Nolvadex and Lipids

[Smokescreen]

Who here takes Nolvadex just to help out on their lipids? IS taking Nolvadex while on any anti-a's or anti-e's worth taking to increase HDL??? Or is there another better method of doing this?

OH! What about Nolvadex lowering IGF-1 output? I keep reading it does. I also read it does but nothing major blah blah blah. So which one is it?

 

[satchboogie]

word is that nolvadex DOES indeed lower IGF1.

if you can afford a proper anti=e go with aromasin stacked with provirpn for hardness.

 

[Smokescreen]

word is that nolvadex DOES indeed lower IGF1.

if you can afford a proper anti=e go with aromasin stacked with provirpn for hardness.

Cool! But what about lipids? HDL in particular? We need Estro to keep that HDL high. Without were fucked! So how do we keep estro down to look hard and lean but without lowering that HDL so damn low????????

 

[Güclü_oglan]

Nolvadex decreases the IGF-1 from the liver wich has in numerous studies been proven not the be what we use for building muscletissue (one of the studies were made by a pretty big institute in sweden) so don't worry about it bro

Also worth knowing is that estrogen influences fuel source selection, it burns more fat instead of glucose when doing cardio wich is optimal when cutting. I can back this up with studies from no one less then Michael Hoffman if you're interested

 

[bw1]

Cool! But what about lipids? HDL in particular? We need Estro to keep that HDL high. Without were fucked! So how do we keep estro down to look hard and lean but without lowering that HDL so damn low????????

Aromasin will not effect your lipids. Here is a good article I got some time back, don't ask me where I can't remeber for sure. But, it is a good read:

The Best Anti-E

theres been a lot of talk on other boards about this lately, and a lot of bad information thrown out as well. i wanted to share the good info.

somone keeps posting how letrozole is the strongest and doesnt negatively affect cholesterol. this is not true. letrozole is NOT the strongest and it DOES negative affect cholesterol/lipid profile in a bad way.

aromasin(exemestane) is the best. this is why

both arimidex/ldex/anastrozole and femara/letrozole hurt your cholesterol. the way these 2 anti e's work is they inhibit the aromatase enzyme. by inhibiting the enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen, you reduce or even come close to eliminating estrogen production. we need some estrogen to be healthy. the major drawback to this is without estrogen, your lipid profile gets fucked.

exemestane works differently. it does not stop the body from producing estrogen. rather, it makes it so the estrogen is unable to bind to receptors by deactivating the binding enzyme. if the estrogen cannot bind, you simply will not get bloated or get gyno. the estrogen is crippled due to exemestane. however, since the estrogen is still floating around, it will not negatively affect your lipid/cholesterol profile.

anastrozole doesnt cause a rebound effect, and neither does exemestane, but letrozole does. this means after you stop the letrozole, your estrogen rebounds and goes pretty high for a while, eventually it normalizes. you can avoid this by tapering your letro dose down before stopping it, but that is a pain in the ass. higher than normal can mess many things up post cycle when you stop. since the hpta has a feedback loop is primarily controlled by estrogen, high estrogen will tell your hpta to produce less testosterone, because it thinks the high estrogen is caused by too much testosterone. this is fact. now post cycle, dont we want to raise our test levels, not lower them? of course! so rebounds are bad. if you use letro taper the dose off to zero over a couple weeks.

fyi- nolvadex(tamoxifen) is a SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). this means on certain tissue it can act antagonisticaly or agonistically. in the case of lipid profiles, it acts agonistically. so, running tamoxifen with your anti e's will IMPROVE your cholesterol profile even if not on cycle or using any gear or other anti e's. its just plain good for cholesterol.

one thing to keep in mind though when runing tamoxifen with letro. letro reduces blood levels of tamoxifen by over 50%. a study showed 2.5mg letro ed made nolva levels drop to 40% of what they were before adding letro. this does not mean you cant use tamoxifen with letro, it just means you need to use more, about double. 20mg of nolva will act like 8mg if running letro. so make sure you are aware of this because you will need to buy more nolva to compensate. this does not happen when mixing tamoxifen with anastrozole or exemestane, it only hppens with letro.

also, many people and myself experince a reduction of libido on letro. this doesnt happen w/ ldex or exmestane as far as i know, and in my own experience, and ive run all 3 quite a bit.

the best combo IS exemestane and tamoxifen together. your cholesterol will be as good as can be considering your on a cycle of steroids. the dose of aromasin will vary depending on the users needs and how much aromatizing gear is being taken. usually 10-25mg ed works well. run 10mg ed nolva to improve your cholesterol.

second best combo i feel is anastrozole(ldex) and tamoxifen. ldex dose ranges from usually .15mg ed to 1mg ed. run 10mg nolva ed to improve cholesterol.

thierd best is letro and nolvadex. letro doses usually range from 1-2.5mg ed. run 20mg ed nolva to improve cholesterol w/ letro.

you do not need to run nolva with any of these 3, i do recomend it though as it will improve cholesterol compared to using the anti e's alone without nolva.

so in order of strength, on a dose per dose basis(not mg per mg) aromasin is def the strognest, next is letro, and then ldex.

