say, honesty-challenged, and it's clear to me that the only thing he values is his overblown ego and the almighty dollar. And then there's the whole religion thing. When asked if he'd consulted his father about whether or not to proceed with the invasion of Iraq, he responded that he'd consulted a higher Father. Gag me with a frickin' pitchfork. I don't mind a leader who prays, but one who actually thinks he's hearing answers just creeps me out. The man is a nutball, and so are his cohorts.

Kerry, on the other hand, strikes me as a man raised to be honest, hardworking, and to put the needs of others before his own. He seemed very level-headed and logical. His speech also displayed an excellent use of language, which is valuable in a politician not only to make vote-winning speeches, but also to practice diplomacy (which, despite the current administration's disdain for it, is a necessary skill), something which, if Bush had known how to practice it, might have enabled us to oust Hussein (an act which I do believe was necessary) with the help and support of our usual allies, so that the war could have been both less hazardous for our troops and easier on the economy.

I'm a registered independent. Before watching his speech with Maj last night, I wasn't sure I could bring myself to vote at all (I knew I wasn't going to vote for Bush). But now I'm not only going to vote for Kerry, I might even volunteer to help out his campaign. I can't wait to watch Bush try to respond. I'm sure it'll be good for a chuckle.

 

[Testosterone boy]

As a republican, I thought Kerry's speech was great. I was impressed, and surprised. The last few months I have been re-thinking my support for GWB. I may swing kerry this time around...even though for the last 3.5 years I have been a bush supporter. I have become seriously dismayed by Bush in the last few months, and the fact that he makes us republicans look crazy doesn't help

Geez....I was a Republican state delegate something or other and precinct leader during the 2002 election.

Being a democrat is good for your heart as hate will be cleansed from your system.


Democrats are very nice people..........comparatively speaking of course.


All of our meanest guys are Bushbarians. Except Y Lifter...he ain't mean. But he works for a military contractor and it makes sense for him to be a Bushbarian.

 

[Allon]

You just continue to show your stupidity. As for World War II. Yeah, it was just a coincidence that we were involved. Before we got involved (you would now this if you were smart enough to read a damn history book) Germany controlled Europe all the way over to the Atlantic and had bombed the living hell out of England. England was physically incapable of launching an amphibious assault on Europe proper. It was also a fluke that we simultaneously took out the Japanese empire that had single-handedly taken over the entire South Pacific. So let me get this straight we were fighting in Europe, Africa and the South Pacific while still defending our home territory and fighting on the open seas. In every one of those areas the Allies were getting their ass kicked before we showed up. Some big coincidence.

News Flash - our military today is leaps and bounds better than it was then. It's many times better than yours as well. Who originally trained your army? Think hard! It was us! Who originally armed you? It was us!

As for redneck, i'm probably the farthest thing from a redneck. If you ever leave your wasteland of a country and visit a real developed country you'll begin to understand the difference. As for now, maybe you should just stick to avoiding car bombs and watching the history channel ... if you even have a tv.

If I ever leave my country?
Did you know that wherever you travel in the world (outside of America) you are more likely to meet an Israeli than an American?
In fact, Americans are very sparce anywhere you go due to the fact that most Americans think the whole world is America.
I have travelled all over (am off to Europe on Tuesday for a month and will be in Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Cheque rep, Hungary, Germany, France and UK.) and on my travels (been in all of western europe, africa, egypt, lived in UK for two years) I barely ever met Americans. I met Japanese, Chinese, Indians, South Americans, Europeans from all over, Israeli's are everywhere, but Americans were nowhere to be seen. WHY? America has such a large population of people that I would expect to see many of them among other travellers, I would expect there to be more Americans than anyone else.
WHY not? Where are they all? Answer that...

Also, Israel is actually very developed.
did you see the news this week?
Who developed the latest anti missile system and tested it on US turf?
Name the top five high tech countries in the world. Israel is one of them.
I could carry on but let me just add that all of this is from a country that is smaller than the state of New Jersey. Israel could fit into california 10 times. and two thirds of Israel is actually desert.
I wish Israel was less developed, it would be nice. But the truth is, it is techno city here.