NSAID's catabolic - NOT REALLY

[leonidas33]

There was a recent discussion on NSAID's and how they shouldn't be taken because they are catabolic.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle/magpage.php?artID=999409

In my humble opinion, one is better off taking these if they don't have a complete range of motion without them. I started taking them for chronic pain that got so bad that my range of motion began to really be limited. ONce on, it was like a god-send for the pain. I read how they are catabolic, freaked out and got off of them... the pain has returned and now my workouts are REALLY suffering. I am getting back on them.

 

[Mavafanculo]

good article

I've always read it as - NSAI reduce protein synthesis. I've never seen it stated as being catabolic.

But I would think tho that taking nsai's to mask pain brought on by certain excercize motions without evaluation isnt the best idea - pain is your body trying to tell you something usually . you should be evaluated by docs to determine what the problem is first - better safe than sorry

 

[leonidas33]

good article

I've always read it as - NSAI reduce protein synthesis. I've never seen it stated as being catabolic.

But I would think tho that taking nsai's to mask pain brought on by certain excercize motions without evaluation isnt the best idea - pain is your body trying to tell you something usually . you should be evaluated by docs to determine what the problem is first - better safe than sorry

agree... before doc wrote me a prescript for mobic, he did x-rays, basic strength tests, and diagnosed me with a bruised rotator, and recommended PT. Well I did self PT for a while with no luck before being put on the medicine. A friend of mine had same problem with shoulder and was sent to PT... said it didn't help at all... only thing that helped was mobic.

I have a followup appt with doc and will bring up the catabolic properties of the medicine to see what he says and also ask him if it is ok just to mask this pain and continue on without any further investigation into the pain..

will post the results of that appointment afterwards.

 

[leonidas33]

good article

I've always read it as - NSAI reduce protein synthesis. I've never seen it stated as being catabolic.

But I would think tho that taking nsai's to mask pain brought on by certain excercize motions without evaluation isnt the best idea - pain is your body trying to tell you something usually . you should be evaluated by docs to determine what the problem is first - better safe than sorry

yeah, it was Holy Ghost who said they were catabolic.

 

[Mavafanculo]

yeah, it was Holy Ghost who said they were catabolic.

hang on, I'm gonna take away all his Karma

 

[Mavafanculo]

btw I wish the scientists would come to a consensus on Fish Oil/Omega 3's with regard to impaired post-excercize protein synthesis from prostagladin reduction.

some writeups say they do reduce gains, others say they dont

 

[leonidas33]

btw I wish the scientists would come to a consensus on Fish Oil/Omega 3's with regard to impaired post-excercize protein synthesis from prostagladin reduction.

some writeups say they do reduce gains, others say they dont

I HOPE not... i eat a lot of salmon and pop a lot of fish oil pills.

 

[access]

btw I wish the scientists would come to a consensus on Fish Oil/Omega 3's with regard to impaired post-excercize protein synthesis from prostagladin reduction.

some writeups say they do reduce gains, others say they dont

Yeah, a defintive answer on this would be nice.

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

Well NSAIDS do impair healing. Inflamation is a natural response your body has to heal. The swelling a lot of times is your body sending what it needs to help heal the inury.

The logic behind NSAIDs not being good for BBing is because when you work out you tear muscle as we all know and taking motrin will impair the healing of the muscles you just tore up. Therefore it will inhibit gains. The theory makes since but i dont know if there is any science behind it.

Maybe someone can post up some studies to show either way.

 

[holy ghost]

Erin is 100% .

I have mixed opinions, All I know is when I was taking my corticosteriod injections and methylpredisolone orals I put on some weight and lost some strength

It did help my elbows immensely though

 

[Zyglamail]

In my humble opinion, one is better off taking these if they don't have a complete range of motion without them. I started taking them for chronic pain that got so bad that my range of motion began to really be limited. ONce on, it was like a god-send for the pain. I read how they are catabolic, freaked out and got off of them... the pain has returned and now my workouts are REALLY suffering. I am getting back on them.

If the pain is chronic there is a reason there is pain. NSAID's fix nothing, they mask the pain, allowing you to do further damage with less discomfort.

So, while they may only be minimally catabolic taking them to work through pain is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

If the pain is chronic there is a reason there is pain. NSAID's fix nothing, they mask the pain, allowing you to do further damage with less discomfort.

So, while they may only be minimally catabolic taking them to work through pain is a recipe for disaster.

Agreed. maybe you can tell him about that prolotherapy. that shit sounds like good stuff

 

[st8grad]

True but sometimes pain and inflammation is the body overreacting to something.

The human body is great but many times over-compensates for a problem which can actually make the problem worse. Like dry drowning or panic attacks for example.

good article

I've always read it as - NSAI reduce protein synthesis. I've never seen it stated as being catabolic.