 

[Smokescreen]

Aromasin will not effect your lipids. Here is a good article I got some time back, don't ask me where I can't remeber for sure. But, it is a good read:

The Best Anti-E

theres been a lot of talk on other boards about this lately, and a lot of bad information thrown out as well. i wanted to share the good info.

somone keeps posting how letrozole is the strongest and doesnt negatively affect cholesterol. this is not true. letrozole is NOT the strongest and it DOES negative affect cholesterol/lipid profile in a bad way.

aromasin(exemestane) is the best. this is why

both arimidex/ldex/anastrozole and femara/letrozole hurt your cholesterol. the way these 2 anti e's work is they inhibit the aromatase enzyme. by inhibiting the enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen, you reduce or even come close to eliminating estrogen production. we need some estrogen to be healthy. the major drawback to this is without estrogen, your lipid profile gets fucked.

exemestane works differently. it does not stop the body from producing estrogen. rather, it makes it so the estrogen is unable to bind to receptors by deactivating the binding enzyme. if the estrogen cannot bind, you simply will not get bloated or get gyno. the estrogen is crippled due to exemestane. however, since the estrogen is still floating around, it will not negatively affect your lipid/cholesterol profile.

anastrozole doesnt cause a rebound effect, and neither does exemestane, but letrozole does. this means after you stop the letrozole, your estrogen rebounds and goes pretty high for a while, eventually it normalizes. you can avoid this by tapering your letro dose down before stopping it, but that is a pain in the ass. higher than normal can mess many things up post cycle when you stop. since the hpta has a feedback loop is primarily controlled by estrogen, high estrogen will tell your hpta to produce less testosterone, because it thinks the high estrogen is caused by too much testosterone. this is fact. now post cycle, dont we want to raise our test levels, not lower them? of course! so rebounds are bad. if you use letro taper the dose off to zero over a couple weeks.

fyi- nolvadex(tamoxifen) is a SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). this means on certain tissue it can act antagonisticaly or agonistically. in the case of lipid profiles, it acts agonistically. so, running tamoxifen with your anti e's will IMPROVE your cholesterol profile even if not on cycle or using any gear or other anti e's. its just plain good for cholesterol.

one thing to keep in mind though when runing tamoxifen with letro. letro reduces blood levels of tamoxifen by over 50%. a study showed 2.5mg letro ed made nolva levels drop to 40% of what they were before adding letro. this does not mean you cant use tamoxifen with letro, it just means you need to use more, about double. 20mg of nolva will act like 8mg if running letro. so make sure you are aware of this because you will need to buy more nolva to compensate. this does not happen when mixing tamoxifen with anastrozole or exemestane, it only hppens with letro.

also, many people and myself experince a reduction of libido on letro. this doesnt happen w/ ldex or exmestane as far as i know, and in my own experience, and ive run all 3 quite a bit.

the best combo IS exemestane and tamoxifen together. your cholesterol will be as good as can be considering your on a cycle of steroids. the dose of aromasin will vary depending on the users needs and how much aromatizing gear is being taken. usually 10-25mg ed works well. run 10mg ed nolva to improve your cholesterol.

second best combo i feel is anastrozole(ldex) and tamoxifen. ldex dose ranges from usually .15mg ed to 1mg ed. run 10mg nolva ed to improve cholesterol.

thierd best is letro and nolvadex. letro doses usually range from 1-2.5mg ed. run 20mg ed nolva to improve cholesterol w/ letro.

you do not need to run nolva with any of these 3, i do recomend it though as it will improve cholesterol compared to using the anti e's alone without nolva.

so in order of strength, on a dose per dose basis(not mg per mg) aromasin is def the strognest, next is letro, and then ldex.

But you keep mentioning Nolva over and over again. And I just DO NOT like the fact that Nolva lowers IGF-1 output. GH tells the liver to produce IGF-1. And I am on GH HRT for life. 1ius per day ED. So if I take my 1ius with Nolva. Then my liver will produce LESS IGF-1!!! This is NOT good!

I was thinking of ONLY using Proviron during the summer with Test to control E. But of course this does lower my HDL. So I was thinking for the 6 months that it is NOT hot here in Miami....that I would NOT use any Proviron. In otherwords....just take my Test with no anti-e's. That way my body can make some E and raise my HDL. What do you think about this method???

 

[satchboogie]

do you really think 1iu per day hgh will do anything?

 

[Smokescreen]

do you really think 1iu per day hgh will do anything?

it brings my IGF-1 levels to 440! The range is between 118-492.

 

[bw1]

But you keep mentioning Nolva over and over again. And I just DO NOT like the fact that Nolva lowers IGF-1 output. GH tells the liver to produce IGF-1. And I am on GH HRT for life. 1ius per day ED. So if I take my 1ius with Nolva. Then my liver will produce LESS IGF-1!!! This is NOT good!

I was thinking of ONLY using Proviron during the summer with Test to control E. But of course this does lower my HDL. So I was thinking for the 6 months that it is NOT hot here in Miami....that I would NOT use any Proviron. In otherwords....just take my Test with no anti-e's. That way my body can make some E and raise my HDL. What do you think about this method???

You don't have to run the nolva

 

[will b huge]

Nolvadex decreases the IGF-1 from the liver wich has in numerous studies been proven not the be what we use for building muscletissue (one of the studies were made by a pretty big institute in sweden) so don't worry about it bro

Also worth knowing is that estrogen influences fuel source selection, it burns more fat instead of glucose when doing cardio wich is optimal when cutting. I can back this up with studies from no one less then Michael Hoffman if you're interested

Yes, Jenetic told me that Nolva increases IGF binding proteins (decrease IGF-1)...so Nolva wouldn't be the most optimal with HGH........but then I did a ton of research and ALMOST EVERYTHING tends to agree with GUCLU above to NOT HAVE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECT ON RUNNING HGH W/ NOLVA.......

Secondly, Nolva DOES NOT prevent Estrogen from continuing to be made in your body like A-dex, etc....Nolva simply attaches and atagonizes certain tissues like the breast, etc.....and prevents further estrogen from building there...doesnt have anything to do with the body producing more......

Thirdly, I've seen great articles and reviews for helping BOTH HDL and LDL tremendously for POLICOSANOL (spelling???)....check it out...its cheap anyways.......

Lastly, if you are running TEST---I think you should definitely have some AROMASIN if not NOLVA sitting on the shelf just in case.........

CARTH---sounds like your good with HGH, TEST, AROMASIN and good cholesterol........(might be a good plan too bro)

 

[will b huge]

But you keep mentioning Nolva over and over again. And I just DO NOT like the fact that Nolva lowers IGF-1 output. GH tells the liver to produce IGF-1. And I am on GH HRT for life. 1ius per day ED. So if I take my 1ius with Nolva. Then my liver will produce LESS IGF-1!!! This is NOT good!

I was thinking of ONLY using Proviron during the summer with Test to control E. But of course this does lower my HDL. So I was thinking for the 6 months that it is NOT hot here in Miami....that I would NOT use any Proviron. In otherwords....just take my Test with no anti-e's. That way my body can make some E and raise my HDL. What do you think about this method???

Carth, Here ya go...I found the most simplistic explanation:

Nolvadex affecting IGF-1 deal was taken from breast cancer patients, where they already have abnormally high IGF-1 production in mammary fat pads, so nolva is ceasing the production of IGF-1 at the breast, which lowers serum IGF-1 levels. the main thing we need to be concerned with is IGF-1 expressed within muscle, which nolva doesn't affect.


That was the easiest, the others were page long......

 

[satchboogie]

CARTH...

are you taking proviron with your hgh/test?

 

[Smokescreen]

CARTH...

are you taking proviron with your hgh/test?

250test
1iu of GH

these are my HRT doses

And I do take 50mgs of proviron ED.

 

[satchboogie]

250test
1iu of GH

these are my HRT doses

And I do take 50mgs of proviron ED.

and even with 50mg provi per day you stil have issues?

 

[Smokescreen]

My HDL tends to come out low. Not tooooo low. But still a tad low. It worries me.

 

[Tux]

Take Policosanol, and the Nolva won't hurt you. It's not going to lower your IGF levels any noticeable amount. If it does, I'll pay for your bloodwork! Unless you take like 80-100mg/day of nolva lol. Take 10-20mg/day of nolva with your aromasin, proviron, test, GH, policosanol. See what your lipids look like in a month.

 

[Smokescreen]

Take Policosanol, and the Nolva won't hurt you. It's not going to lower your IGF levels any noticeable amount. If it does, I'll pay for your bloodwork! Unless you take like 80-100mg/day of nolva lol. Take 10-20mg/day of nolva with your aromasin, proviron, test, GH, policosanol. See what your lipids look like in a month.