But I would think tho that taking nsai's to mask pain brought on by certain excercize motions without evaluation isnt the best idea - pain is your body trying to tell you something usually . you should be evaluated by docs to determine what the problem is first - better safe than sorry

 

[leonidas33]

True but sometimes pain and inflammation is the body overreacting to something.

The human body is great but many times over-compensates for a problem which can actually make the problem worse. Like dry drowning or panic attacks for example.

interesting point

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

True but sometimes pain and inflammation is the body overreacting to something.

The human body is great but many times over-compensates for a problem which can actually make the problem worse. Like dry drowning or panic attacks for example.

Yea but arent those more psychological that cause physological symptoms as oppsed to inflammation being the exact opposite?

true although that inflamation like in the bronchials is the body over reacting to allergins and other things.

 

[b_light]

I think the major problem would be being on them for extended periods of time when the drug never leaves your system. Today for example, my quad hurts so fucking bad from my shot last night i could barely stand up, so not be able to walk for a day or pop some motrin and be able to walk for the day. Now if you were taking it around the clock and you always had the drug in your system i could see the logic of it being catabolic.

 

[st8grad]

Good point on the panic attack, but dry drowning is a physiological response where the esophagus and larynx spasm from just a small amount of fluid so that you won't aspirate it. But then it causes you not to be able to breath.

Allergic reactions are another good example then.

The body will react to certain injuries, but the pain/inflammation cycle can perpetuate itself and prolong healing. Also it can lead the person to not use the injured area which can delay healing or cause it not to heal correctly at all.

If you think of knee replacements in this day and age, they have you walking the next day after surgery. It hurts, but you are not doing more damage, you are promoting healing and range of motion.

So it's critical to remain on the pain killers so that you can work through physical therapy to regain full use of your knee. Back in the day a person would limp for the rest of their lives. Much of that is due to "resting" the knee and what they thought was allowing it to heal.

So I guess you need to make the distinction are you using the NSAID to mask the pain so you can continue activity and heal or to mask the pain to continue activity and you are actually injuring yourself further.

That's were it is critical to determine or have a doctor determine the extent of the injury.

Yea but arent those more psychological that cause physological symptoms as oppsed to inflammation being the exact opposite?

true although that inflamation like in the bronchials is the body over reacting to allergins and other things.

 

[leonidas33]

So I guess you need to make the distinction are you using the NSAID to mask the pain so you can continue activity and heal or to mask the pain to continue activity and you are actually injuring yourself further.

That's were it is critical to determine or have a doctor determine the extent of the injury.

thats exactly what I will be asking my doctor on the 30th. Since he took x-rays and did an exam AND THEN put me on the MOBIC, I assume he wants to mask the pain to promote healing... but I really need to check up with him and see how long before I can come off the Mobic.

 

[st8grad]

Mobic is pretty good. My buddy used to work for Boehringer Ingelheim. Diclofenac is probably a little bit better with inflammation and pain relief, but you have to take it twice per day.

In the short term I really don't think it is that catabolic although I have seen the same studies you have.

The trade off might be that you are more catabolic on Mobic, but you can actually lift more weight because of decreased pain. Subsequently you might also be able to get back to the gym quicker because the pain after lifting is less.

thats exactly what I will be asking my doctor on the 30th. Since he took x-rays and did an exam AND THEN put me on the MOBIC, I assume he wants to mask the pain to promote healing... but I really need to check up with him and see how long before I can come off the Mobic.

 

[leonidas33]

Mobic is pretty good. My buddy used to work for Boehringer Ingelheim. Diclofenac is probably a little bit better with inflammation and pain relief, but you have to take it twice per day.

In the short term I really don't think it is that catabolic although I have seen the same studies you have.

The trade off might be that you are more catabolic on Mobic, but you can actually lift more weight because of decreased pain. Subsequently you might also be able to get back to the gym quicker because the pain after lifting is less.

i found out yesterday that the doc had me on 15mg of mobic a day... that is 1 pill twice daily... the recommended starting dose is 7.5mg once a day... a friend of mine is also taking mobic and he is a BIG sob... he is only taking once a day and says it works great... I am definately going to cut back to once a day despite docs orders and see how it works...

 

[st8grad]

Your doc is right though. All the orthopods do twice the starting dose, twice daily.

i found out yesterday that the doc had me on 15mg of mobic a day... that is 1 pill twice daily... the recommended starting dose is 7.5mg once a day... a friend of mine is also taking mobic and he is a BIG sob... he is only taking once a day and says it works great... I am definately going to cut back to once a day despite docs orders and see how it works...

 

[leonidas33]

Your doc is right though. All the orthopods do twice the starting dose, twice daily.

really? why?