Tux, I only get tested for IGF-1 levels twice a year! And its ordered by the Doc. And if its something that I want tested out myself. It is going to cost a lot of $$$$!!!! If studies show that Nolva decrease IGF-1 output, well...I do NOT want to use Nolva for shit!

Policosanol? You think this stuff will really work? I think I told you one time that I went to the store and they were selling this stuff. But I looked at the ingredients and it said that it contained something blah blah estrogen! I think! Something like that. Estrogen?! FUCK THAT!!!

 

[bw1]

My HDL tends to come out low. Not tooooo low. But still a tad low. It worries me.

Maybe it's the ice cream

 

[Güclü_oglan]

Tux, I only get tested for IGF-1 levels twice a year! And its ordered by the Doc. And if its something that I want tested out myself. It is going to cost a lot of $$$$!!!! If studies show that Nolva decrease IGF-1 output, well...I do NOT want to use Nolva for shit!

Policosanol? You think this stuff will really work? I think I told you one time that I went to the store and they were selling this stuff. But I looked at the ingredients and it said that it contained something blah blah estrogen! I think! Something like that. Estrogen?! FUCK THAT!!!

hey bro as i said earlier, liverproduced IGF-1 (wich is the values nolvadex decreases) has not been proven to have anything to do with anabolism, matter of a fact it was tried on pigs (who have a similiar feedbacksystem as a human) where the liverproduced igf-1 turned out to be catabolic... so don't worry about it

 

[Smokescreen]

hey bro as i said earlier, liverproduced IGF-1 (wich is the values nolvadex decreases) has not been proven to have anything to do with anabolism, matter of a fact it was tried on pigs (who have a similiar feedbacksystem as a human) where the liverproduced igf-1 turned out to be catabolic... so don't worry about it

Huh?! Not so concerend about muscle. It also has to do with my mental well-being. I became extremely depressed after I became GH deficient. I mean VERY VERY VERY DEPRESSED! And no anti-depressants worked. GH is the only thing that gets me back to living a normal life. My IGF-1 levels MUST be high at all times!

 

[Tux]

Carth, I said get your CHOLESTEROL values checked, not IGF levels. Cholesterol check is cheap as hell. The policosanol I picked up was at walmart, 150 softgels for like 5 or 6 bucks, and there was nothing remotely estrogenic or female-hormone related in the ingredient list. Even if there were, it's such tiny amounts it won't do anything bad to you. Also, like Guclu oglan said, his post stated that nolva decreased the amount of IGF your LIVER puts out NATURALLY. You're taking exogenous GH, which will in turn produce exogenous IGF... nolva will have no effect on that, it only effects production from the liver, it doesn't somehow destroy IGF once it's formed already. So yes, I think policosanol is worth a shot, it HAS worked for me and many others, niacin(non-flush) also if you're not on 17aa's, nolvadex won't effect your exogenous IGF-1 from your exogenous GH injections, and you worry too damn much. I mean come on, you live in a freakin' mansion, with one of the hottest women I've seen willing to ride you WHILE you eat ice cream... who the HELL has much to worry about then lol?

 

[Smokescreen]

Carth, I said get your CHOLESTEROL values checked, not IGF levels. Cholesterol check is cheap as hell. The policosanol I picked up was at walmart, 150 softgels for like 5 or 6 bucks, and there was nothing remotely estrogenic or female-hormone related in the ingredient list. Even if there were, it's such tiny amounts it won't do anything bad to you. Also, like Guclu oglan said, his post stated that nolva decreased the amount of IGF your LIVER puts out NATURALLY. You're taking exogenous GH, which will in turn produce exogenous IGF... nolva will have no effect on that, it only effects production from the liver, it doesn't somehow destroy IGF once it's formed already. So yes, I think policosanol is worth a shot, it HAS worked for me and many others, niacin(non-flush) also if you're not on 17aa's, nolvadex won't effect your exogenous IGF-1 from your exogenous GH injections, and you worry too damn much. I mean come on, you live in a freakin' mansion, with one of the hottest women I've seen willing to ride you WHILE you eat ice cream... who the HELL has much to worry about then lol?

I worry about my health Tuxxy. And I worry about my little girls losing their daddy because of a heart attack. My doc told me this. He said that one I take my 1iu of GH, the GH then tells the liver to produce IGF-1.

So! If Nolva decreases IGF-1 output.....then wouldn't that mean that the 1iu of GH I take do its job. But then the fucking Nolva will tell the liver......NO bro! You aint' making IGF-1 because I'm NOLVADEX!! And I"M NOT GOING TO LET YOU MAKE IGF-1!!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!